100 on the Rubicon?

[SINCITY100]

Believe whom you like. I didn't start the 100 crud on the thread. Why so many want me to bring my 100 on the Rubicon? I don't get it.

Isn`t it obvious ?? !! ....

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Believe whom you like. I didn't start the 100 crud on the thread. Why so many want me to bring my 100 on the Rubicon? I don't get it.

Shotts-this is a joke right? You always start the "my pecker is bigger than your pecker" as it applies to 100 series Land Cruisers. I don't think Derek, or anyone else was trying to say they were better wheelers than you, or that their 80 is better than your 100. I would love to have you come with us on the Rubicon in your 100. You would probably do great, and would not feel the need to constantly defend yourself in these forums. No one I know, is out to get you, though that may change.....

I will say honestly, that off the pavement, an 80 is better than a 100 in almost any measurable way. However, I tend to agree with you and Derek, that a 100 is a superior overall vehicle in any measurable way any other time. ie more power, torque, comfort etc. Let's face it-we all get to go on big offroad trips 4-5 times a year, and the rest of the time we have to live with the vehicle on the commute, or around town.

I do think it speaks volumes that you have "retired" the 100 and will be focused on wheeling the LX you have just acquired. As long as you don't piss Derek or Doug off too bad, you are still welcome on the Rubicon trip in August.

 

[SINCITY100]

This thread is REALLY making me want to bring my 100 to this years` Rubi run !!

I dont consider myself an "expert" wheeler ( or for that matter, a "really, really good" off roader !)...But as long as my rig is "driveable" at the end...

I`m game !

Besides... SOMEBODY needs to represent the 100 series at the event !

I mean..the WORSE that can happen, is that I have to leave my poor cruiser behind, somewhere on that hellacious trail..and walk out..right?

 

[FirstToy]

Sincity, if you have sliders and take off the rear bumper plastic, I think you would be covered... ? I dont think you will be walking, you will have solid cruiserheads spotting you.

Why dont you email Andy (cruiserdrew) or Alvaro, or Norcal Doug if you're serious. It's a great bunch.

oops, you have a '00- gonna be locked by then?

 

[Greg B]

Schotts,

You were not there when we worked to get Amando's 100 through the top of Walker hill. IFS sucks.
There is this deep rut, almost as wide as a truck. You must straddle the rut and most of the time, you are riding on the sidewalls of your tires.
In this situation, IFS looked ugly. It seemed like the birfs were under a lot of strain. Eventually we figured out how to get him through.

Let me put it in a another way. Come over and do the 80con with us. You'll see what I mean.

Regards

Alvaro

I'm hoping I can turn this away from the same tired old 100 vs. 80 junk and get the thread back on how 100's fare on the Rubicon. I'm not pointing at you Alvaro; I just used your quote because I have questions for you farther down in my post.

First off, I am in no way trying to argue in any way between the merits of the 80 vs. 100. I love my 100 and don't want anything else. I do however, like the 80's a lot and respect what they're capable of.

With that in mind, I am very curious about where the 100 would suffer on the Rubicon. I love seeing 100's on the 'Con. It was amazing to see the pictures of Amando's 100 and now these 100's supplied by Toyota (even though they did get beat up).

Alvaro, you were mentioning Amando's 100 was having issues in certain situations where IFS played a factor. When you're talking about that rut for instance, were the a-arms having trouble with the pressure coming from the side of the tires? Were the cv's in a bind? Would heavier duty a-arms or ball joints have helped the 100 in this situation?

I'm just trying to picture what happened. Did anybody take pics or video? I would really love to hear more detail about where the 100 was at its worst. This just helps me gain more insight on what to watch for when I push my 100 in the future.

I do believe the 100 to be a very capable vehicle. Body damage is one thing, anyone can sustain body damage no matter what vehicle they are driving (40, 60, 80, 100, etc.) A lot of that can be overcome with the right protective equipment (sliders, bumpers, skids, etc.) Some of it can't due to size of the vehicle, angles, etc.

What I am most interested in is the mechanical ability to survive on the Rubicon. How did Amando's 100 handle itself mechanically. There are a lot of changes to the 100 from previous models. Obviously, lockers front and rear are required. But, coming from a Rover background where everything had to be upgraded to run tough trails (diffs, half-shafts, cv's, gearing, etc,) It is amazing to me that the 100 on 35's can run this type of trail with no other mechanical upgrades.

Is this a testiment to Amando's driving skill, your all's spotting abilities, the strength of the 100? Probably a little of each along with some luck. I guess where I am going with this is that I am amazed that the 100 with all of its so-called "weaknesses" (IFS, semi-floating axles, larger size, five lugs instead of six, etc.) can do these types of trails without more carnage. Are these things really that big of a weakness in the grand scheme of things. Or could a couple more upgrades to the IFS with heavier components make up the difference?

I hope you guys that were there will weigh in on this (Alvaro, Amando, Doug, Derek, Drew, etc.) and please try to stay as objective as possible. I know that is hard sometimes with the way some of us come across, but I would really appreciate any feed back you can give. Thanks in advance,

Greg

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Alvaro, you were mentioning Amando's 100 was having issues in certain situations where IFS played a factor. When you're talking about that rut for instance, were the a-arms having trouble with the pressure coming from the side of the tires? Were the cv's in a bind? Would heavier duty a-arms or ball joints have helped the 100 in this situation?

Greg: I can relate as to why they stopped Amando in that spot and had him take another line. They were in the middle of nowhere and didn't want to risk a front-end breakdown.

Though the times have been RARE, my front components have flexed and altered the angle of the tire to the ground. (No longer making a right angle to the ground...see the pass front tire on the Wedgie. It's SLIGHTLY out of whack) How far can one go before something breaks? Who knows? I don't know of a 100 IFS breaking yet. Do you?

I think one issue is that with IFS you can see things look ugly and you elect to back off. With a solid axle you can't see into it and the birf. If you could I'd bet there's times you'd back off with a SFA too. We all have heard of many birf breakages and in time we'll here of CV breakages too. Things must flex some to avoid breakage. How much is too much.

Knowing the 100's axle shafts are larger than an 80's and adding to that what I've learned from wheeling my 100, I'd not back off. On a spot like Walker Hill I'd let come what may...though on Walker Hill...in the middle of nowhere with no parts...I'd back off too and take an easier path. I'm sure it looked ugly!

My guess about Amando's Walker Hill incident....the truck would have survived. But that's a guess. I'm not God.

 

[bad_religion_au]

For our non-U.S. brethren, I have always heard that most people prefer the original Prado (90 Series) to the 120. Anyone know why? Should this be its own thread?

Thanks,

90 series is a IFS heap of sh!t... 120 series is a ifs heap of sh!t with less ground clearancem, less suspension travel, and more intrusive "driving aids" which do nothing to aid driving in tight situations...

that's the media's spin on it

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

that's the media's spin on it

What's your take on it?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Regarding the "Walker Hill Incident" there was no incident. Amando got his wheels pinched in the rut, which was putting severe strain on the steering components and A arms. As he would attempt to move forward, the front end components were making those very un-natural "I'm about to snap" noises. He wisely backed out. Had he gone forward, he almost certainly would have broken something important. To get out of there, we spotted his wheels up on the rim of the gully, threw a bunch of rocks in the gully in case he fell in and had him drive up it off camber, but with no stain on the steering components. We got lucky and it worked.

If you look at the steering arms from the rack and pinion steering, they are tiny, and there would be no way to repair them in the middle of nowhere, which is where we were. The ball joints must be pretty strong, because when Amando's truck was pinched in there he had about 3 inches of toe-in, maybe more.

On a SFA truck, the steering components are right out in the open where spares can be easily carried, or quickly fabbed from a highlift handle. None of what happend to Amando would have happened to an 80 because the design is entirely different.

I personally think there are few issues with 100 series axle or CV strength, but there are major issues with the steering and suspension set up in Rubicon type terrain.

 

[alvarorb]

Greg,

As John was saying, and as you can see in his picture and a bit on mine. In situations like this, the front wheels tend to go down at an angle. We were very concerned for Amando's front axle.

John tries to spin this as a good thing because you can see what's happening. I disagree. On a IFS system, the wheel will want to go down at the same angle as the rut. It does not have the support of the axle housing to stop it.

Yes, it's a good thing that you can see what's going on and do something about it. But this is not a concern on a solid axle.

Take a look at the second picture. When we tried to do this with Amando's truck. The right front wheel would cave in. Not a pretty sight. To get him through, just took patience.

Regards

Alvaro

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Regarding the "Walker Hill Incident" there was no incident. Amando got his wheels pinched in the rut, which was putting severe strain on the steering components and A arms. As he would attempt to move forward, the front end components were making those very un-natural "I'm about to snap" noises. He wisely backed out. Had he gone forward, he almost certainly would have broken something important. To get out of there, we spotted his wheels up on the rim of the gully, threw a bunch of rocks in the gully in case he fell in and had him drive up it off camber, but with no stain on the steering components. We got lucky and it worked.

If you look at the steering arms from the rack and pinion steering, they are tiny, and there would be no way to repair them in the middle of nowhere, which is where we were. The ball joints must be pretty strong, because when Amando's truck was pinched in there he had about 3 inches of toe-in, maybe more.

On a SFA truck, the steering components are right out in the open where spares can be easily carried, or quickly fabbed from a highlift handle. None of what happend to Amando would have happened to an 80 because the design is entirely different.

I personally think there are few issues with 100 series axle or CV strength, but there are major issues with the steering and suspension set up in Rubicon type terrain.

Very good detail. I didn't understand this in this way from earlier stories.

Hmmm, steering components...well, I'm not the epxert on this of course. IF the 100's components LOOK weaker then maybe they ARE weaker. Maybe Slee has some insight to this.

IF the components ARE weaker then even MORE care should be taken. Why? The power steering on the 80 lacks power. It's weaker, turning is tougher, heavier. Sometimes you can barely get the thing to turn at all when on a huge rock. Not so in the 100. It takes much less effort and is another strong point of the 100-series. That said, IF the components are weaker, then they're more vulnerable because the steering system is more powerful.

I can't write. Did that make sense?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

John tries to spin this as a good thing because you can see what's happening. I disagree. On a IFS system, the wheel will want to go down at the same angle as the rut. It does not have the support of the axle housing to stop it.

You sound like Bill Clinton. Nobody spun anything. Of course it's not a an ideal, OK maybe even a "good" thing. My words stand though. While it LOOKED bad it didn't mean it WOULD break. Talk about "spin". watch the Factor, will ya?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

One more thing....speculating is just that, speculating. When there's EVIDENCE the 100 IFS parts bust (as in situations like Walker Hill) people are free to knock it and tout a solid azle. There's no evidence yet. The comments are therefore speculative in that the IFS/Steering is weaker than a SFA.

Let's draw conslusions AFTER evidence exists. Think of all the speculative negative comments that have been made about new model Cruisers (80 and now 100) that in time were proved wrong.

My experience between my 80s and 100 stands...based on experience. I believe my 100 is contructed OVERALL far superior to my 80-series.

 

[alvarorb]

You sound like Bill Clinton.

John,

I'll take that as a compliment.

Regards

Alvaro

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

John,

I'll take that as a compliment.

Regards

Alvaro

Don't get too excited. Keep it in your pants!

 

[sleeoffroad]

Though the times have been RARE, my front components have flexed and altered the angle of the tire to the ground. (No longer making a right angle to the ground...see the pass front tire on the Wedgie. It's SLIGHTLY out of whack) How far can one go before something breaks? Who knows? I don't know of a 100 IFS breaking yet. Do you?

I think one issue is that with IFS you can see things look ugly and you elect to back off. With a solid axle you can't see into it and the birf. If you could I'd bet there's times you'd back off with a SFA too. We all have heard of many birf breakages and in time we'll here of CV breakages too. Things must flex some to avoid breakage. How much is too much.

This has nothing to do with breaking a birfields. On a SFA stresses on the wheel fromt side loads are transfered to the knuckles/steering arms and tire-rod drag link.

On IFS it is transferred to the bull joints/A-arms/rank and pinion and linkgs.

On a IFS truck, these are way weaker than a SFA truck. Ask people that wheel IFS 4Runners compared to Solid axle trucks.

Only way to break a birfields or CV in cases as described above, would be if the knuckle broke and the birfields was jammed up, or the A arm/ball joint failed and the CV got bound up.

Axle diameter has nothing to do with this. Also, remember that 100 series have two joints on the CV and 80 only has one birfield.

There are a lot of things that IFS are nicer for, strength is not one of them.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Case and point, why was your A arms replaced under warrantee. Did you ever have a steering arm/knuckle replaced on your 80?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

This has nothing to do with breaking a birfields. On a SFA stresses on the wheel fromt side loads are transfered to the knuckles/steering arms and tire-rod drag link.

On IFS it is transferred to the bull joints/A-arms/rank and pinion and linkgs.

On a IFS truck, these are way weaker than a SFA truck. Ask people that wheel IFS 4Runners compared to Solid axle trucks.

Only way to break a birfields or CV in cases as described above, would be if the knuckle broke and the birfields was jammed up, or the A arm/ball joint failed and the CV got bound up.

Axle diameter has nothing to do with this. Also, remember that 100 series have two joints on the CV and 80 only has one birfield.

There are a lot of things that IFS are nicer for, strength is not one of them.

Gotcha. So do you also think the steering is more vulnerable because the 100's steering is more powerful (easier, etc)?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Case and point, why was your A arms replaced under warrantee. Did you ever have a steering arm/knuckle replaced on your 80?

I got free boots and ball joints under ext warr. Svc writer (long history) said they were not busy so he ordered them then later he slapped them on. You get lower ball joints you automatically get arms..on a UZJ. Sold as one unit so asembly not required.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Case and point, why was your A arms replaced under warrantee. Did you ever have a steering arm/knuckle replaced on your 80?

Steering arm/knuckle. Nope. They slapped in a new steering rack because I had play. Wasn't needed. It was a lose WBearing instead. This writer buddy of mine really sets me up well.