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SamoL

SamoL

Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Threads
22
Messages
276
Location
Slovenia, Europe
Website
www.tojezakon.com
Metal front bars are heavy - that's what I don't like about them. A friend of mine told me about alternative: smartbar.
landcruiser_100.jpg

I don't think it's available in the USA or Eurpoe, but also Australians are reading this forum. Smartbar is much safer than steel bars - and that's what I like most. It costs 1050 AUD.
Anyone wanna have it? :)

Regards
Samo
 
If it isn't Steel, then what material is it made of? Is it injection molded plastic?
 
I have heard of these. AFAIK their creation was spurred by the same folks who hug trees and believe a rapist who is shot by his intended victim in self-defense has the right to sue said victim. IOW, it's another reactionary, stupid, not very well-thought-out solution to something that may or may not be a real problem. Their purpose is to help save lives and reduce injuries among pedestrians who get hit by bullbar-equipped trucks. The Australians are trying to outlaw steel bullbars and make these the only alternative. Another "government as nanny" solution.

IMHO, you might as well leave the original bumper on your truck before you waste money on what is essentially just another plastic bumper.

My $0.02 (and off the soapbox),
 
Actually it is a bumper designed to protect the pedestrian, tree, rock, kangaroo that was hit. It won't necessarily protect the vehicle.

I'll do my best to avoid said objects, but if they aren't smart enough to get outta my way, then I'm not sure I want to sacrific my front end with a Playskool plastic bumper.
 
Well, I wouldn't sleep tight if I would kill a man in an accident even though it wouldn't be my fault. And I don't think you guys are much different. Everyone just doesn't try to think about it.

I had a nearmiss today. But I was driving my wifes Alfa. If I would be driving my cruiser I don't think I could avoid the accident. If I would hit that car (a Renault Clio) on the driver side with a LC100 it wouldn't be nice for the driver - even though I have a plastic bumper on my LC.

Maybe I will buy a steel bumper one day, but I still hesitate because of reduced safety.

Regards
Samo
 
Here's the company's website: http://www.teampoly.com.au/index.html

Looks like their expertise is manufacturing plastics/poly...and they make a number of things out of their material, from home water pumps, to agricultural pontoons, to well, even automotive bullbars. They do have a cool kangaroo in their logo though :)
 
SamoL said:
Well, I wouldn't sleep tight if I would kill a man in an accident even though it wouldn't be my fault. And I don't think you guys are much different. Everyone just doesn't try to think about it.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry, but if you were worried about killing pedestrians with your vehicle, you should NOT have bought a 5500 pound Land Cruiser. This argument that a plastic bumper will somehow save lives smacks of an agenda, one that doesn't take into account the laws of physics. It's mass that kills. If I hit an unprotected human being at 40 mph head-on with my truck, I don't think it really matters what my bumper is made of. Now, I've heard the arguments that the plastic bumper gives a little, and allows the body time to be thrown up and over the hood of the vehicle, rather then being simply crushed. Maybe that's true, maybe not, but again, if that's your concern, don't drive a Land Cruiser. Certainly don't replace the factory plastic bumper with just another plastic bumper.

And where does one draw the line? If you say bumpers are unsafe, then what about the entire vehicle? Afterall, no "regular" person really needs an SUV, they're just dangerous to pedestrians. So we should just take them away and make everyone drive lighter, smaller cars. Oh, wait a minute, even 3000 pound steel cars are easily capable of killing if they hit a pedestrian, so we should outlaw those and require people to take public transportation, or ride their bicycles. And so on, and so on...
 
Well, I don't drive 40 mph in the city. The speed limit in the city arround here is 50 km/h. And if you hit the pedestrian, most probably you won't hit him with the full speed - the car has brakes, remember?
And the cahnces you are gonna break the pedestrians skull at 10 km/h if he hits a steel bar are much higher then if he hits the plastic bumper or bonnet. But why am I telling you that - you know that allready.
And as a LC is a lazy cow I accelerate much slower and generally drive it much slower compared to a "normal" car. And that's why I don't think it is more dangerous than smaller and lighter cars.

And the only way to force the manufacturers of offroad bars/bumpers to make them more pedestrians friendly is to forbid steel bumpers. I hope this will happen soon so that I will be able to buy a quality offroad bumper.

Regards

Samo
 
SamoL said:
Well, I don't drive 40 mph in the city. The speed limit in the city arround here is 50 km/h. And if you hit the pedestrian, most probably you won't hit him with the full speed - the car has brakes, remember?
And the cahnces you are gonna break the pedestrians skull at 10 km/h if he hits a steel bar are much higher then if he hits the plastic bumper or bonnet. But why am I telling you that - you know that allready.
And as a LC is a lazy cow I accelerate much slower and generally drive it much slower compared to a "normal" car. And that's why I don't think it is more dangerous than smaller and lighter cars.

And the only way to force the manufacturers of offroad bars/bumpers to make them more pedestrians friendly is to forbid steel bumpers. I hope this will happen soon so that I will be able to buy a quality offroad bumper.

Regards

Samo
Click to expand...


Hmmm, interesting rationalization on why you won't kill anyone in your Cruiser if you accidentally hit them.

Anyway, in this country many of us (though not all) believe in something called "personal responsibility" for our actions. If I hit someone with my plastic bumper and they don't die, fine, I just have to deal with a lawsuit. If I hit them with a steel bumper and they DO die, well, now I have to deal with a guilty conscience, a manslaughter charge, and a lawsuit. That is something I have to live with as a consequence of my choice to own a steel bumper rather than plastic. The difference is, I am not relying on my government to mandate what I can or cannot own, instead I am willing to take personal responsibility for my choices.

If you want a plastic bumper, fine, but don't force your choice on the rest of us by government fiat.

And, IMHO, a plastic bumper will never be a quality offroad bumper. The frame of your truck is made out of steel for a reason...

Again, my $0.02, :cheers:
 
You are lucky that I live in EU and I have no influence on US goverment :) .
As most offroad bumpers are produced in Australia, decisions of Australian goverment will have the biggest impact on all of us. :)

Regards
Samo
 
I can see the advantages of a well-made plastic bumper. Good approach angles, light weight and possibly lower cost. With good design and metal reinforcement they could probably be made to provide offroad protection.

But the idea that they will greatly reduce deaths in car on ped accidents is silly. Every pedestrian fatality (except suicides) I have ever been to the pedestrian was drunk and not paying attention to traffic. I imagine it is the same worldwide.

The real goal of a plastic bumper law (like many others, stock tires only, ect) is to widdle away at offroad recreation as a pasttime. The enviros and city elites won't attack something so popular directly but will attack the businesses supplying us with regulation and our vehicles with "safety" regulations. Don't be fooled Samo. They don't like your recreation and don't want to see your truck on the road. The "safety" angle to the law is just a whitewash.

SamoL said:
As most offroad bumpers are produced in Australia, decisions of Australian goverment will have the biggest impact on all of us.
Click to expand...

The Australian system of goverment run auto insurance allows the goverment to mandate a lot in the name of safety and "economy". I predict that Australia will soon cease to be the source of much offroad innovation and we Toyota owners may suffer because the NA market for our trucks is relatively small.

SamoL said:
You are lucky that I live in EU and I have no influence on US goverment :) .
Click to expand...
In our globalized world we need to encourage everyone be wary of giving up personal liberty for questionable increases in "safety". Your loss (or Australians) loss of liberty does effect me.
 
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SamoL said:
You are lucky that I live in EU and I have no influence on US goverment :) .
Click to expand...


Not sure "luck" is the right word...


SamoL said:
As most offroad bumpers are produced in Australia, decisions of Australian goverment will have the biggest impact on all of us. :)

Regards
Samo
Click to expand...


Yes, but we've got Mr. Slee here in the good `ol US of A making arguably the finest steel bumper products in the world right now! :cheers:
 
dclee said:
Yes, but we've got Mr. Slee here in the good `ol US of A making arguably the finest steel bumper products in the world right now! :cheers:
Click to expand...

Not for the 100. Airbag Liabilty :doh: .... Damn Lawyers :mad: . I vote for Shakespeare's reform.
 
Unlike European governments, North American governments focus primarily on what happens to vehicle occupants when studying crash safety. And in fact, bull bars can actually minimize the damage to the other vehicle in a collision, by pushing the second car away like a snowplow, says Julie Rochman, spokesperson for the US-based Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.​

Quote from this anti-bullbar article in Mother Jones
 
IMHO- Plastic bullbar, arguably marginally better for pedestrian in a low speed accident, in probably almost all other situations, a steel bullbar is better.
 
There were several smart bars mounted to trucks in the Outback Challenge organization crew. I liked them. You still have a steel subframe and winch mount etc. It allows for more unique styling because it is molded.

I have a few pictures somewhere
 
to quote an email from the Pedestrian Council of Australia Limited
Dear Peter

You seem to miss an important point.

It's not just the PCA which has serious concerns about 4WDs.

It's the vast majority of motorists.

http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancouncil/page.asp?PageID=1262&SiteID=1

But then you probably don't want to know or care about what others think.

Thanks for writing.

Regards

Harold
____________________________________________

Harold Scruby
Chairman/CEO

Pedestrian Council of Australia Limited
"The Walking Class Heroes"

And Harold didn't bother to debate my subsequent arguments. Pity. Coz i have lived in the CBD of Melbourne, Australia for a total of 4 years...including back in the 1990s when it was "unusual" for some to live in the "city".

I had and have views about cars in "the city"...but these guys are in the extreme.

They want to ban all 4wd/4x4 from not only the CBD, but also the inner city suburbs.

My view is that most 4wd'ers/4x4'ers are responsible drivers and if they ARE in the CBD we slow down. I constantly get cut off on the highways when i leave a "safe gap" between me and the vehicle in front of me.

Where's that documented? Sensible drivers ...4wd/4x4 drivers looking ahead of the traffic. Unfortunately it's not documented or recorded as a stat for us responsible drivers. Hey, we have a good view of the traffic ahead usually and can react accordingly.

I think they are intimidated by photos like this:
DSC06120-640.jpg

and urban legends in general
cheers
peter
 
The 80 version does look less like tupperware. But is it functional ?

landcruiser_80.jpg


Anyone have the approach angle numbers for the Smart Bar ?
 
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