Post mortem of 90K: timing belt and water pump

[e9999]

well, we did the 90K maintenance job recently on the 03. Was actually a tad over, maybe 92K or so. Anyway for those who curious about such things and wondering whether the timing belt job is imperative or not:

- the old timing belt looks brand spanking new. Not frayed, not worn, just shiny, beautiful. Looked practically unused. And since we got the rig at 30K with no indication of an early replacement, I'd assume that this is indeed the original. That's one more data point for those wondering how bad these are at 90K... Oh well...

- we also did the water pump. Now there was something not quite right about that one. The gasket did show a break of the plastic bead, with some rust starting out on the metal. So I don't think that the bead was broken during removal. (Job was done at the dealer. They mumbled something do the effect that there was some leakage but I don't quite trust them fully on this since there were some conniptions about the cost of the water pump service (long story).) I would imagine that the plastic bead is indeed important for coolant sealing since the rest of the gasket is flat metal. So there the R&R of the pump may indeed have been a good thing? Thoughts about the state of the thing?

Some pics for your enjoyment:

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

It’s my belief that Toyota underestimated the life of the TB. 130K is the number I come up after researching the TB replacement. Not because the belt needs replacing but 125K-130K is when I have seen the most water pump leakage starting. I was not worried about waiting until 130K to replace my TB because I could not find any good data on any TB braking at any mileage. In my case at 130K the pump did show signs of slight weeping. As for the TB, just like E9999s it look great even at 130K. At the same time I replaced all 3 pulleys along with all the other stuff along the way. I feel I’m good for another 130K before I mess with it again.

If its not a secret what all did your Stealership do and what did they charge?

 

[calamaridog]

If its not a secret what all did your Stealership do and what did they charge?

Our fearless leader better not be holding back on us

I too am doing mine around 130k Very soon actually.

 

[e9999]

I actually got worried looking at the TB, thinking that maybe they may have put the old one back in and given us the new one. Wouldn't be surprised... I must have looked at it for 15 mins with magnifying glasses. I was finally a bit reassured in that
- the writing on the back looked like it may have been painted once and then faded off (is it bright paint on the new ones?)
- there a few tiny threads on the side that looked like it may not have been if new
- one side of the teeth looked a bit less shiny than the other...

still...

any idea what happens if the plastic bead is ruptured at that location on the pump gasket?

sorry, I better not talk about the cost issue cuz it involves the and she thinks it is likely to give me yet another ulcer and she is right...



oh, and it's not likely that Toy would have "underestimated" the life expectancy of the belt, I would think, more likely their lawyers will have had them state that, given the interference nature of the engine... and I am sure they are not that sorry that many folks will drop a few large ones on their dealers every 90K....

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

<SNIP>


sorry, I better not talk about the cost issue cuz it involves the and she thinks it is likely to give me yet another ulcer and she is right...



oh, and it's not likely that Toy would have "underestimated" the life expectancy of the belt, I would think, more likely their lawyers will have had them state that, given the interference nature of the engine... and I am sure they are not that sorry that many folks will drop a few large ones on their dealers every 90K....

Since when did lawyers know anything about Cruisers

Looks to be a hint in there somewhere

What all did they replace?

 

[Trunk Monkey]

any idea what happens if the plastic bead is ruptured at that location on the pump gasket?

It leaks.

 

[e9999]

Since when did lawyers know anything about Cruisers

Looks to be a hint in there somewhere

What all did they replace?

just the TB and WP as major stuff. I had also suggested to check the pulleys, but I never heard about that one...

depends on how large large ones are...

Do you really want to talk about lawyers like that with you know who lurking on this forum...?

 

[e9999]

It leaks.

that's not enough to worry a true cruiserhead... there better be some explosion too...

 

[Trunk Monkey]

that's not enough to worry a true cruiserhead... there better be some explosion too...

Ok, you let it leak long enough, you get the explosion.

 

[calamaridog]

:wow:

This thread went downhill fast. All this talk of lawyers and stuff.

I'm looking forward to seeing what my belt and water pump look like at 130k.

 

[NMuzj100]

EDIT - the Toyota maintenance schedules on the web still recommend changing the TB at 90k. For 2004 models and up the time interval is increased from 72 month to 108 months. Feel free to ignore the original comment below.

2001 + have the TB service recommended at 120k from Mr. T.

The part didn't change. I imagine they set a very conservative interval at first and then received the same reports as we are getting here. "Looks like new, why are we changing it?"

 

[slimbuddha]

I have a '99 and 70k on the clock. At the rate I am putting miles on the clock, it'll be another 3-4 years before i hit the 90k mark. I am figuring on doing it sometime late next year.. or spring of 2009.

At that point it'll be at the 10yr age mark.

 

[e9999]

2001 + have the TB service recommended at 120k from Mr. T.

The part didn't change. I imagine they set a very conservative interval at first and then received the same reports as we are getting here. "Looks like new, why are we changing it?"

do you have a reference for this 120K figure? cuz I've only seen 90K mentioned for TB


wasn't there a thread here that showed a TB that was frayed at 90K?

 

[Raindrop]

I have a '99 and 70k on the clock. At the rate I am putting miles on the clock, it'll be another 3-4 years before i hit the 90k mark. I am figuring on doing it sometime late next year.. or spring of 2009.

At that point it'll be at the 10yr age mark.

First off want to say Thanks! to all the members of the forum that post this great information. I have been lurking around the forum for quite some time gaining information about cruisers and finallly decided to join.

I have a 99 Hundy that I purchased new for my wife as a primary driver weekend fun car with the intention of buying an FJ60 as a build project that never got off the ground. Recently I replaced my wife's daily driver despite her wanting to keep her 99 hundy with a GX470. The net result is that I now have her/ my 99 to eventually build out. It only has 53K on the clock and is in great condition. Now I can finally get to the point of this post. Even though it only has 53K on the odometer, I was planning on doing the full boat 90K service, along with the waterpump replacement, fluid changes, etc. etc.

The vehicle has always been serviced at the dealer and the quote for the full 90K service , along with the waterpump, replacing the coolant instead of just flushing, cam cover gaskets, etc is around $1200. That is for all of the service work I have seen people recommend on the various threads here for services around 90K. I currently have ZERO problems, but since I am planning on keeping this cruiser for my fun and really bad weather travel I figure it is better to be proactive. Am I jumping the gun and doing too much too soon?

Thanks again for all the great posts and information here.

 

[e9999]

First off want to say Thanks! to all the members of the forum that post this great information. I have been lurking around the forum for quite some time gaining information about cruisers and finallly decided to join.

I have a 99 Hundy that I purchased new for my wife as a primary driver weekend fun car with the intention of buying an FJ60 as a build project that never got off the ground. Recently I replaced my wife's daily driver despite her wanting to keep her 99 hundy with a GX470. The net result is that I now have her/ my 99 to eventually build out. It only has 53K on the clock and is in great condition. Now I can finally get to the point of this post. Even though it only has 53K on the odometer, I was planning on doing the full boat 90K service, along with the waterpump replacement, fluid changes, etc. etc.

The vehicle has always been serviced at the dealer and the quote for the full 90K service , along with the waterpump, replacing the coolant instead of just flushing, cam cover gaskets, etc is around $1200. That is for all of the service work I have seen people recommend on the various threads here for services around 90K. I currently have ZERO problems, but since I am planning on keeping this cruiser for my fun and really bad weather travel I figure it is better to be proactive. Am I jumping the gun and doing too much too soon?

Thanks again for all the great posts and information here.

Welcome officially to the site!

hard question to answer.
The answer is probably depending on how much $1200 is for you. If it's not hurting too much and you have no pressing need to buy stuff with the $$, well, it can't hurt anything to do it and could possibly prevent a very costly failure.
Then again, you'll hear a number of different opinions, no doubt.

One point I'd like to make is that most of us here (myself included) seem to be fixated on the mileage of parts. But in reality, the manufacturer always say xx miles or xx months. There is a good reason for that and that is that some parts do wear out or get damaged / modified by time alone, regardless of mileage. Rubber would fall in that category I believe. Example : tires. You may have only 10K on 10 years old tires, but I would bet that they are cracked. OK, so the TB is a different part but it's no big stretch to think that after 10 years, it may have aged significantly too. FWIW, the Toy maintenance guide says 90K or 72 months. That's only 6 years! If your 99 was made in 98, you're already 3 years past the recommended interval...

Basically, you will only find guesses here based on what information we have (and this is undoubtedly the place with most experts on 100s around, not counting Toy R&D), but nobody knows what your belt looks like. One thing you could do is to have a quick peek via cover removal, and that will for sure tell you if it's bad. Won't tell you if it's good, though.

So in the end, it's a game of guesses, probabilities, and propensity for risk taking.

Your call!

 

[Trunk Monkey]

With the inclusion of the water pump and other gaskets that's a decent price. I was quoted $1k just for the 90k, no plugs, no water pump. Just timing belt and other usual stuff.

 

[FirstToy]

with all due respect to landcruiserphil (whos opinion i respect very much reading this forum) I don't think you should second guess the factory recommendations too much. It is, afterall, an interference engine. Conditions each vehicle has been in can vary wildly, as the condition of the timing belts at certain mileages.

I totally agree that I have not heard of many if at all - toyota TB's breaking on the 100. but Mud is a very small pool of owners. still, if it were me, I would not sweat it and be 100K-ish on it but not much more than that! Obviously Toyota built in a safety of replacement before the belt is totally worn but 100K miles for a piece of rubber spinning 3-5K rpms sounds prudent. JMO

Eric,
Curious if you inspected the belt carefully?
-the outside for cracks or frays (you must bend the belt to see)
-the toothside for any wear (again, bend at each tooth to inspect)
-also while on the cogs, see how much the belt has stretched, if any.

usually those are the signs of a wearing belt. maybe i'm extra cautious because my car is an interference engine/TB but just the peace of mind maybe worth the money.

edit-
also curious how the TB is tensioned?

missed that Nmuj100 said 120K for TB interval, in that case I guess LCPhil's 130K isnt off the mark

 

[Raindrop]

e9999,

Thanks for the kind response and additional background. While $1200 is not chump change, it is not too painful either. Especially given the dollars associated IF the TB failed. As far as other age based items, I originally pulled the wheels and tires at the time of purchase and replaced them with a set of moderately blingy Detata 16"( only option available in 99) with BFG AT/KOs with the idea that it would provide the best wintertime travel tire. While they were great offroad, I have to say I was disappointed in the wear and their traction capabilities in deep snow. I know that is counter to what I read in a lot of the tire threads here on the forums, but the reality is the replacement set of Michelin LTX M/S actually provided better wintertime driving conditions. I replaced the BFG AT/KOs at around 16,000 miles, and even though I had 50% tread lift on the Michelin LTX 275/70/16s I just replaced them again with another new set.

I am gradually tweaking the hundy right now, first step was to pull the WAAG "mall guard" items I put on off, then the next step I am going to replaced the running boards with Slee sliders and do a Bilstein shock upgrade ( probably won't do a lift). I have the original factory wheels ( I gave the new tires to an employee for his 2000 Tundra ~including the spare) and plan on buying an agressive off road tire for the factory wheels for summer activiites. I actually planned on doing that first, but my tire guy recommended that I stay with the LTX for the highway snow conditions that I was worried about. I will probably get the REVO 285/75/16s on the stock 16" wheels for "fun trips" offroad.

Since I have several other cars to drive, the hundy will probably only get 5,000 miles per year MAX so at that point I would probably not reach the 90K mark for another 8 years which I think is tempting fate too much. While I would have rather had a slightly newer cruiser for the improved front differential reliability and more horsepower, my 99 is in just too nice of condition. It wouldn't make sense to sell mine for what 99's are bringing( although the service guy at the dealership offered me over 20K for it) and then buy a slightly newer hundy for the slight improvements. So with all that being said, it seems to make sense to spend the money and do the full service now so I don't have to worry about it later. Even if I find another project vehicle to consider, it would seem that the low miles and full service records I could recoup at least part of the cost of the extra services.

 

[e9999]

snip

Eric,
Curious if you inspected the belt carefully?
-the outside for cracks or frays (you must bend the belt to see)
-the toothside for any wear (again, bend at each tooth to inspect)
-also while on the cogs, see how much the belt has stretched, if any.

snip

missed that Nmuj100 said 120K for TB interval, in that case I guess LCPhil's 130K isnt off the mark

FT:
yes, I looked at it very carefully. No sign of cracking anywhere. Only a few minor loose tufts of thread on the side. Yes, one side of the tooth seems a little less shiny than the other, but no visible material worn off other than that. There are 2 teeth that have some visible discrete thread loops but these are from manufacturing IMO (at exact 180 deg from each other). No idea on stretching. I'd like to see the material that says 120K. Until then, I have only read 90K.

 

[FirstToy]

thanks eric, how is the TB tensioned? is there a seperate tensioner or one of the pulleys?

the thing I'm getting at is that sometimes the tensioner will fail, not the belt, but same net effect. if the 100 doesn't have a seperate tensioner (or a failsafe one), than no worries.