Yes Torsion Bars

[cybrstar]

I know that the torsion bars have been discussed many times before but I just went wheeling yesterday and I just do not understand how and why the torsion bars act the way that it does.

A little about the Hundy, It has a bull bar and some armor maybe only about 150lbs on the front end. Stock torsion bars have been tightened to regain stock height plus 1 inch (so the torsion bars are tightened all the way to compensate for the weight, no reindexing yet).

Okay, so why won't the lower control arm touch the bumpstops? no matter how much compression is on the front tire, it would stop about an inch or so before hitting the bumpstops and the weight would transfer to the rear where I have tons of flex.

How can I use all the compression up front. If I:

a) put new torsion bars like OME (28.5mm) how would bigger bars help compression. Wouldn't it be worse considering it is a heavier spring?

b) wear out the stocks (kinda riding springy and stiff) to allow it to be more flexible.

c) remove front sway bars.

Here are a couple of pictures on this issue. As you can see the tire has about an inch before it is even tucked under the fender. And neither picture the bumpstop is about 1-1/2 inch from touching the control arm.

 

[yotasavg]

Disconnecting the front sway bar will help. Quick disco's are on my list for sure. If I'm doing more than just running a fire road I'll get under there with a socket and undo one side. Always been worth crawling in the dirt for a minute to me. Been doing that for years, even on my previous 4Runner. Just remember to put it back on before you hit the highway.

 

[Hayes]

Front antisway bar really fights the front end.
I regularly wheel with mine disconnected, and have had my lower arms on the bump stops many times.

 

[Hayes]

 

[cybrstar]

Thanks for the reply's. So I'll definitely disconnect my front sway bars.

But since we're on the subject on wheel compression travel, I remembered when I owned my first ifs TOYOTA 4Runner too and how to gain as much travel in the front end, I know it's ifs...
But do you guys think if you run a lower bump stop like this would gain a little more uptravel?
Would the cv's handle the angle?

I'm running the diff drop and 33's.

Also when owning the ifs I remembered that you can get a little lift by ball joint spacers. Are there companies that make them or even ball joints that can handle greater angles?

These are two key points I think to get a little more travel in our front ends.

 

[Hayes]

You'd need to look at the ball joints and inferences on the arms before messing with the bump stops. You're also likely going to hit the compression limit on your shocks.

Most concern with the Hundy front end is the lack of droop, rather than compression--we gain compression and lose droop travel when we lift.

 

[cybrstar]

In regards to droop....

Does anyone make a upper ball joint that can handle a "longer" travel shock?

And if I remember correctly now our upper ball joint is a press in style, so a spacer would not work in our situation.

Or make a spacer that is both male and female. Just press it I the top and onto a ball joint. Wouldn't that work for lift and droop? Have caster built into them....

I know I'm asking a lot. Is there a market for something like this?

 

[yotasavg]

I've always thought about the ball joint spacers too, since I had them on my 4Runner. By spacing the spindle down, and lower control arm by nature, you're getting a bit of ride height lift, but also the wheel now sits lower on the same amount of droop measured at the angle of the upper control arm. I'd think there'd be a market, but I don't believe such a product exists. I'd be stoked if someone came up with a similar solution... I also still don't see why a Blazeland type setup wouldn't work, but now I'm getting off topic...

 

[yotasavg]

Or possibly a better idea could be a full aftermarket upper control arm that also spaces the ball joint down more? Like an inch? I'm also realizing now that our torsion bars mount on the lower control arm vs. the top. I'm not sure how that would factor in...

 

[cybrstar]

Yeah aftermarket upper control arms would be good but I think as a price point I would rather buy sliders.

And your right the stuff we can buy now is just an aftermarket stock control arm that has adjustments for lifts and does nothing in regards to longer droop. As I recall the aftermarket adjustable uca has the STOCK Toyota ball joint.....

So as of right now we're stuck with what we have. It is a pretty darn good wheeler for the size (not gonna be taking it to the RUBICON if you ask me) if you don't lift it too high so you can actually use your travel and not stiffening things up up in the front. Just armor up!

Thanks guys!

Now who has the mechanical ability to try and make some of those spacers????

 

[Hayes]

Yeah aftermarket upper control arms would be good but I think as a price point I would rather buy sliders.

And your right the stuff we can buy now is just an aftermarket stock control arm that has adjustments for lifts and does nothing in regards to longer droop. As I recall the aftermarket adjustable uca has the STOCK Toyota ball joint.....

So as of right now we're stuck with what we have. It is a pretty darn good wheeler for the size (not gonna be taking it to the RUBICON if you ask me) if you don't lift it too high so you can actually use your travel and not stiffening things up up in the front. Just armor up!

Thanks guys!

Now who has the mechanical ability to try and make some of those spacers????

The Nitro UCAs claim the ability to accommodate additional droop with a long travel shock.

The configuration of the arm at the frame-side joints is a limiting factor, as the arm can contact the gussets on the frame. The Nitro arms are a little different in this regard.