1991 HDJ81 (1HDT) No Crank/Start Issue (1 Viewer)

[SpeedPls]

Went to start my Land Cruiser about a week ago and it wouldn't even crank over for me. It was cold out, so I thought maybe it just needed a jump, but still wouldn't crank even with jumper cables to another car. The 12V to 24V converter relay clicks, but the starter makes no attempt to turnover the engine. Leading up to this the truck was running fine, and starting instantly when turning the key since replacing the batteries about a month ago. I'm fairly new to these trucks and not super knowledgeable with electrical issues, so I am hoping someone might have some ideas for me.


Items tested:
1)Tried jump starting with jumper cables, no luck

2) Batteries both reading 12.4ish volts on my cheap multimeter. They are brand new as of a month ago.

3) Checked continuity of the fuseable links, they seem fine

4) Can feel/hear the 12V to 24V voltage converter relay click when trying to start the car - so I assume that working

5) Tested voltage at the Starter itself:

• Have 12V constant at the bottom post of the starter (terminal 30?)
• Don't seem to have 12V at little plug at bottom of starter (terminal 50?) when attempting to start car
• Don't seem to have any voltage at top post of starter (Terminal C?) when attempting to start car

6) Pulled apart the starter relay and visually confirmed that it is not attempting to make contact when turning the key. When manually closing the relay, the starter clicked, but didn’t turn over the engine.

7) I tried jumping the positive terminal of the battery to terminal 50, but didn’t get much action expect some sparks.

8) Confirmed my starter relay is good. Pulled mine out of the trouble truck and put it in another hdj81 and it makes contact and started the other truck fine.

9) I pulled my washer fluid reservoir out and inspected plugs underneath it after reading some threads about corrosion issues causing no crank situations for others – they looked fine though.

10) Took a general look at fuses and didn’t find anything that looked burnt out. What fuses specifically are involved with the start sequence?

I think the main discovery of my trouble shooting so far is that the starter relay doesn’t seem to close when attempting to start the truck which indicates an issue with the signal wire to that relay (Ignition? Neutral safety switch?), but then I am confused as to why the starter wouldn’t turn over the engine when trying to manually close the relay or when trying to go direct with 12V to terminal 50.

Any ideas?

 

[akjerry]

Went to start my Land Cruiser about a week ago and it wouldn't even crank over for me. It was cold out, so I thought maybe it just needed a jump, but still wouldn't crank even with jumper cables to another car. The 12V to 24V converter relay clicks, but the starter makes no attempt to turnover the engine. Leading up to this the truck was running fine, and starting instantly when turning the key since replacing the batteries about a month ago. I'm fairly new to these trucks and not super knowledgeable with electrical issues, so I am hoping someone might have some ideas for me.


Items tested:
1)Tried jump starting with jumper cables, no luck

2) Batteries both reading 12.4ish volts on my cheap multimeter. They are brand new as of a month ago.

3) Checked continuity of the fuseable links, they seem fine

4) Can feel/hear the 12V to 24V voltage converter relay click when trying to start the car - so I assume that working

5) Tested voltage at the Starter itself:

• Have 12V constant at the bottom post of the starter (terminal 30?)
• Don't seem to have 12V at little plug at bottom of starter (terminal 50?) when attempting to start car
• Don't seem to have any voltage at top post of starter (Terminal C?) when attempting to start car

6) Pulled apart the starter relay and visually confirmed that it is not attempting to make contact when turning the key. When manually closing the relay, the starter clicked, but didn’t turn over the engine.

7) I tried jumping the positive terminal of the battery to terminal 50, but didn’t get much action expect some sparks.

8) Confirmed my starter relay is good. Pulled mine out of the trouble truck and put it in another hdj81 and it makes contact and started the other truck fine.

9) I pulled my washer fluid reservoir out and inspected plugs underneath it after reading some threads about corrosion issues causing no crank situations for others – they looked fine though.

10) Took a general look at fuses and didn’t find anything that looked burnt out. What fuses specifically are involved with the start sequence?

I think the main discovery of my trouble shooting so far is that the starter relay doesn’t seem to close when attempting to start the truck which indicates an issue with the signal wire to that relay (Ignition? Neutral safety switch?), but then I am confused as to why the starter wouldn’t turn over the engine when trying to manually close the relay or when trying to go direct with 12V to terminal 50.

Any ideas?

Try jiggling your shifter, it might be your kickdown cable needs adjusting.

 

[duece71]

Have you checked the Ground wire? Any shorts anywhere? With a 24 volt starter, there should be 24v at the starter correct? My HDJ81 hasn’t had any starter issues.

 

[SpeedPls]

Try jiggling your shifter, it might be your kickdown cable needs adjusting.

I did give that a go, but no luck unfortunately. Would there be a good way to check this visually?

Have you checked the Ground wire? Any shorts anywhere? With a 24 volt starter, there should be 24v at the starter correct? My HDJ81 hasn’t had any starter issues.

I have not double checked grounds yet. Got a pretty good dump of snow here and it's dead outside so my motivation to dig around out there is low right now.

I believe there should be 24V at the top post of the starter when cranking... but that doesn't seem to be the case for me.

 

[akjerry]

I did give that a go, but no luck unfortunately. Would there be a good way to check this visually?



I have not double checked grounds yet. Got a pretty good dump of snow here and it's dead outside so my motivation to dig around out there is low right now.

I believe there should be 24V at the top post of the starter when cranking... but that doesn't seem to be the case for me.

When cold mine won't try to start about half the time until I turn the ignition on, step on the brake which allows the shifter to move then it will start every time in neutral or park which means that cable is out of adjustment. I don't know about visual but a mechanic would.

 

[mudgudgeon]

If the 12-24 volt relay is clicking when. You turn the key, you're getting a START signal to it.

When was the last time the car was run?

Do you see battery voltage drop when the key is turned to START?
12.4 volts at rest is marginal.
If voltage on either battery drops below 11.5 ish volts when you try to start, you may have a battery issue, and not enough current to pull the 12-24v solenoid all the way into 24 volt START position

 

[SpeedPls]

When cold mine won't try to start about half the time until I turn the ignition on, step on the brake which allows the shifter to move then it will start every time in neutral or park which means that cable is out of adjustment. I don't know about visual but a mechanic would.

Interesting. Thanks for the tip!

If the 12-24 volt relay is clicking when. You turn the key, you're getting a START signal to it.

When was the last time the car was run?

Do you see battery voltage drop when the key is turned to START?
12.4 volts at rest is marginal.
If voltage on either battery drops below 11.5 ish volts when you try to start, you may have a battery issue, and not enough current to pull the 12-24v solenoid all the way into 24 volt START position

Right, so that would indicate not a neutral safety switch/ignition signal issue then I guess

The car had last run 2 days prior to initially discovering it, and it had started up instantly prior. It's now been around 10 days. I would be surprised if it's a battery issue as they are so new, but I guess you never know. I just tested again and they were at 12.5V, down to 12.0ish with ignition on, and no significant change when attempting to start (11.9). I'll try swapping batteries to check.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Interesting. Thanks for the tip!



Right, so that would indicate not a neutral safety switch/ignition signal issue then I guess

The car had last run 2 days prior to initially discovering it, and it had started up instantly prior. It's now been around 10 days. I would be surprised if it's a battery issue as they are so new, but I guess you never know. I just tested again and they were at 12.5V, down to 12.0ish with ignition on, and no significant change when attempting to start (11.9). I'll try swapping batteries to check.

11.9v should be enough

 

[Squash]

Fusible link from PS battery.
This might light up with a test light, but not carry the load.
You can easily bump the starter by tapping the main feed at starter to the solenoid.
A short chunk of stout wire works well. In a pinch I have used two screwdrivers, just don't ground out on metal.
I also ran a fused line from the ds battery to the start relay with a momentary switch which allows me to start using 12 volts. This is my emergency system. Turns the engine over with or without the key. Momentary switch is mounted on the PS battery box plastic.

 

[SpeedPls]

11.9v should be enough

Yea, I think it should. I tried jumping from another cruiser today and with both batteries seeing 14V... still no action.

Fusible link from PS battery.
This might light up with a test light, but not carry the load.
You can easily bump the starter by tapping the main feed at starter to the solenoid.
A short chunk of stout wire works well. In a pinch I have used two screwdrivers, just don't ground out on metal.
I also ran a fused line from the ds battery to the start relay with a momentary switch which allows me to start using 12 volts. This is my emergency system. Turns the engine over with or without the key. Momentary switch is mounted on the PS battery box plastic.

Good point Squash. Upon further inspection it looks like my fusible link on the passenger side is a homemade unit and it pretty much disintegrated when I took it off again today. I borrowed a fusible link from another HDJ81, but still no luck. Then I made a temporary link until I can get a proper replacement, and no luck with that either.

I read about your momentary switch in another thread - I think that's a good idea. I tried to bump the starter as you suggested and got nothing but sparks. I only had some spare 14 gage speaker wire on hand though so maybe it's not enough to handle the current. I'm wondering if my starter is just pooched at this point.

I'm running out of free time to work on this thing and would like it back up and running for an upcoming trip, so I may throw in the towel and drop the truck off at a shop to deal with. Hate to give up, but I'm out of ideas beyond throwing a new starter at it.

 

[SpeedPls]

Well, mystery solved. Ended up being this broken component in the steering column/ignition system. Certainly an odd one.

Thanks to everyone who weighed in trying to help!