Yaesu FT-7900 or FT-8800

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1911 said:
I agree in most instances. Why give up one of the major benefits of ham (10-20X the power) over other services? If all you're ever going to do is ride right behind someone else on the trail, and you live/drive near some repeaters that are way up high, then a 5-Watt HT may do you just fine - but the first time you are separated from your trail group, or have more than one trail group, or find yourself out-of-range of a repeater, you'll wish you had a mobile instead. If you don't want to drill holes for a permanent antenna, then use a mag mount.
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You know this is all about antenna. A 50 watt versus a 5 watt transceiver, all other variables the same, is 7 DBm. Saying its 10x more powerful may mislead the new guys. I have and use both types of units on the trails and my point which remains is an HT is very useful outside of the rig and can be very effective with an external antenna for situations needing additional distance (gain). I have yet to need to turn up the power on my ft350ar more than 5 watts.

I think your comment should be "the first time you are separated from your group you'll wish you had an high gain external antenna."

I'm not trying to say one thing is better than another, I leave that up to the more opinionated members, I'm saying consider the options.

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
 
rusty_tlc said:
Just saying that in my opinion an HT is a poor choice for a first radio for off road use. I think Drew was pretty specific about why.

The facts are the buttons are fiddely, the menus are hard to navigate, and HT's are low power compared to a mobile unit.

I have used an FT-60. I also own an VX-7R which is an awesome radio, I use it fairly often when hiking or if I ride along with a Non-ham on the trail. Still not the best choice for a first radio IMHO.
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Sure Drew was specially general. An FT60 menus and programs just like an FT2900. Even the ergonomics are just as simple. The audio output of an FT 60 is pretty damn good. That leaves output power as the big factor. That's not a big deal relative to an antenna selection in FM. The mounting options for a HT exceed a mobile.

As a vx 8dr owner I can say it would be a poor choice for an off road radio. The vx series are super fiddley and difficult to use. And the audio is poor.

I love having my mobile unit and I'm not trying to talk someone into or out of one but to say " listen kid you need this 75watt mobile or nothin" isn't giving the whole story.

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
 
JamesR said:
If you're going to buy an HT for your first radio and use it in your vehicle, I suggest an HT with a BNC antenna mount. It's easier to attach an external (mag or permanent mount) antenna to the radio. At least I found it to be easier. An external speaker and hand mic/headset are also good additions. I bought a dual band HT as my first radio and used it mobile for about a year. I bought an amplifier (5 watts in around 45 out) at a ham fest, external speaker, trunk mount antenna, and hand mic. It was a small hassle to hook up the coax, amp, speaker jack, each time I entered and exited the vehicle but I didn't want to buy a mobile until I knew what I wanted.
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You took the HT experience all the way. There are some good points. The bnc connector is certainly faster but is anyone using them anymore? Both my Yaesu are sma.

Good point about entering and exiting the vehicle... You had the option. Mobile wont do that. :)

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
 
RobRed said:
I have yet to need to turn up the power on my ft350ar more than 5 watts.
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I guess it depends on where you wheel; I've been in the southern Utah back country where 65 watts wouldn't get out on 2M.


RobRed said:
I think your comment should be "the first time you are separated from your group you'll wish you had an high gain external antenna."
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OK fine. My comments were with regard to first radios for new beginners - since most HT's don't come with high-gain external antennas, perhaps I am oversimplifying things.


RobRed said:
I'm not trying to say one thing is better than another, I leave that up to the more opinionated members, I'm saying consider the options.
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Fair enough. I only offer my opinion that a 2M mobile is a better choice for a first trail radio (after owning and using both).
 
RobRed said:
You know this is all about antenna. A 50 watt versus a 5 watt transceiver, all other variables the same, is 7 DBm. Saying its 10x more powerful may mislead the new guys. I have and use both types of units on the trails and my point which remains is an HT is very useful outside of the rig and can be very effective with an external antenna for situations needing additional distance (gain). I have yet to need to turn up the power on my ft350ar more than 5 watts.

I think your comment should be "the first time you are separated from your group you'll wish you had an high gain external antenna."

I'm not trying to say one thing is better than another, I leave that up to the more opinionated members, I'm saying consider the options.

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
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Much of it may come down to where and how you travel. Where I live it isn't uncommon for the first truck and the last truck to be separated by 20+ miles maybe even more if it is a large group. I also travel with a mixed bag of trucks, it isn't uncommon for the group to split so the less equipped rigs can take a milder route. In these conditions there certainly is a difference between 50 (65W for many mobiles) and 5W. I agree that antenna selection is key in the performance of any radio, however watts is watts. If the radio can't deliver the power the best antenna on the market won't help.

BTW antenna gain is not typically given in dBm, it is given in dBi or dBd.

Gain is defined as dB is 10log(Pout/Pin), all antennas will have an absolute gain of less than 1.

dBm is ; 10log(Pout/1mW) which compares power output to 1mW, it is typically used to measure the out put of low power devices such as VCO's.

dBi is ; 10log(Pout/Piso) where Piso is an ideal isotropic antenna
dBd is ; 10log(Pout/Pdipole) where Pdipole is an ideal Dipole antenna

These two are comparisons of an antenna to ideal antennas.
 
DBm was referenced to radio output power difference.

Watts is watts but line of site is line of site... An FRS on top of a 5000 foot mountain will hit 30 miles.

I wasn't stating that 50 (or 65) watts isnt greater or better - I simply pointed out that it's not 20x more powerful in terms of radio propagation. When you tell a guy who may be new or less informed he might assume some things.

Back to my point - a HT is a viable first radio with some other advantages that a mobile doesn't possess. I dont have a horse in this race other than I think it's rash to simply say one thing is better than another in this application.
 
I'm just going to jump in here with an opinion. My first radio (and my only so far) is a HT VX-7R. I have so far had no need to use a mobile in my wheeling, although have been looking and when I get the funds, I will put one in. My needs for a radio had me more outside the car, hiking/climbing, backcountry stuff and lead me to specifically choose a HT over a mobile for the first radio. I've never had any problems not being heard or not reaching someone, and it is advantageous to be able to walk around with it, move it from vehicle to vehicle easily and loan it out. However, if I was to be only wheeling with it, or meeting up with people from a long distance away for a camping trip or something that I didn't need to use hiking; I would choose a mobile first.

Both are awesome first radios, however it is up to you to decide what your needs are when you are deciding. I think my next is the 8800 for the cross band repeat, but have also looked at the 350.
 
RobRed said:
DBm was referenced to radio output power difference.

Watts is watts but line of site is line of site... An FRS on top of a 5000 foot mountain will hit 30 miles.

I wasn't stating that 50 (or 65) watts isnt greater or better - I simply pointed out that it's not 20x more powerful in terms of radio propagation. When you tell a guy who may be new or less informed he might assume some things.

Back to my point - a HT is a viable first radio with some other advantages that a mobile doesn't possess. I dont have a horse in this race other than I think it's rash to simply say one thing is better than another in this application.
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Sorry, I misread your post. However a 7dBm difference is significant when we are using a logarithmic scale. IMHO most newbies are confused by dB so I'm not sure they are the best units to use with new operators.

As I stated; it may come down to usage, in my experience, under the conditions I'm use to, an HT is probably not the best choice for a first radio. For you or another person it may be a good choice.

Is the horse dead yet?:lol:
 
Thanks for all the info guys, I've actually decided that the best radio for my needs is neither of these. I never found my choice until this post got rolling.
I've decided to go with the Yaesu FTM-350AR. It's pricey but is easy to navigate, dual band, has APRS, remote head, Bluetooth, a line in jack (connect the iPod, use the external speaker jack into car stereo input), can add GPS, can connect mic to either head unit or base and best of all it's cross band repeat.
If I decided to get an HT the FTM-350 AR will be the repeater, so the issue of an HT only having 5w is mute.
 
OB said:
Thanks for all the info guys, I've actually decided that the best radio for my needs is neither of these. I never found my choice until this post got rolling.
I've decided to go with the Yaesu FTM-350AR. It's pricey but is easy to navigate, dual band, has APRS, remote head, Bluetooth, a line in jack (connect the iPod, use the external speaker jack into car stereo input), can add GPS, can connect mic to either head unit or base and best of all it's cross band repeat.
If I decided to get an HT the FTM-350 AR will be the repeater, so the issue of an HT only having 5w is mute.
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Nice. I have the 350 it's a good unit. You'll want to add GPS right away to play with APRS.

Sent from my iPad 2 using IH8MUD
 
Ahh, good, someone that I can pick the brain of.
I'm not fully understanding the APRS thing. I downloaded an app for my android phone and I get the basic idea-it looks like it can track your movements and you can see those around you with APRS equipped radios. Nice way to know exactly where someone is on a map.
Did you add the GPS module to yours or did you add the cable to a compatible GPS device. How do I know what GPS devices are compatible with the unit?
 
I thought you could connect a standalone GPS to it like a garmin nuvi using the connection cable, not the Yaesu GPS add on things.
Also, what antenna are you using?
 
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OB said:
I thought you could connect a standalone GPS to it like a garmin nuvi using the connection cable, not the Yaesu GPS add on things.
Also, what antenna are you using?
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You can connect an external gps via yeasu data cable. But why not spend the extra on the module that way you're not stuck having to use you're nuvi.

I use two different antenna; a diamond 770 and a comet sbb1, depending on what I'm doing. The comet is a short rubber duck and the diamond is a 40" whip. For around town and general trail comms I use the comet. When max performance is needed I go diamond. I'm using a diamond k412 hatch mount with nmo connector on my 100 series.

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Excellent, I'll look into those. My last question ( I think ) is this...
I know the ftm350ar is a dual band. Does this mean I can monitor two channels simultaneously such as a 2m trail channel and the other set on a 2m repeater? Will I have the ability to transmit on those two channels also or just one?
 
Thanks again for all the info. I checked with advanced specialties in lodi for a mud discount, price on the radio was $560, if I gave an out of state address there would be no tax but an $8 "shipping fee."
 
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