06 LX470 Towing Update (1 Viewer)

[wengejor]

Hey everyone, I wanted to discuss my experience towing my 7klb 30ft Avion with my 06 LX with 225k.

So I do tow alot with the LX and I love it. We do trips a few times a year. I did add air bags to help offload the AHC pressures and improve stability.

So yesterday I towed for 7 hours with some significant hill climbs. It was 80 degF and it went well all day until I experienced what I believe is fuel boiling and fuel vapor lock which shut the engine down with no codes. I had 1/4 tank on the gauge, I turned off the A/C, was manually switching gears to maintain speed (40mph) which was slower on the hills and pushing pretty hard at 3500 rpm, then shutdown.

I let it cool 15 minutes, then managed to get it going again and pulled off to fuel up. It shutdown again at the station waiting to get a spot at the pump.

After fill up and cool down, the CEL kicked on when climbing the next hill and it threw a P0420 code (checked at the car store) which cleared fine and its running fine. It ran great for 1.5 hours no issues finishing the towing after the hills were done.

I did change the fuel filter and plugs, cleaned TB and MAF.

Next up will be a fuel pump?

Or maybe some heat shields for the fuel lines??

I will say that I experienced the fuel vapor lock briefly one other time on a hot day with high loads and slow driving uphill. That event didn't fully shut it down and threw no codes.

 

[wengejor]

Update this morning:

It was running rough at cold start, CEL kicked back on. It smoothed out after 3-5 miles of driving around. I'm not towing today.

I'll have to get the oxygen sensors replaced, maybe a fuel pump and see if that helps.

 

[TexLexican]

Update this morning:

It was running rough at cold start, CEL kicked back on. It smoothed out after 3-5 miles of driving around. I'm not towing today.

I'll have to get the oxygen sensors replaced, maybe a fuel pump and see if that helps.

Perhaps try running Cataclean before replacing O2 sensors. Who knows if it’s snake oil but it’s only $30.

 

[Kabanstva]

View attachment 3025685

Hey everyone, I wanted to discuss my experience towing my 7klb 30ft Avion with my 06 LX with 225k.

So I do tow alot with the LX and I love it. We do trips a few times a year. I did add air bags to help offload the AHC pressures and improve stability.

So yesterday I towed for 7 hours with some significant hill climbs. It was 80 degF and it went well all day until I experienced what I believe is fuel boiling and fuel vapor lock which shut the engine down with no codes. I had 1/4 tank on the gauge, I turned off the A/C, was manually switching gears to maintain speed (40mph) which was slower on the hills and pushing pretty hard at 3500 rpm, then shutdown.

I let it cool 15 minutes, then managed to get it going again and pulled off to fuel up. It shutdown again at the station waiting to get a spot at the pump.

After fill up and cool down, the CEL kicked on when climbing the next hill and it threw a P0420 code (checked at the car store) which cleared fine and its running fine. It ran great for 1.5 hours no issues finishing the towing after the hills were done.

I did change the fuel filter and plugs, cleaned TB and MAF.

Next up will be a fuel pump?

Or maybe some heat shields for the fuel lines??

I will say that I experienced the fuel vapor lock briefly one other time on a hot day with high loads and slow driving uphill. That event didn't fully shut it down and threw no codes.

I had vapor lock and engine shut down at high altitude. Changed fuel filter, fuel cap, and added an aluminum 1/8” thick heatshield around the fuel lines. Hasn’t happened since. I’ll report back when I’m at high altitude if the problem comes back.

 

[wengejor]

^^Thanks for sharing your experience. I wasnt at overly high altitudes, but perhaps I got a bad batch of fuel or whatever and now its causing issues with the oxy sensors. I fill up with the mid grade stuff.

I'll try some fuel additive snake oil and see if that helps.


I reset the codes for now and if it pops up again, I'm going to bring it to the shop for some new parts.

Cheers

 

[OEMGUY0720]

Good looking LX!

When was the last time the fuel pump was replaced?

 

[wengejor]

I don't think the fuel pump has ever been replaced. Perhaps now is the time. I did just have at the dealership 2 weeks ago and they said the fuel pressure was within spec.

 

[cwmoser]

7,000 lbs is overload, isn't it?
Max towing capacity is 6,500 lbs and then you add your gear in the trailer, and if you have passengers and some luggage in your LX470 then you are overload there too.

Still, its nice to know that these LX470's can handle the loads.

 

[wengejor]

I think its right at the limit. Empty weight on the camper is ~6000, so yeah its like 6500-7000 with gear and propane. I do use a weight distribution hitch.

I towed this camper home on an 18hr drive and it did great. I've never had issues until yesterday.

 

[cwmoser]

I have a 2002 LX470 and figure that my 4,000 lb camper with 350lb of stuff in it, plus 150lb of stuff in my LX470, plus 2 people and 2 dogs is right on the maximum.
Attached is a PDF showing my calculations.
This forum won't let me attach an Excel Spreadsheet.
I can send the Excel Spreadsheet to you if you want to put in your numbers.

 

[OEMGUY0720]

I don't think the fuel pump has ever been replaced. Perhaps now is the time. I did just have at the dealership 2 weeks ago and they said the fuel pressure was within spec.

I had my fuel pump (I have an 06 as wel) and fuel filter replaced at the same mileage as you have right now on your LX. Experienced the similar venting and stalling issues (with no codes at all) not related to elevation, but with outside temperatures (100°F++) here in Las Vegas. It’s been 3 years now and stalling hasn’t happened since, runs like a champ.

From what I’ve read here and other resources, the 06/07 fuel pump is a 2-speed type. That’s what’s unique about this YM, and when the stalling w/o codes happen, it’s usually the fuel pump and/or fuel filter -basically the fuel delivery system that needs to be addressed. And 9 out of 10 times, that’s the culprit.

For added insurance, I did what @Kabanstva did as well, wrapped the fuel lines with an insulation material.

 

[wengejor]

^^^ thanks for your info. I will bring it to the dealership and talk to them about fuel delivery.

@cwmoser. My math suggests 6775 to 6825 with the junk i have...so ~7k which is over the limit.

 

[Kabanstva]

For the record, we were at about 14,000ft elevation and made the mistake of shutting the engine off for maybe 5-10 minutes. Then it wouldn't crank over and had vapor coming out of the gas cap. It started just fine after sitting for about 15 minutes.

 

[wengejor]

So, I counted 11 trips I've done with this camper including one 18hr trip to get it home, 3 trips around 8 hrs, 1 at 6 hours and the others around 3 hours or less. It's pretty big and heavy, but the 100 series is awesome.

 

[cwmoser]

That is indeed a nice looking Camping Trailer.
Have not heard of an AVION before. Nice, super nice.
In addition, our LX470's are overbuilt and can handle more than speced.

 

[cwmoser]

BTW, I tow our 2019 Micro Minnie 2106DS (3,900 lb dry) with our 2002 LX470.
I tow with Overdrive Off.
Last trip from Advance, NC to Myrtle Beach I averaged 8.5mpg
230 miles to, and 230 miles return, 515miles total of which 55miles were not towing.
That trip was 60.3gal gasoline and cost me $254.46 just in gasoline.

What is your MPG pulling that AVION?

 

[wengejor]

That's a nice looking 02 LX and well matched camper!! My wife drives an 02 LX as well and there are some things about that year that is better than the 03-07 models. One of which is the dreaded VGRS. I wish I had a VGRS off button for towing!! The 02 has way better steering feedback.

The 06 has live MPG data plotted in the trip info on the screen. That shows that I'm getting 9mpg while towing. I can improve that to 10.5 or 11 when cruising with light throttle action, but as soon as I get into stop and go or hills it comes down. I actually put OD on when cruising or downhill which improves mileage, then switch it off when climbing.

 

[cwmoser]

I'm not familiar with VGRS. I assume that the 2002 does not have VGRS???

Thanks. I think next time towing I'll enable OD on flat ground to improve MPG.

I tow without extra mirrors, but my trailer width is 7' and I have a Furrion Camera on the rear of my RV.

 

[Dan240]

Just as one more added data point.

I have an 07 and tow a ~4klb trailer including gear but not people. We have three kids and the dog.

I had a similar experience with the truck shutting off. 100 degrees outside towing up a mountain grade at about 5k' elevation. My truck had 150k on it. I went ahead and replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter and added some shielding under the truck for the fuel lines. It has not come back in ~3 years.

Usually we are going up in elevation when we are camping. I can't imagine dragging a 7klb trailer up the mountain. Would be too slow and stressful for me. I've been under truck'd before and it was not worth it to me.

 

[wengejor]

^^ thanks for sharing your experience with the fuel delivery challenges on the LX. I have an appointment now with the dealer here where im staying to swap out the pump.

I do agree with you that towing this camper on the big mountains is not ideal. Perhaps one day there will be a new tow rig for this old avion!!