12ht 2h bellhousing issues in fj40

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Joined
May 26, 2010
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Hello all... hope i'm in the right section.


I'm just about ready to drop a 12ht into my 40 and noticed a slight problem.

I am using hj47 engine mount brackets to make things easier but upon removing the old 2f and measuring the distance from the engine mount hole to the back of the block i'm coming up 20mm short on the 12ht.

I have a 2h bellhousing and sandwitch plate off an hj75 and this is another 10mm short compared to the 2f bellhousing.

This means my gearbox is going to come forward approx 30mm giving me tailshaft issues. i.e lenghten/shorten.

Is there another bellhousing slightly longer to take up the slack? Maybe off a hj47? Or do i just have to eat s*** and deal with it?

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Set the engine further rearward.

The 12HT is a 2H in wolf's clothing - same block and peripherals. Don't expect the 12HT to line up in the mounting holes for a 2F.

A 2H bellhousing is a 2H bellhousing. They won't change from model to model in length.


~John
 
There is two different types of 2H engine mounts,the 12HT has what i would call the later model mounts,im not sure on the differences but there is two types.
Hope this helps.
 
Ok so the 2H bellhousing is the same across the range.

I'll be heading out to a wrecking yard this saturday to take some measurements off an old hj47 wagon (if it's still there).

If the spacing between the engine mounts (chassis) and gearbox mounts (chassis) are short i'll have my answer.

If not maybe the L shape brackets which hold the gearbox cross member are slightly longer to make up the difference?

Either way it looks like i'll chopping the tailshafts again as i did them last year after 5 speed conversion. More $$$ and re-fabricate transmission cover again.

Will get back to you with my results/headaches.

Cheers!
 
Set the engine further rearward.

The 12HT is a 2H in wolf's clothing - same block and peripherals. Don't expect the 12HT to line up in the mounting holes for a 2F.

A 2H bellhousing is a 2H bellhousing. They won't change from model to model in length.


~John

Probably should of done this from the start but i thought everything would just magically fall into place.

Now i can't do this as body tub is 50km away getting sand blasted and sprayed and can't measure clearences.

In a case of the glass being half full at least i now know the back of the engine won't be hitting the firewall.:lol: Lets hope the fan now doesn't hit the radiator!
 
Set the engine further rearward.

The 12HT is a 2H in wolf's clothing - same block and peripherals. Don't expect the 12HT to line up in the mounting holes for a 2F.

A 2H bellhousing is a 2H bellhousing. They won't change from model to model in length.


~John

Sorry dude, but 2H bellhousings are different, not in length, but in axial orientation. Check out my thread here - posts #49, 61 and 62.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/302432-old-yella-gets-5th-gear-4.html

I used the clutch housing out of an HJ75 and it did not mount correctly. It rotates the transmission to the right so that the campanion flange end of the transfer case will end up sitting too low. You will have next to no clearance for the front driveshaft past the transmission mount. At least that was the case for me - which was an H55 into an HJ47. I had to pull the transmission again to swap back my original (HJ47) clutch housing, then everything mounted up perfectly.

My advice to you, sonnyd, is to make sure you get a clutch housing from an HJ47, and NOT an HJ75 - as this will cause you dramas in the future. You may also be able to use an HJ60 clutch housing, but I don't know.
Sorry I can't comment on lengths, I just thought I'd point this out as it caused me quite a few hours extra work when I did my 5 speed conversion.

Cheers and good luck,

Matt
 
Sorry dude, but 2H bellhousings are different, not in length, but in axial orientation. Check out my thread here - posts #49, 61 and 62.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/302432-old-yella-gets-5th-gear-4.html

I used the clutch housing out of an HJ75 and it did not mount correctly. It rotates the transmission to the right so that the campanion flange end of the transfer case will end up sitting too low. You will have next to no clearance for the front driveshaft past the transmission mount. At least that was the case for me - which was an H55 into an HJ47. I had to pull the transmission again to swap back my original (HJ47) clutch housing, then everything mounted up perfectly.

My advice to you, sonnyd, is to make sure you get a clutch housing from an HJ47, and NOT an HJ75 - as this will cause you dramas in the future. You may also be able to use an HJ60 clutch housing, but I don't know.
Sorry I can't comment on lengths, I just thought I'd point this out as it caused me quite a few hours extra work when I did my 5 speed conversion.

Cheers and good luck,

Matt




Thanks for the advice.

As the car is now a rolling chassis i'll have test fit anyway and see how it turns out.

Cheers
 
:cheers:dingbatt. You're a dingbatt in name only mate!:cheers:

HJ47 bellhousing IS different from HJ75 bellhousing so i picked one up from the wreckers today. Like you said it would twist my gearbox/transfer about 5-10 degrees.

Unfortunantly the length isn't any longer. Can't win them all.

As for my measurements from my 81 FJ40 to the 83 HJ47.
Distance from engine mounts to radiator same.
Distance from engine mounts to gearbox brackets shorter.
HJ47 gearbox brackets don't take up the slack either so i guess my chassis has a date with a drill bit.

Thanks all!
 
:cheers:dingbatt. You're a dingbatt in name only mate!:cheers:

HJ47 bellhousing IS different from HJ75 bellhousing so i picked one up from the wreckers today. Like you said it would twist my gearbox/transfer about 5-10 degrees.

Unfortunantly the length isn't any longer. Can't win them all.

As for my measurements from my 81 FJ40 to the 83 HJ47.
Distance from engine mounts to radiator same.
Distance from engine mounts to gearbox brackets shorter.
HJ47 gearbox brackets don't take up the slack either so i guess my chassis has a date with a drill bit.

Thanks all!
I had to do a lot of reading when I put a 3b from an early bj60 into a 78 fj40.
I found that the transfercase shifter was the best place to start at. If you line it up in the hole , it put everything where it should be from front to back.
I don't know if this will work for you, but maybe worth a try.
 
any updates

just curious how things are turning out---got my eye on a 12H-T now!:D
 
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Motor and gearbox are in place.

Using HJ47 engine mounts and engine mount brackets the 12HT sat into place quite nicely. Especially after i spent a grand straightening my bent chassis!!!


The high pressure pipe coming off the power steering pump would of touched the engine mount so i die grinded a bit off the engine mount and a bit off the chassis engine support bracket. This was even after i found a sweet pipe at the wreckers with almost the exact bend i required. Don't know what model it came off but it was a toyota car. I had a hydrolic hose repair guy fit/weld/braze the vaccuum idle up onto the other side of the hose where in goes onto the steering box. I could of left it off but hey i've gone this far right?

Using a HJ47 radiator with modified bottom outlet to accomidate power steering pump.

I also had to die grind the radiator bracket mounting holes on the chassis and weld in a couple of washers to hold it further back as the 12HT sits at a slight angle going down towards the rear thus bottom of fan was 10mm from the radiator at the bottom. Now it's a comfortable 20mm.;)

I also had to cut the fan shroud in half horizontally so it can come off in two havles making changing belts easier. Matter of fact it would of been damn near impossible otherwise.

Alot of this stuffing around could of been avoided if i'd gone with an electric thermo fan (SPAL makes some very slim fans indeed) but i was hell bent on keeping the viscous toyota fan.

Top radiator hose is a shortened HJ47.

Bottom radiator hose is a shortened HJ47 cut in half with a pipe added in between so it can meet the modified bottom radiator outlet.

As for the gearbox/transfer. I'm using a 5 speed out of a HJ75 (already installed 2 years ago) mated to a HJ47 bellhousing. :bounce: Not all 2H bellhousings are the same as mentioned by dingbat earlier.:bounce2:


The bellhousing needs a slight touch with a die grinder in two spots to mate it to the box. It's pretty obvious.

The crossmember is the standard FJ40 unit but i used HJ47 "L" brackets as they actually line up to one of the original holes on either side!:cool:! The FJ40 "L" brackets don't line up to any holes so you're totally guessing where to drill. The other three holes get drilled but who cares!!! You already have your centres!!!:cool:

Now as the HJ47s have a narrower chassis then the FJ40s i spaced it as follows. 10mm plate on the left and 20mm plate on the right. I simply used mild steel cut roughly to size.

Don't forget a HJ47 gearbox mount also as the rubber is thicker than the petrol one.

Might as well mention that the plate on the body that the shifters poke through will need re-fabricting as the position of the levers has moved. The front of the top loader also just touches the body. GOD i love my die grinder.

As for the tail shafts/propeller shafts.

Rear tail shaft angle is better then factory and tail shaft will need lenghtening.

Front tail shaft angle is hideous and will need cardan joint as well as shortening. I thought i could just use a HJ47 unit as it already has the cardan joint but the length is different. Maybe the diffs sit slightly different between the troopies and the shorties? Who knows.

Another issue i had was buying a 12HT clutch kit but having to use a HJ47 thrust bearing. Can remember exactly what i mixed and matched but it came together in the end.

HJ47 slave cylinder used aswell.

Can't remember any of the other stuffing around i went through to get the 12HT into my 40 but i'm sure there was heeps. Call it repressed memory. Like what train crash surviver goes through;)

FREE ADVICE. I was working with a rolling chassis and i believe THIS IS THE ONLY WAY way to tackle such a project and it was still a pain in the :censor:!
Take it or leave it.

Starting the diesel beast made it all worthwhile. It came to life after not having been started for a month with just half a revolution of the starter motor. Try that with a 2F!:lol:

With no exaust anywhere in sight it reved freely and came on boost almost straight away.

The best part was standing back and watching as my mate gave it few hard revs and seeing THE WHOLE CHASSIS TWIST like liquorice under all that torque!:D

Anyhow after much waiting i should be getting it back from the panel shop next week (bare metal re-spray) and putting the finishing touches on it over the next month.

Will post some pics on completion.

Cheers!
 
12H-t

With no exaust anywhere in sight it reved freely and came on boost almost straight away.

The best part was standing back and watching as my mate gave it few hard revs and seeing THE WHOLE CHASSIS TWIST like liquorice under all that torque!:D

Nice, but how can you say that without giving us a video to watch?:D

looks like the 12H-t is not avail after all and I am going with a 1hdt, still I will be keeping an eye on yours. I am sure it will drive great with the 12ht 5 speed;)
 
I was originally going to go for a 1HD-FT (multivalve version of 1HD-T) but a few things that scared me off the idea were;

1. Exhaust couldn't run along RHS due to my reserve fuel tank.
2. Input shaft on gearbox would need replacing to fine spline. Not even sure you can swap them but i think someone on another thread managed it.
3. Power steering/vacuum pump looked like it would of been right in the way of my PTO shaft.
4. Power steering pump on opposite side to my right hand drive steering box.
5. Inlet manifold may of gotten in the way of A/C pipes coming out of the body.
6. Custom engine mounts scare me.
7. Motor cost double the 12HT.
8. I don't like rubber timing belts.

All that said i could of gotten rid of the reserve tank, replaced my input shaft, bought an electric winch, run an extra 30cm of power steering piping, modified the A/C system and got a fabricator who isn't scared to cook up some engine mounts.

A few great things about the later turbo diesels is they don't sound half as agricultural as the earlier engines and for some reason they don't blacken their oil. I had an 80 series 1HD-T with 430000km and couldn't believe how even after 5000km the oil was cleaner then that of my 2F! Oh and the fuel economy on the freeway was nothing short of extrordinary. Around 9L to the 100km unloaded. Possibly less in a shorty fourty.

Good luck if you go that way. 1HD-T is a fine motor and you won't regret it one bit. For piece of mind just change the big end bearings to some aftermarket jap units as some toyota ones had issues.
 
1HD-T

Post up a vid if you ever get a chance:)

well I got the motor and I think I got a decent deal and way cheaper then any 12H-T at least over here or getting it sent over from oz or japan so sometimes it is just down to fate making the choice

good luck with yours
 
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