12v Aust HJ75 Wilson switch install question

[Hillynath]

Hey guy's, I've put this in the 70 series section and I think I might have some more luck here so just a repost trying to get an answer


Hey folks, I've decided to install a "Wilson" switch into my 12v Australian hj75. I'm having starting difficulties and have done some test's, and I believe the timer is the issue. (especially after reading how so many people have issues with the timers and super glow systems)

Now from what I can understand. I'll need a set of 10.5v glow plugs.
Also I won't be using a controller so I'm just going to run power to a push button on the dash, to control a relay which will be sending 12v to the busbar.

From what I have read so far on various thread's this is all I need to do.

Now instead of mixing with the exisiting wiring I'm going to be using new. So am I able to simply remove everything connected to the busbar and run my 12v straight to the busbar therefore being the only thing connected to the glow plugs?

Some of this may not make sense as it's rather late

But my main question is simple. Can i remove everything and simply run 12v to the plug's in order for them to operate.

Thanks guys please excuse my ignorance!


This is how my current system looks exactly, (ignore all the part numbers)
Can I simply remove the green in order to isolate the plugs and just keep all the original wiring intact




And then add in what I have drawn up




Also the red 12v line in the first picture is what I intend on running from the relay like you see in pic number 2.

 

[doug720]

Yes! That is how I wired my 4Bd2 swap and it works great. I used a Ford starter relay, cheap, common and easy.

Doug

 

[Sixty's Guy]

Or you can leave the existing glow plugs and relays in place and just use the 'wilson' switch to power up the existing relay. This way you keep all of the existing wiring, you just take out the timer and replace it with the manual switch.

 

[Hillynath]

Or you can leave the existing glow plugs and relays in place and just use the 'wilson' switch to power up the existing relay. This way you keep all of the existing wiring, you just take out the timer and replace it with the manual switch.

Thanks for your reply, I must ask, do you mean simply running a 12v switched wire to relay 1 and dont touch anything else, that's it? or do you mean go and unplug the timer?

 

[Sixty's Guy]

I meant to unplug the timer. Going by your wiring schematic, you can remove the timer and replace it with a manual switch. Use the switch to power the main relay. This way your components, wiring and glow plugs all remain. You should be able to wire up the glow light so it comes on when you press the switch too.

Having said that, your 'new' wiring diagram will work, you are just creating a bit more work and $$ for yourself.

 

[Sixty's Guy]

BTW, are you sure it is the timer that is faulty? I had starting issues in that in was running rough on start up and blowing a lot of white smoke. I researched quite a bit and I think a lot of people use the wilson switch without fully diagnosing the problem.

I checked the voltage at the glow plugs and found only 6 volts initially and then 3 volts on the after glow. I tracked the low voltage back to the 'glow plug current sensor' (part #28631-68020) and the 'current sensor plate' (part #28624-68011). There was approximately a 3 volt drop across these. I couldn't locate aftermarket items, so had to go with genuine Toyota - the local Toyota dealer had them in stock.

I now have just under 10 volts at the glow plugs initially and around 4.5 volts on afterglow. Unexpectedly the first glow comes on for around double the time that it did before. End result is that it starts a lot better and the white smoke has almost completely dissapeared.

Current Sensor old vs new

Another pic of old vs new - the ols one was burnt out/corroded.

Sensor plate ends old vs new - easy to see where the voltage drop came from!

 

[Hillynath]

From what the diagram tell's me, the temperature sensor is connected to the timer. Would you happen to know whether this is linked to the rest of the vehicle's runnings? I suppose I could unplug and find out.

Apart from the rough starts, most of the time first start of the day it will start and run for probably 10-15 seconds and I'll hear a click behind the glovebox area (timer location) and the engine will cut out. Sometimes this will happen twice in a row and sometimes not at all. Which is what's leading me to the timer. ALSO I had a play tonight and unplugged the Temp sensor which I straight away noticed the pre heat light staying on for closer to 8 seconds instead of always 2-3 seconds. Started nicer too. Not perfect but better.

Early on in my diagnosis I pulled off the current sensor and the busbar linking all the glow plugs and cleaned up all the connections, they weren't as good as new but they weren't as bad as your old one. However that could be another cause.


Also as your state with the voltage you had. What plug's do you have ? (Voltage wise that is)
From what I remember (it's been a few weeks now) I'm getting 6-7v initially and then dropping to around 3.5, however from what I have read this is normal for HJ75's equipped with the Superglow setup and 6.5v plugs so I wasn't too worried about that. However you're right with voltage drop and good clean and solid connections are a must!


Learning as I go

 

[lostmarbles]

BTW, are you sure it is the timer that is faulty? I had starting issues in that in was running rough on start up and blowing a lot of white smoke. I researched quite a bit and I think a lot of people use the wilson switch without fully diagnosing the problem.
I checked the voltage at the glow plugs and found only 6 volts initially and then 3 volts on the after glow. I tracked the low voltage back to the 'glow plug current sensor' (part #28631-68020) and the 'current sensor plate' (part #28624-68011). There was approximately a 3 volt drop across these. I couldn't locate aftermarket items, so had to go with genuine Toyota - the local Toyota dealer had them in stock.
I now have just under 10 volts at the glow plugs initially and around 4.5 volts on afterglow. Unexpectedly the first glow comes on for around double the time that it did before. End result is that it starts a lot better and the white smoke has almost completely dissapeared.
Current Sensor old vs new
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/markcullen/60/DSCF4525.jpg
Another pic of old vs new - the ols one was burnt out/corroded.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/markcullen/60/DSCF4528.jpg
Sensor plate ends old vs new - easy to see where the voltage drop came from!..

Great post Mark! In fact, if you don't mind I'll keep it for use as a good example of how something simple (and easily fixed) often stops these superglow systems from working properly.

..Apart from the rough starts, most of the time first start of the day it will start and run for probably 10-15 seconds and I'll hear a click behind the glovebox area (timer location) and the engine will cut out.

Have you checked your oil pressure in case that's the cause of it cutting out? (Perhaps the antidrain valve on your oil filter is faulty and letting all the oil drain from the galleys back into your sump making it take too long to build oil pressure on the first start-up.)

...From what I remember (it's been a few weeks now) I'm getting 6-7v initially and then dropping to around 3.5, however from what I have read this is normal for HJ75's equipped with the Superglow setup and 6.5v plugs so I wasn't too worried about that. However you're right with voltage drop and good clean and solid connections are a must! ..

Voltage sounds too low to me and I think the plugs for 12V superglow should be nominal 6V (not 6.5V).

 

[Hillynath]

Hey Marbles, No I haven't checked the oil pressure. It seem's to pick up okay on a gauge once it's running. You theory behind the oil filter anti drain is interesting. However I changed it less than 1000km's ago which should mean a fine and dandy oil filter?


Ill have to recheck again. I haven't pulled the plug's to even have a look at their voltage, I just thought I read somewhere that Superglow uses 6.5 so that's where I pulled that one from

 

[bj40green]

Hi Guys,

I dont know if it helps but here is a diagram explaining the Super Glow System, with a Wilson Switch integrated.


This pic is too big (640Kb) for this forum (it's downsized 10x to fit the screen) but you can download the original pic here: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwGk8zcL34N4TGVzVnlBMU9yQ1E

Rudi

 

[Sixty's Guy]

Apart from the rough starts, most of the time first start of the day it will start and run for probably 10-15 seconds and I'll hear a click behind the glovebox area (timer location) and the engine will cut out. Sometimes this will happen twice in a row and sometimes not at all.

Have you checked your oil pressure in case that's the cause of it cutting out?

I reckon Marbles is on the money. There is a low oil pressure cut out on the 2H. Mine does it quite often (cuts out after 10 seconds or so after start up). When you start it (when it is cold) take note of whether the oil pressure gauge rises. If after 10 seconds or so it hasn't risen the engine will cut off. The click is the sound of the edic motor switching off - it uses an relay arm to the injector pump.

I found when I change the oil it won't do it for the first couple of weeks, then it is back to cutting off. On my old engine I replaced the oil temp sensor and low oil cutoff sensor, but these were not the issue. The engine simply wasn't building up pressure quick enough. It has done over 300k now, so I accept that's the way it is. My old engine did exactly the same thing also.

My glow plugs are 6 volt. With the initial glow the volatge to the glow plugs is higher than 6 volt, to get them really hot. After this initial glow (and your hear the click of the solenoid) the voltage lowers until the water temp heats up (sounds like you know this already).

 

[Sixty's Guy]

Great post Mark!

616 posts and that's the first compliment I ever get LOL!

 

[Hillynath]

From what I can tell it probably takes 5-10 before the oil pressure gauge rises up quite quick. I haven't noticed what it has done previously before it cut out. I'll be more observant of the gauge on startup now to see if I can pick it.


Also had another go with the temperature switch. Unplugged I am getting about 8 seconds at the pre heat light and with it plugged in about 2 seconds. Starts nicer with the longer pre heat also.

Should this be pointing me towards the timer?

 

[Sixty's Guy]

Just to complicate matters the glow light is not indicative of how long the initial glow is. I turn the key, watch for the volt meter to jump slightly, then I know that the initial glow is done. My light stays on for only a seconf or two. I still think your issue is oil pressure.

 

[Hillynath]

Okay that's fair enough, what would cause the light to stay on longer with the temp sender unplugged? Does that just give it a fixed time glow?

Have been driving it a bit today and it drives great, just starts funny Didn't cut out on me during any starts which was good, oil pressure whilst driving with different rpm's seems good.

had a go at pre heating 4 or 5 times instead of the 1 or 2 and it definitely starts a lot nicer!

 

[Sixty's Guy]

I don't know why the light would stay on longer, I just know the light isn't actually linked to the actual glow time.

The issue with the oil pressure is to do with how quickly it builds up pressure. The pressure when running may well be fine (like yours and mine), but the issue is how long it takes to build up. When it is slow to build up (ie. the gauge hasn't moved from 0), after the 5-10 seconds or so the edic motor will shut the egine down. It's a safety device to save the engine from running without oil (pressure).

 

[lostmarbles]

I remember Rockcrawler saying that the time delay (that allows an engine to start and build oil pressure before low-oil-pressure can trigger a shut-down) shortens over time inside the EDIC relay (aka Fuel Control Relay) and he posted a thread about how to fix this on his 1977 BJ40 as I recall.

(He has an electronics background as I recall too.)

 

[Hillynath]

Did a bit on it today, installed a dual battery isolator and whilst fiddling around the battery area I noticed the terminals and connections weren't in the best of shape. So I changed any buggered ring terminals and also put a new set of battery terminals on. Pulled off the ground to the block and cleaned that up too.

Instead of watching the pre heat light this time I watched the volt gauge for the rise after heating. (which was probably 6 or so second's longer than the light was on) and started reasonably well.

The oil pressure taking a while to build up I'm willing to accept and just not worry about at the moment


Sorry if this thread is going no where :|


I think I'm going to go to toyota and get a glow sensor and sensor plate like you did Sixties. Mine could probably use new one's of those.

 

[Sixty's Guy]

Good one mate, I hope I helped a bit without being too confusing!

 

[Hillynath]

Okay! 6 month's on and I'm back to continue my Glow discussion. A lot has happened since then.

I ended up dealing with it all for a while, until 1 day it started running rough (just all of a sudden) It broke a ring in cylinder 6. Which then jammed up and stuffed the piston and creating roughly a 10mm ring groove wonderful!

The old man was down to visit for a week so it was good timing to spend some time together in the shed again. So we tore it down and rebuilt it, replaced everything bearings, gasket, seal, hose and belt wise, also replaced the pistons, pre combs and injectors. Spent a day grinding and lapping valves and enjoying s***ty diesel oil!
Also my issue related to oil pressure and cutting the engine off no longer exists.

Anyway back to the pre heat stuff.

Whilst there I did what Sixties said and bought a new current sensor and sensor plate. As mine were about as good as his. It was starting better, but still not great. All I do is ignore the light and watch for the volt gauge jump.

So my problem has gotten worse over the last few weeks, It runs rough on startup and blows out some nice white smoke flumes. I have just been dealing with it until I got some time this afternoon to have a play around with it.

I took better note of things.

Checked voltage is read directly on top of a random glow plug. When I turn the key to glow, it starts off low around 4 volts and climbs to 7.5 in about 8 seconds. then clicks and drops to roughly 4 volts.
When I do this again directly after it gets to 7.5 much quicker, 2-3 seconds.
Once it clicks and drops to 4 volts, I start it.
straight away I read 3.8 volts continuously while the engine was just started and this lasted for 38 seconds. Then a click and 0 volts. Tried it 1 more time and the 3.8 volts while running only lasted 30 seconds.

The rough running probably lasts a minute or 2 and the white smoke hangs around during. Once a little warm it runs like a dream and there is no smoke

Because it got dark I ran out of time to take more notes on things. But this is what I have.

Just here for some more opinions