12 and 24 volt questions

[Dave 2000]

Hi all, this question is mainly aimed at diesel owners but others may have input so feel free. I am looking to purchase and prepare an ‘80’ for expedition use. As 80’s tend to be like hens teeth here in Spain and those that can be found are either beaten up or silly money I plan to purchase a VX manual diesel in the UK and this is where I need a little help.

I need an extra battery to run a fridge and other odds and ends and would like to keep it under the bonnet to save space, no problem I hear you say except many markets (including the UK) are 24v starting and 12v running, and this means the space normally used for the aux battery is used up. My plan was to dump the 24v starter and fit a 12v version. Investigations show that some markets got the 24v system and some the 12v set up, it’s also possible the 24v versions were for very cold climates and yet I have seen 24v starters used on a Spanish version and on a variant from Germany, add to this that Australia also got a 12v version and yet they have cold weather as well and you can see the point of my post.

I will use the information to see if I can dump the 24v system, get rid of the relay changeover system and use the space for my fridge battery.

I would like forum members with diesels to take the time and let me know:

1, The country/area you live in:

2, Original or JDM:

3, 12v or 24v system:

4, The coldest weather experienced:

5, Any cold weather starting problems:

6, Any starter contact issues:

Many thanks in advance, please note I have asked this question on one or two other forums and on the MUD 80 tech (Mods please delete if I have been naughty) as well to get feedback from as many countries/environments as possible.

Regards

Dave

 

[Lost]

so are you saying you want a third battery for the fridge?

i see no reason to take out the 24v starter

if the 3rd battery needs to be under the hood, then you have to make space for it.

you can always set up a battery in the back OR
i have seen a clever setup that mounted the batteries UNDER the fuel tank(no spare tire in the way)
there is also lots of room under truck in other places to mount aux batteries.
although i would only recomend this if you dont go offroading

note as well there are drycell baterries available that allows then to be mounted in any position(on their side or even upside down)

 

[Dave 2000]

I wanted to dump the 24v starter along with the relay and wiring, that way I can fit a dedicated fridge battery in the spare slot without adding even more cabling and weight. I am trying to find out why there was a 24v system and if I can modify it however, I do not want to find myself with a non starter the first night out. I am savvy with the electrics and presently have two OPTIMA's in my present rig and know they can be used on thier sides.

Thanks for the reply and keep them coming,

regards

Dave

 

[tlcruiserman]

I wanted to dump the 24v starter along with the relay and wiring, that way I can fit a dedicated fridge battery in the spare slot without adding even more cabling and weight. I am trying to find out why there was a 24v system and if I can modify it however, I do not want to find myself with a non starter the first night out. I am savvy with the electrics and presently have two OPTIMA's in my present rig and know they can be used on thier sides.

Thanks for the reply and keep them coming,

regards

Dave

So to really answer your question you left out one of the most important peices of information what engine does it have?

1hz, 1HD-T, 1HD-FT, or newer 1HD-FTE???

The reason this makes a difference is the starters are different on the newer ones and some engines came with both 12 and 24 and some did not. Let us know.

Cheers,

Michael

 

[Dave 2000]

So to really answer your question you left out one of the most important peices of information what engine does it have?

Please read the thread from the beginning, i.e. 'I am looking to purchase' ect, so I do not know what version the diesel will be, IIH it will not be a non turbo version but could be 12 valve or 24 however, it seems the diesels only had two starter variants 12 volt or 24. I am only questioning the feasablity of making the second battery the 'aux' and then fitting a 12v starter ect.

Thanks for the interest

regards

Dave

 

[roscoFJ73]

I would have thought you could get 3 batteries under the bonnet of an 80.

You should make the 3rd battery a deep cycle battery,they are much better for running fridges and low wattage lighting.
You can also get a Waeco fridge with a 20 hr battery built into the fridge.

 

[Dave 2000]

Thanks for that Rosco, I have noted some people have fitted a third battery on the LHD version which are automatic, this is placed where the master cylinder and servo are fitted for the clutch.

I know I can fit a bttery pretty much anywhere (vehicle electrics I'm savvy with) but just need to find out whether a modern battery and a 12v starter will crank a diesel 80 over on a cold morning.

Thanks again

regards

Dave

 

[lostmarbles]

I don't know if this is of any use to you ...but:

My BJ40 has a 3 litre 4-cylinder diesel.

In Canada and Europe is was sold with a 24Volt 4.5kW starter.

But in this part of the world (Australia/NZ) it was sold with a 12Volt 2.5 kW starter.

I have had no trouble starting my cruiser in winter but I doubt I've ever tried at engine temperatures lower than -5 oC. (That's about as cold as it gets in most places I've been in winter.)

At such cold temperatures it turns over slowly - but despite the slow turnover, it never hesitates to fire-up.



PS. AFAIK ...Glowscreens/glowplugs would need to be converted from 24V to 12V too.

 

[roscoFJ73]

s I just need to find out whether a modern battery and a 12v starter will crank a diesel 80 over on a cold morning.

Thanks again

regards

Dave

If its any help,I believe they no longer make 24v versions.
They use 12v diesel landcruisers for ambulances here in the snow fields but they probably keep them in heated sheds.

What kind of temps are you talking about?

The glowplug section in the FSM has a graph showing how long 12 and 24v glowplugs glow for at various temps.
This may give you an indication of what temp they will operate in

 

[Dave 2000]

I don't know if this is of any use to you ...but:

My BJ40 has a 3 litre 4-cylinder diesel.

In Canada and Europe is was sold with a 24Volt 4.5kW starter.

But in this part of the world (Australia/NZ) it was sold with a 12Volt 2.5 kW starter.

I have had no trouble starting my cruiser in winter but I doubt I've ever tried at engine temperatures lower than -5 oC. (That's about as cold as it gets in most places I've been in winter.)

At such cold temperatures it turns over slowly - but despite the slow turnover, it never hesitates to fire-up.



PS. AFAIK ...Glowscreens/glowplugs would need to be converted from 24V to 12V too.

Every little bit of information is important in making my decision so many thanks.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

If its any help,I believe they no longer make 24v versions.

Are you refering to the new 80's still being built in Venezuela?

What kind of temps are you talking about?

Probably -25...ish I'm thinking parts of Russia/Ukraine will be on my list.

The glowplug section in the FSM has a graph showing how long 12 and 24v glowplugs glow for at various temps.
This may give you an indication of what temp they will operate in

I think I have a downloaded copy of the FSM somewhere I will have a browse.

Thanks for that and keep it coming!

regards

Dave

 

[blis]

If its any help,I believe they no longer make 24v versions.
They use 12v diesel landcruisers for ambulances here in the snow fields but they probably keep them in heated sheds.

What kind of temps are you talking about?

The glowplug section in the FSM has a graph showing how long 12 and 24v glowplugs glow for at various temps.
This may give you an indication of what temp they will operate in

I think I have a downloaded copy of the FSM somewhere I will have a browse.

Thanks for that and keep it coming!

regards

Dave

I got myself hj60 thats cold climate spec (afaik all are here in finland) and they all come with 24volt system and 4.5kw starter and it cranks fine all the way down to -30c (allthou it cranks bit slower down there) but long as it stays over -15c it starts with flick of ignition...

However i doubt 12v got enough oomph anymore at -25c's to start the engine without being heated, so, if youre going to visit parts of russia/ukraine i wouldnt switch away the 24v system since even in st. petersburg it can drop down to -35'ish...

Also, if AC isnt necessary you can always fit second, 12v alternator there and fit something like optima yellow top in the engine bay for there should be enough room for it....

 

[Dave 2000]

Thanks for that blis, i will add it to my fast growing information list. An interesting thing that has come to light is the later 100 series is all 12v but with twin batteries in parallel to keep the amps up, it seems Toyota have dumped the 24v system for good.

Thanks again

regards

Dave

 

[100 TD]

As previously mentioned, 24 volt cold spec starters are 4.5kW, the 12 volt ones are 2.5 kW. The 100 series 1HZ come with a 2.5 or a 3kW in some variants, not sure which ones. Getting hold of the 3kW starter at the right price will be the hard bit.
The 1HD-FTE comes with the 3kW, and if the batteries are down a bit it will wind the engine over but not start it. I expect that this is due to the lower compression ratio of the turbo engine. I would have expected a 1HZ to fire but can't be sure. What it does mean (for a 1HD-FTE at least) is the battery needs to be in prime condition to spin the engine quickly to make it fire. ( I have only been as low as -4*C) I now run 1 large Optima yellow top for starting, this is the big sucker that weighs 27 kg. I also have a second one for my fridge and accessories automatically switched via a voltage controlled solenoid (REDARC) with jump start capability. If you are going to cold places I would be using these batteries or similar AGM batteries, the big one (the price hurts) as well as the 3kW starter if you can get it. If you know someone coming from the US get them to fly 2 extra small suitcases carrying a Sears DieHard Platinum in each one for you. About $200 USD each
https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/218815-another-can-i-fit-battery-my-100-thread.html

 

[Dave 2000]

As previously mentioned, 24 volt cold spec starters are 4.5kW, the 12 volt ones are 2.5 kW. The 100 series 1HZ come with a 2.5 or a 3kW in some variants, not sure which ones. Getting hold of the 3kW starter at the right price will be the hard bit.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/218815-another-can-i-fit-battery-my-100-thread.html

Thanks for reminding me about the 3kw starter, TBH I have so much info coming in I have not had time to put it all in one place for easier reference but it will be sorted very soon. I already use twin Optima's in my Discovery one purely for engine and the other for accessories i.e. fridge ect and never have any issues with these batteries, you are right they are pricey but you get what you pay for IMHO.

regards

Dave

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

I have a BJ44 with 24v system... I would not trade it for the world. Even though it can be a pain sometimes, the power and starting capability is worth the extra $ for bulbs and such. I am looking into putting a second 12V alternator (since I have one sitting around from a fj60 part out) to run accessories on long trips.

So I have a few Q's for you... What kind of fridge are you looking at? I have not heard of too many people that have had problems with using a good one like ARB/Waeco/Engel overnight and not draining the battery too much. For half of the cost of the starter, you could buy the transit bag which will make the fridge even more efficient. For my money, not messing with the stock systems and just being careful, I'd be fine. Also, have you thought of just putting in a disconnect switch into the truck so after you start the rig, you can add a third battery in the cab to the charging circuit and charge while you drive, and then just use that third when the truck is at camp. That way you can use the stock alt to charge all three batteries, but not have to touch the starting and driving batteries at all.

Just a few ideas.

K

 

[Dave 2000]

I have a BJ44 with 24v system... I would not trade it for the world. Even though it can be a pain sometimes, the power and starting capability is worth the extra $ for bulbs and such. I am looking into putting a second 12V alternator (since I have one sitting around from a fj60 part out) to run accessories on long trips.

So I have a few Q's for you... What kind of fridge are you looking at? I have not heard of too many people that have had problems with using a good one like ARB/Waeco/Engel overnight and not draining the battery too much. For half of the cost of the starter, you could buy the transit bag which will make the fridge even more efficient. For my money, not messing with the stock systems and just being careful, I'd be fine. Also, have you thought of just putting in a disconnect switch into the truck so after you start the rig, you can add a third battery in the cab to the charging circuit and charge while you drive, and then just use that third when the truck is at camp. That way you can use the stock alt to charge all three batteries, but not have to touch the starting and driving batteries at all.

Just a few ideas.

K

Fridge is the 40 litre engel, it is quite old but that is not why I want to change the system. It is more about upgrading and reducing the amount of things that can go wrong, add to this the fact I can use the second battery tray as my aux instead of having a third battery. I thinnk your car is a total 24v systm i.e. lights ect? If that was the case with the 80 then I would not bother. Thanks for your input,

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

OK, now back on the case and have purchased the 80: https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/365673-my-lc-80-thread.html

The planned 12v conversion is about to be started but of course I need a 12v starter! 'lostmarbles' you mentioned the AUS/NZ starters are 12 volts and 2.5kw which are in the 80 so I know one of them will fit so anyone with a part number? Add to this '100TD' informs me the 100 uses a 3kw 12 volt starter which is even better however, can anyone confirm the 100 starter will fit in an 80 engine. Also please keep in mind mine is a manual or 'standard' gearbox so I am unsure if the starters (any of them) vary from manual to auto.

Any information you have guys/girls will help,

regards

Dave

 

[100 TD]

From other markets.....................
28100-17010 2.5kW 90/92-08 1H#..HDJ80, HZJ80
28100-17040 2.5kW 92-08/96-08 1H#..HDJ80, HZJ80
28100-17060 2.5kW 96-08-> 1H# 80 & 98-> 1HDT, 1HZ.. HDJ100, HZJ105
28100-17070 3kW 98-> 1HD-FTE & 1HZ.. HZJ105 (for the 1HZ only listed as LHD but I doubt that will matter)
I expect any of these will fit and work
The wreckers would be the only place to get a 3kW starter from and I expect they would be like hens teeth as they probably get sold with the engine.
(errors and omissions excepted)
TOYOTA Landcruiser 1HD-T, 1HZ, 1PZ Diesel Starter Motor - eBay, Other, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 08-Apr-10 11:05:09 AEST)

 

[Dave 2000]

Thanks for that 100TD, if I cannot find one of those part numbers over here in Europe I will be asking one of the members of the LCOOL forum in OZ and see if they can get one for me.

Thanks again.

regards

Dave