Another Head Gasket

[Blue Phoenix]

I guess for some unforeseen reason I thought I had escaped having to worry about my HG going, but upon my return home on leave I noticed on the first start-up rough idling. OK, the the oil hasnt been changed in a while and Ive been gone for 6 months, so maybe Im paranoid.
Go to the auto parts store, look under the hood JUST to be sure and double check on things....CRAP.
What looks like a mixture of oil and coolant make a nice slick coating on the under belly of my engine, so I check coolant level. About an inch below the "LOW" level line on the reservoir.
SO, taking it to toyota for an oil analysis just to put the icing on the cake and then looking around for a shop that is willing to do an HG overhaul before Thanksgiving.
I have looked for some pricing info in the HG threads, but I havent seen any figures. How much should I expect on the high end to pay for a job like this? I know its labor and time intensive, so I expect to get hit pretty hard.

What Im unclear on is what work should I also look at getting done? I know many people get the head milled along with changing out some internals, but Im not looking to increase the cost tons more than the out-the-door cost for something like this. If I hadnt JUST ordered a set of sliders, Id go all the way with it, but it is what it is. So are there any not-too-expensive-need-to-get items I should go for?

 

[Kernal]

Just a newb here, but could you have a leak from a coolant hose? I've had a busted heater valve nipple and the PHH leaking this past year and both spewed coolant all over, but the PHH leak was the hardest to find, until I looked at the hose. Lots of threads on symptoms of blown headgaskets, but most don't mention coolant dripping off the bottom of the engine IIRC. Maybe clean off the engine and look for coolant leaks?

 

[jhanley]

If it's in fact your HG, you're looking at minimum 2k. IPOR (a very reputable shop) quoted me 1,900 to 2,500 depending on the machine work not including parts. They have it as a 16 hour job. I wouldn't trust a Toyota dealership, lots of reputable landcruiser guys in your neck of the woods. If you can't do any work yourself, set aside 3k and get it done right. well worth another 200k miles from your 80

 

[ToothDr]

Agreed. If it is your headgasket, would be worth it to tow the rig up to Golden and have Slee-Off road do the work. A least you'll know it's been done right the first time.

Pete

 

[ALCO]

The only HG I ever blew was on a Chevy 327 with 13:1 compression.

When it blew I has a huge steam cloud coming out of the exhaust and the oil was a milky color.

Look for a coolant leak.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Yeah...First problem is Im not in Mecca right now, i.e. Crawlorado. Im in Searcy, Arkansas well away from all the shops I would normally have taken it to because Im visiting my wife. IPOR was my first choice. So any guys in the Arkansas area feel free to chime in.

As far as locating the leak, thats what has me scratching my head. From reading the threads about where to look for the leaks, it doesnt appear to be leaking from those areas. It DOES however, appear to be leaking from the transmission/engine mating area, which leads me to speculate oil pan arch seal?

I may be just EXTREMELY paranoid because Ive dreaded this as long as Ive owned the vehicle, but either way, I'll have more info after the oil analysis is completed.

After thought- I checked the PHH and as before, it is in tact. No bulging or leaking noted in the area.

 

[Ebag333]

What looks like a mixture of oil and coolant make a nice slick coating on the under belly of my engine, so I check coolant level.

I would be more suspicious of a failed hose, radiator tank, etc than a head gasket.

Pressurize the cooling system as per the FSM (IIRC to 17 PSI, but double check) and look for leaks.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I wouldn't jump all over it as a HG at this time. Puzzles me you're going to a Toyota dealer for oil analysis as they generally don't offer this - they send it to someone who does. I'd go to a Caterpillar dealer or other heavy equipment selling/servicing shop. Does your oil cap have any light colored thick deposits on it when you remove it?

So far, this seems like a coolant leak - especially if you can see what's on the bottom is coolant. I hope the Toyota dealer is truly doing an oil analysis versus what I suspect might be the visual "you have a head gasket leak 'cause you're from out of town and the owner has to make a boat payment" thing.

DougM

 

[Marc311]

I would be less concerned about getting it done quick then getting it done right. By ""right" I mean getting everything done that is reasonable while you have the head off. You can always rent a car. But you need to decide what other work you want done while the head is off: Head work, fuel injector cleaning, fuel filter, vsv, whatever.

I really don't think replacing a headgasket is rocket science (although the headwork may be). Either way, you're in for some time and expense. But for a little more time and money, you can have a rebuilt top end and an engine that will likely go another 200K as the bottom end is pretty stout if I am not mistaken. You can also take care of some potentially pesky issues and improve your driveability (vsv, injector cleaning)

My $.02

 

[HarleyHetz]

I'm with everyone else, this doesn't sound like head gasket to me. You have some "heater hoses" that are mounted to the firewall behind the engine, check those very carefully, they would leak down the back of the block and the juice would likely come out between the engine and tranny. Best of luck and GO HOGS!!

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Well, I came home from the dealership laughing last night. Only because, as all of you and myself expected, they diagnosed my truck with "everything-needs-to-be-replaced-itis". Heres the run down

Oil analysis- As someone earlier mentioned, they sent it out----read the readout, no coolant in the oil.

The other shop did, however, find that the valve cover gasket is on its way out, which is obvious upon visual inspection, and leaking a decent amount from the back of the head and at the oil cap.

There is coolant leaking from the hoses towards the back, which I suspect is why there is coolant on the bottom of the engine.

The rear main seal between the tranny and engine, (oil pan arch seal?) is leaking the worst, which is why there is oil mixed in the the coolant.

Toyota of course recommends I fix everything from the head gasket, valve cover gasket, and the rear seal to of course tune-up items like wires, injectors, and the whole shebang of hoses.

Im on the same page as everyone else in wanting to get everything done the right way, while the engine is disassembled, and for the right reasons. Im going back to the shop that apparently did all the leg work and asking them first hand to walk me through everything so I can get a feel for what is really going on. By the way, the dealership quoted me $1700 out the door for everything but the rear main seal with that anteing up the cost another $900. Actually seems sort of reasonable given the quotes Ive heard from others, but I doubt the work would be as comprehensive as others have mentioned theirs being.

Anyways, thanks as usual for the input guys. I just wish I was back in Colorado where all the shops I know best are.

 

[HarleyHetz]

The heater hoses you should be able to handle yourself, that is if you have a 10MM 1/4" drive socket and ratchet, or even a phillips screwdriver for that matter. They are nothing special, you can pick up heater hose from ANY parts house and it will get you back home.
Unless the oil leaks are so bad that you are putting in a quart at every fill up, I'd keep my eye on it and get it back home to someone you trust.
That's my $.02

P.S. Thanks for your service to our country!!!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Get it back home and take it to Robbie Antonson, who is probably the most experienced and best 1FZ mechanic in the country. He goes by Powderpig here, so you could send him a PM. If you want his phone #, send me a PM.

 

[Ebag333]

The rear main seal between the tranny and engine, (oil pan arch seal?) is leaking the worst, which is why there is oil mixed in the the coolant.

Are you positive that is oil in the coolant?

There is a tranny cooler inside the radiator in the lower tank. More than one has started leaking, allowing tranny fluid into the coolant. It's been misdiagnosed as oil instead of tranny fluid.

If your heater hoses are leaking I would be seriously considering going over the entire cooling system.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I'd spend $50 on tools you'll keep and $20 on bulk hose and replace what's leaking. Then top off the coolant and drive it home to Robbie. That's the best suggestion yet. Don't get sucked into an "I'm from out of town" bill. The final bill will be much bigger than the estimate, my friend. Don't do it. Go home with the truck - nothing seems an issue if you can stop the leaking hose(s).

DougM