Dual Battery Diagram (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Rich
- Start date
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Cool, what program did you use to draw that up? I need to draw up a winch project I have been working on...
A couple of questions...
How much current does the winch draw at max effort?
What type of parallel charging solenoid are you planning on using? Is it switchable, automatic, manual? What peaks and continuous duty rating will it use?
Why not just put one high AMP fuse - between the winch switch and the winch? Starting circuits are not normally fused.
Seems to me that you might also consider the connecting the alternator output to the charging solenoid, not the distribution bus?
Is the control switch SPST or will you have selectability of batteries to charge?
Will you employ an on-dash status LED for 'ON'?
Here is the diagram of my set up...
Thanks.
M
How much current does the winch draw at max effort?
What type of parallel charging solenoid are you planning on using? Is it switchable, automatic, manual? What peaks and continuous duty rating will it use?
Why not just put one high AMP fuse - between the winch switch and the winch? Starting circuits are not normally fused.
Seems to me that you might also consider the connecting the alternator output to the charging solenoid, not the distribution bus?
Is the control switch SPST or will you have selectability of batteries to charge?
Will you employ an on-dash status LED for 'ON'?
Here is the diagram of my set up...
Thanks.
M
- Thread starter
- #5
Mike, below are your questions & answers.
"How much current does the winch draw at max effort?"
Warn M1200 draws 440 amps at max 1200 lbs pull.
"What type of parallel charging solenoid are you planning on using? Is it switchable, automatic, manual? What peaks and continuous duty rating will it use?"
A Blue Sea electronic solenoid. Can handle 250 amps continuous, 500 amps cranking for a bit more than 9 seconds, with 10 repeats. If enabled, it automatically parallels when the altenator is charging.
"Why not just put one high AMP fuse - between the winch switch and the winch? Starting circuits are not normally fused."
High amp 12 volt fuses weren't available in the past. They are now. With the additional wiring required for dual batteries the fuses will provide fire saftey. The winch draws more current than the starter. A fuse for the winch will also be sufficient for the starter.
"Seems to me that you might also consider the connecting the alternator output to the charging solenoid, not the distribution bus?"
The solenoid only parallels the batteries. It is out of circuit when manually disabled and when winching.
"Is the control switch SPST or will you have selectability of batteries to charge?"
SPST. If solenoid control switch is closed both batteries always charge. If solenoid control switch is open the battery selector switch determines if either or both batteries charge.
"Will you employ an on-dash status LED for 'ON'?"
Could do. The solenoid will always be disabled when winching, to prevent winch current draw from going through the solenoid when winching on a single battery.
Solenoid would only typically be manually disabled in the case that a battery has totally failed, or in a rare circumstance where I won't only a single battery in use to be charged.
The led is a good idea in case the winch enablement switch is left on inadvertantly.
"How much current does the winch draw at max effort?"
Warn M1200 draws 440 amps at max 1200 lbs pull.
"What type of parallel charging solenoid are you planning on using? Is it switchable, automatic, manual? What peaks and continuous duty rating will it use?"
A Blue Sea electronic solenoid. Can handle 250 amps continuous, 500 amps cranking for a bit more than 9 seconds, with 10 repeats. If enabled, it automatically parallels when the altenator is charging.
"Why not just put one high AMP fuse - between the winch switch and the winch? Starting circuits are not normally fused."
High amp 12 volt fuses weren't available in the past. They are now. With the additional wiring required for dual batteries the fuses will provide fire saftey. The winch draws more current than the starter. A fuse for the winch will also be sufficient for the starter.
"Seems to me that you might also consider the connecting the alternator output to the charging solenoid, not the distribution bus?"
The solenoid only parallels the batteries. It is out of circuit when manually disabled and when winching.
"Is the control switch SPST or will you have selectability of batteries to charge?"
SPST. If solenoid control switch is closed both batteries always charge. If solenoid control switch is open the battery selector switch determines if either or both batteries charge.
"Will you employ an on-dash status LED for 'ON'?"
Could do. The solenoid will always be disabled when winching, to prevent winch current draw from going through the solenoid when winching on a single battery.
Solenoid would only typically be manually disabled in the case that a battery has totally failed, or in a rare circumstance where I won't only a single battery in use to be charged.
The led is a good idea in case the winch enablement switch is left on inadvertantly.
They are both valid designs. I like being able to join 2 batteries for winching but I also do not like it. If you keep winching you can kill both of them. I do not like to expose my system to full draw on both batteries. I stick with an isolater cus I really like being 100% sure the batts are isolated 100% from each other and beacuse I do not want to introduce the switch in the system. For me, the switch is another thing to forget to mess with.
Question for Mike S:
Why do you run your aux loads off of the primary batt?
Question for Mike S:
Why do you run your aux loads off of the primary batt?
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
dd113 said:
Not Mike S, but when I talked to the guy at Hellroaring, they reccomended the same thing. That way, while your loads like a fridge or whatever theoretically could kill the main battery, you will always have a fully charged spare to self jump and run your vehicle. I did ask specifically about running the fridge off the #2 battery and they do not reccomend that. For winching, they reccomend allowing the isolated battery to boost the main battery. Obvioulsy this means using 2 batteries both of which have deep cycle capabilities. They do quote some interesting figures that winching in this way gives you about 3 times the amount of winching power due to less voltage drop during the winching. I suppose it could be true! I hope this thread keeps rolling, as I am about to install my shiny new right side battery tray in my 80 series and have many of the same concerns. I did order the Hellroaring system, but this helps to understand the alternatives.
With that said, one of my friends has the Hellroaring system, swears by it, and is installing another in his 100 series.
Rich: Are you using the BlueSea 9112 Solenoid (also called the Automatic Charging Relay)? I have spent a bunch of time on figuring out how I want my system... There is more than one way to skin a cat, 'course.
David - by setting the system up the way it is diagrammed, I always have a full fresh battery in reserve. Since the ACR senses battery drop, it will combine batteries as required by the total system current draw. It will also combine them when charging. By running the distribution bus from that point, the current is available regardless of the condition of the ACR.
I chose the ACR because it does not require that the alternator be altered to provide remote voltage drop sensing, provides mechanical isolation, and is rugged enough not to be fried by some unanticipated event. The Hell Roaring unit is the best islolator available IMHO, because, especially with the 300 AMP model, it is rugged, but has very low voltage drop across teh isolator. However, I would not want to put 300 AMPs or more through it.
The 'total starting reserve' strategy is a good one, for the reasons that Andrew pointed out. I chose to set my system up that way - - but is is just one way to do the job.
Any auto relay or isolator can be tricked into 'cycling' (opening and closing excessively when the total load exceeds the available charge). The answer is to upgrade the alternator to provide current exceeding system requirements. I will rewind the staock alternator to provide 90 to 120 AMPs.
I am using dual Optima Yellow Tops (D31T's) which provide 950 CCA each. They are deep draw, and can be cycled down repeatedly without dying - unlike a standard starting battery that cannot tolerate multiple deep discharge events.
So that kanda covers the WHY of my set up. Sorry, Rich for hijacking the thread a bit, but this is something that I have been looking at for a while, and I/m interested in the subject.
Mike
David - by setting the system up the way it is diagrammed, I always have a full fresh battery in reserve. Since the ACR senses battery drop, it will combine batteries as required by the total system current draw. It will also combine them when charging. By running the distribution bus from that point, the current is available regardless of the condition of the ACR.
I chose the ACR because it does not require that the alternator be altered to provide remote voltage drop sensing, provides mechanical isolation, and is rugged enough not to be fried by some unanticipated event. The Hell Roaring unit is the best islolator available IMHO, because, especially with the 300 AMP model, it is rugged, but has very low voltage drop across teh isolator. However, I would not want to put 300 AMPs or more through it.
The 'total starting reserve' strategy is a good one, for the reasons that Andrew pointed out. I chose to set my system up that way - - but is is just one way to do the job.
Any auto relay or isolator can be tricked into 'cycling' (opening and closing excessively when the total load exceeds the available charge). The answer is to upgrade the alternator to provide current exceeding system requirements. I will rewind the staock alternator to provide 90 to 120 AMPs.
I am using dual Optima Yellow Tops (D31T's) which provide 950 CCA each. They are deep draw, and can be cycled down repeatedly without dying - unlike a standard starting battery that cannot tolerate multiple deep discharge events.
So that kanda covers the WHY of my set up. Sorry, Rich for hijacking the thread a bit, but this is something that I have been looking at for a while, and I/m interested in the subject.
Mike
- Thread starter
- #9
Mike, I am not using the "automatic" version of the Blue Sea soleniod. In my design, it is already automatic in that when the engine is running the batteries are paralleled and when the engine is off, they are not paralleled by the soleniod.
The principle objective driving my design is to enable each battery to be fully redundent. Either one of the batteries can fail, or even be removed, and everything electrical in the Land Cruiser will still operate. The other unique feature of this design is the ability to disconnect all power. This last feature comes with a penalty, in that without modifying the voltage regulator, it is possible that disconnecting all power while the engine is running could damage the alternator.
The principle objective driving my design is to enable each battery to be fully redundent. Either one of the batteries can fail, or even be removed, and everything electrical in the Land Cruiser will still operate. The other unique feature of this design is the ability to disconnect all power. This last feature comes with a penalty, in that without modifying the voltage regulator, it is possible that disconnecting all power while the engine is running could damage the alternator.
Rich said:
Gotcha. The auto only means that the primary battery will always be charged first, then the secondary will be charged. They will be combined whenever the total draw requires it - running or not. I like this for hard starting situations, admittedly infrequent.
Right, running the engine without any load will fry the alternator. Where will you connect the battery fusible link for the vehicle loads?
M
Rich,
Will you normally run with the Batt Select Switch set to "Both?"
Does your design allow for a fridge to run all weekend and drain only one battery or do you have to isolate the batteries first with the 1/2/Both switch?
-B-
Will you normally run with the Batt Select Switch set to "Both?"
Does your design allow for a fridge to run all weekend and drain only one battery or do you have to isolate the batteries first with the 1/2/Both switch?
-B-
- Thread starter
- #12
-B-
I would normally run with the battery selector switched to Bat 1 or Bat 2. Would flip the switch every month or so to swap starting duty from battery to battery. Having the switch set to both wouldb be the exception. Would only switch to both if it were not possible to start on either single battery (not likely to happen) or if both batteries were required for extended winching duty.
So the normal case is with engine off one battery would be isolated with no loads so it would be available for starting duty if the in use battery were depleted by a fridge or other extended loads.
I would normally run with the battery selector switched to Bat 1 or Bat 2. Would flip the switch every month or so to swap starting duty from battery to battery. Having the switch set to both wouldb be the exception. Would only switch to both if it were not possible to start on either single battery (not likely to happen) or if both batteries were required for extended winching duty.
So the normal case is with engine off one battery would be isolated with no loads so it would be available for starting duty if the in use battery were depleted by a fridge or other extended loads.
