12v parallel batteries question (1 Viewer)

[ze_dragon]

hello,

i've got a 12v bj60, and living in cold québec, need good batteries.
my 2 cdn'tire group 27 are slowly dying after only 2 winters and i think good batteries _should_ last longer than that (am i wrong thinking that ?) i can crank ok down to -10C but any colder and they dont give enough power ...

so after doing quite a bit of reading here and elsewhere, i thought i would try the odyssey pc1500, since i use a winch and other accessories (pretty expensive, but if really they last longer, i will be happy ... i hate throwing out (cheap) stuff !)

my question is,
since i can't afford two of these batteries for now, i thought i would run one of the old ones with it. do you guys think it's a bad idea ? any premature wear doing so ? battery imbalance, overcharching one ...

(remember it's a parallel 12v system, not the 'identical batteries' 24v ... )

please discuss,
and thanks for educating me some more !

happy holidays all !


ps. 1st post here, but been lurking for a couple years, thanks group for all the help ! i've had my 83 bj60 for 3 and a half years now, put 100k km on it myself (it's coming close to 480k), 90% of it on veggie oil ... and loving it, bien sûr

 

[roscoFJ73]

Most of the aussie diesel landcruisers were sold with a single 12V battery,so no harm.
Just make sure the unused battery cables are disconnected or well insulated.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

First things first: AGM batteries don't work well in 24V Cruisers, and I don't think they work all that well in 12V Cruisers either, but certainly better than in 24V trucks. I would not bother with the really expensive batteries, and would rather stick with a top quality Group 27 battery such as an East Penn/Deka unit (Napa branded batteries in Canada are made my Deka).

Canadian Tire batteries are pretty average in quality unless you bought their premium batteries which are okay. I expect about three or four years is good battery life in a diesel. In very cold or hot weather, the battery life will be less.

You should have your charging system tested to make sure that your alternator is putting out a good clean power and that the voltage is good as well. You should also have the charge state of your batteries tested. If either is not up to par, then rectify the problems.

If you're making lots of short trips in the winter with all the accessories going, then you're going to have shortened battery life. It's not a bad idea to top up your batteries, with a good automatic battery charger, from time to time in the winter.

Slow cranking is not necessarily related to the batteries. You should ensure that your battery terminals and all the positive and ground connections are clean. Also check the connections at the alternator and the fusible links at the battery. A weak or old starter motor is often the cause of poor cranking. It's a good idea to change the starter solenoid contacts about every 100,000 kms or so.

Even in a parallel system the batteries should be as close to being the same as you can make them. I would suggest that you get two identically date coded batteries and give them a top up charge before putting them into service. A healthy battery will usually be drawn down by a weak battery over time, so having a system with mixed batteries is not a good idea.

For our cold weather here in Canada, it is best to have two good batteries, and not just one.

Hth,

John

 

[Greg_B]

Here is some reading for you. I am not a fan Optima's but would consider some of the new AGM offerings in a 12V setup...if you have the bucks to spend.

If you are close to the USA, or have someone there who can set you up...get some Sears Diehard Platinum, as they are a re-badged Odyssey: https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...-marine-odyssey-battery-store-shelf-life.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/208733-deep-cycle-batteries.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/ca-bc-coastal-cruisers/179564-gel-tech-batteries.html

https://forum.ih8mud.com/ca-bc-coastal-cruisers/208572-batteries.html

 

[vinny tetravino]

canuk tire premium quality with 9 year replacement warrenty are the best deal I get a couple of new batteries every 2-3 years free of charge for 2 different cruisers, I think I am on the 3rd pair in one and the 2nd pair in the other good deal though 10 batteries for the price of 4

 

[Stone]

I don't think getting batteries replaced under warranty frequently is a "good deal". It just means that they keep putting the same sh*tty stuff under your hood that will pooch and need replacing again in a couple of years.

A good deal is when you can put in a high quality product and trust it for five years or more with no issues. Peace of mind is the good deal in the purchase...IMO.

I get into the same discussions talking waders with other flyfishermen. We have a well known brand here called the Bare Blackwater breathables. Most comfortable fitting waders on the planet and excellent local customer service...but what good are those when your nuts are freezing because the waders leak like a sieve? And at what point does ruining a fishing trip negate excellent customer service?

To the OP...have you tried battery blanket warmers for the cold weather?

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Optimas are an AGM battery. AGM stands for "absorbed glass mat" which is a type of construction in which the electrolyte in the battery is not free to move around since it's movement is prevented by the fibreglass matting that is compressed between the plates of the battery.

AGMs have several advantages and several disadvantages. They are usually a high quality unit, with premium plate construction and are also a true maintenance-free design. The glass mat prevents free electrolyte from moving around and spilling. The downsides are that they have quite strict recharging parameters for both current and voltage that almost no car alternator (with an IC regulator and especially a mechanical regulator) can fulfill properly. When used in boats, especially sailing boats, special voltage regulators are used to properly charge and top up AGMs.

AGMs deep cycle quite well, depending on the construction offered.

AGMs can have a pretty sharp voltage and current drop after prolonged cranking, and some recovery time may be needed between extended cranking or winching sessions as they electrolyte does not move around the plates well and the plates take a few moments to recover.

Gel Cell batteries are different than AGMs. There is a common misconception that they are the same. Gelling the electrolyte is another way to provide for spill resistance and can prolong plate life due to reduced plate shedding in deep cycle batteries. Gel Cell batteries are not generally good for automotive starting applications. Gel cells also should have special voltage regulators to keep them charged properly.

The East Penn/Deka batteries as sold by Napa in Canada are a good offering. The AGM offered by Deka is quite good, and I consider it to be far better than an Optima. Still, I would not put one in my Land Cruiser for a starting application (and I buy a lot of batteries for my business and get decent pricing on these).

What to get: Deka / Napa (Canada) Group 27 batteries. They have anchor bonded plates (plates are set into resin in the bottom of the case) to reduce vibration damage.

Batteries that require replacing often, no matter what the warranty is, are not good batteries.

Be sure to check your alternator. Many Land Cruisers are running around with marginal brushes, which will cause loaded output problems. Also have the alternator/charging system tested to make sure that there are no diode or regulator issues showing up.



That's enough re-posting info about batteries for 2009.

~John

 

[Greg_B]

Right you are John, my error. Changed the post.

I don't know if its the change in manufacturing location, or the spiral tech, but I've had no good experience with Optimas. It was a little better in my BJ60 (12v parallel) however the damage may have been done already from being in the 24V truck. They are "very" sensative to charge differences. In a 24V application (two 12's in series) I would not use the AGM either.

In a 12V parallel setup (isolated with something like the RedArc system), and in a 3rd isolated battery setup I would use (and plan on using) something like the Odyssey.

Keeps on coming back to the basics though eh? Good quality manufacturer, tried and proven system for the starting battery (lead/acid) = reliability.

Here's a great info sheet comparing Wet Cell, Gel and AGM against each other with various factors: http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/1081.pdf

Don't repost...just link!

 

[roalco]

I just want to get back to Z_dragons original question;
DO NOT run different ( size, style model, manufacturer) batteries in a parallel circuit leg, such as the BJ60 has, stock (which was not one of their better ideas....). Over a very short time you can damage both of them, and get exceedingly poor performance. The batteries should always be replaced together too, so that the age and conditions are similar.
I agree with most of the other info, a high quality group 27 battery (with the correct post orientation for each side) is pretty much the best way top go.
I've been running red top optimas for about 4 years now, and getting acceptable performance overall, but they really don't like cold weather, I have battery blankets on them for below zero stuff. I'll go back to conventional batteries with more traditional charging requirements next replacement.

 

[ze_dragon]

well, thanks so much for all the answers, i feel i have here a definitive answer to my original question and even more ... thanks a lot for sharing !

in short,
battery blankets (and other very useful gizmos - like lower rad hose heater, trickle charger ...) are most of the nights not an option for me as the truck isn't sleeping near an AC outlet ... i must say it's coughing it's share on cold mornings ... a gentle pull on the throttle up to 1000 or 1200 RPM and a minute wait and it is usually good enough to go.

so, i'll stick w/ 2x group 27 for cranking ... i found out this morning that cdn'tire is going to replace these under warranty for now ... and next time i'll go for deka@napa !

... and i'm not going to use the AGM in parallel w/ my old lead/acid ... i'll work on setting up aux power in the truck for winching and other accessories on the AGM battery.

so ...

i'll search on here as well, but if you guys want to shortly share your ideas about options to hook up the two systems together like what brand of isolator (or i read about a DC-DC isolator charger, since the AGM battery seems picky on charging voltage and may not like the alternator's own regulator ...)

can we get RedArc here, or what are similar options for north america ...

anyways, offtopic, and will use SEARCH !

again, much thanks to you all for educating me !
and wherever you may be, winter/summer, have a good one

-nick

 

[Stone]

The Redarc Smart Start has been working flawlessly for my rig. Excellent setup for a dual battery system with some useful features.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

The Redarc Smart Start has been working flawlessly for my rig. Excellent setup for a dual battery system with some useful features.

I will be stocking these soon.
~John

 

[Stone]

I will be stocking these soon.
~John

That would be a good thing and something worthy of advertising widely. Even though I had excellent customer service from the folks in OZ, nothing beats a dealer closer to home.