Water in the Way Back (1 Viewer)

[sheptastic]

I'm stumped and concerned. I removed my 3rd row seats and seatbelts a few weeks ago when I ordered my drawers. When I did that I found some moisture under the seats. Seats were a bit damp, the floor on the driver's side was damp, and there was standing water in the floor grommets circled in red and blue. I didn't find any mold or indication that it was a "huge"/persistent issue at the time. I dried it up, cleaned everything and installed the Kilmat for sound deadening. Yesterday, it was pouring rain (as it does in the Pacific Northwest) and when I opened the rear door there was a spot of water about 3" in diameter on my Weathertech cargo liner about where the grommet in blue is. I thought it was from opening the door in the rain, but when I got home and dried it there was also moisture (droplets) in the blue area under the cargo liner and a bit of standing water in that grommet. Whatever that rubbery stuff is (OEM sound deadener?) it's a bit spongy and I had to press a towel onto it to soak up the water. It wasn't a lot, maybe an ounce in total. I have no idea where it's coming from. I looked in the jack storage area and didn't see any water back there. The door seal seemed dry (it was raining out) and the headliner was dry. Aside from the rear door, I don't know where it could be coming from. No idea how it's wet above and below the cargo liner. We got rain and snow over night so I looked in from the 2nd row door today, and it's dry. I'd like to figure it out before I bolt my rear plate and drawers in and can't access that area to dry it out. Anyone have thoughts or heard of anything similar?

 

[Acrad]

I’m not familiar with reports of leaks coming from underneath in rear aside from water fording. Typically shark fin but since you mentioned removing seat belts I wonder if rear sunroof drains got dislodged. They are those blue lines you probably saw with trim removed,

on right side always clogged 3rd zone HVAV drain but wrong side here…

Have you ever removed any roof hardware? Roof Rail screws?

#Water #Leaks - Interior - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

GX - 2nd Gen (2010-2023) - #Water #Leaks - Interior - So I go to this fancy laser carwash and notice the back of my head getting wet. Seems the back of the moon roof is letting in water when the high pressure jet passes over, it's not a lot but, this never happened to my other vehicles at the...

www.clublexus.com

 

[sheptastic]

I’m not familiar with reports of leaks coming from underneath in rear aside from water fording. Typically shark fin but since you mentioned removing seat belts I wonder if rear sunroof drains got dislodged. They are those blue lines you probably saw with trim removed,

on right side always clogged 3rd zone HVAV drain but wrong side here…

Have you ever removed any roof hardware? Roof Rail screws?

A clogged drain kinda makes sense, and I wonder if I'm dealing with more than one issue - water on top of cargo liner could have a separate source than water underneath. I took a pic when I had the trim removed and the hose looks OK. I first noticed water when I removed the 3rd row, before I removed the trim. Is it possible that the hose (or another one) is blocked so that water drains into the vehicle? Would the ceiling be wet if it was the shark fin? I haven't touched the roof, would that also result in a wet ceiling?

 

[Acrad]

It seems shark fin leaks usually show themselves at the 3rd row seatbelts.

You could have a unique leak here as well. May need to try holding a garden hose to various locations to see if you can see any drips.

 

[sheptastic]

It seems shark fin leaks usually show themselves at the 3rd row seatbelts.

You could have a unique leak here as well. May need to try holding a garden hose to various locations to see if you can see any drips.

@Acrad, this was so helpful. The GX was sitting in the rain in the driveway for a couple of days and no water. It stopped raining and I ran an errand. When I stopped and looked in the back it was wet. "Luckily" my roof side inner garnish caps didn't ship on time so I had a big hole where the seatbelt was to look behind the trim and there were water drops behind the driver's side trim. Water must be getting in from above and when I'm driving it sloshes down the side behind the trim and onto the floor. I'm so glad I took out the third row. Who knows how long it would have taken me to notice.

Long story short, I looked at the shark fin when I got home and it's not sealed to the roof at all. There's like a 1/16" gap between the gasket and the roof. So, how do I tighten it? Or, better yet, can I remove it and mount my GMRS antenna there?

 

[sheptastic]

A quick search looks like I'm going to have to take down the headliner. That's going to take a while. Thanks for putting a hole in my roof Sirius/XM. It's dark, cold, and wet. So for now a tarp will have to do.

 

[MotoDave]

I've read about the 3rd row seatbelts getting wet as a sign of water coming in from aftermarket rack installs too, if the roof rack holes arent sealed up enough.

FYI When I installed my rack one of the nut plates came loose. I found I was able to just pull off the trim around the rear door opening and pull down the headliner enough to get a hand in there - might let you figure out where the leak is without pulling down the whole headliner.

 

[sheptastic]

It's dry today and I've made some progress. Two hours later I've confirmed my shark fin is leaking. Headliner is damp on top, there's moisture on the wires coming from the shark fin, and there was water in a depression on the driver's side inner roof garnish? (the trim where the 3rd row seatbelts are). Seems like water's getting in under the shark fin, following the wires and headliner to the back of the headliner, and then running behind the trim on the driver's side onto the floor in the back. I took the back apart again and pulled the headliner down to the 2nd row roof handles. It creased there, but just a small bit between the handle and the door. I don't know how I'd avoid that and that area seems like the least visible place for it to happen. I ended up breaking the green bracket around the nut for the shark fin. I realize it slides off to the rear now. I'm going to ignore the fact that the roof is 1/4"-1/2" above the cross member near the shark fin and the glue that held it is broken. As well as the rust on some airbag component for the 3rd row. Those things are "probably fine". The 3rd row climate control ducting is really in the way here. I can only see past it to the shark fin with my borescope. I think next steps are to get a 22mm socket and/or wrench (can't believe I don't have one) and unbolt the shark fin. I'm hoping that goes well and it's only that one nut holding it on. I'll then get everything cleaned up and determine how best to seal it. Maybe silicone? Any suggestions or experience with this are appreciated.

 

[sheptastic]

Ended up using an adjustable wrench to take it off. I think it's too far gone to deal with. I'm going to look for a replacement. I crawled under the GX, but I guess I didn't inspect the roof when I bought it. There are some scratches from the rear door, along the roof, to the shark fin. Looks like a previous owner ran into something and probably dislodged the shark fin messing up its seal.

 

[Acrad]

Looks like you made a lot of progress.

This antenna serves satellite radio and the Enform phone services only.

The latter which is being sunset after 10.31.2022.

 

[sheptastic]

Looks like you made a lot of progress.

This antenna serves satellite radio and the Enform phone services only.

The latter which is being sunset after 10.31.2022.

I had mostly found info on T4Rs, and I thought GPS antenna was in there too. I started her up - satellite radio says check antenna/doesn't work, there's a red light for the SOS button, FM radio works, GPS appears to work (unless it's just using my last location), weather data came up, traffic said to check back later. I really don't use any of those things, except FM radio and occasionally navigation (which both seem to work). My sat trial ends in a few days and like you said Enform will sunset soon. I really don't need that antenna. However, I don't know of a better way to seal the roof. I didn't see anything on eBay, but Bell Lexus has a sale right now. I could get a new ANTENNA ASSEMBLY, TELEPHONE (8676060100C1), NUT, ANTENNA (8639647010), and PROTECTOR, TELEPHONE ANTENNA (8726850021) for $180 shipped. Its more than I'd want to spend, but I don't really want to spend anything. The sale is good through the 18th, so I'm going to wait to purchase anything. I'll go with some Gorilla tape and a tarp for now. Any better ideas than a new antenna for plugging those holes?

 

[Acrad]

GPS is situated around the infotainment/Nav unit. It is not part of shark fin antenna.

FM are the wires in the rear side windows around 3rd row

3G shutdown affects Enform on 2010-2018 models.

[Navigation Antenna in dash]

[Satellite Radio and Enform]

[Radio Antennas]

#Shark #Fin Repair - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

GX - 2nd Gen (2010-2023) - #Shark #Fin Repair - So today my wife took our GX into a 6 foot tall parking garage...almost made it, but the shark fin antenna got sheared off and for good measure caused some minor dents as it was pulled/dragged off the roof. I am preparing myself for the worst when...

www.clublexus.com

 

[Acrad]

Delete Kit

Toyota 4Runner Antenna Delete Kit

Want to remove or delete your 4Runner antenna? Our Antenna Delete Kit supports 2010-2022 Toyota 4Runners, and provides a low-profile look when installing our roof top tents.

gofastcampers.com

GX460 Roof Antenna Shark Fin Cover Delete

I searched a lot of threads to try to figure out a good way to create a low profile option for the roof shark fin antenna cover for our 2017 GX460 luxury. I couldn't find an antenna delete thread that clearly showed it working for our GX without removal through the headliner or home brewing a...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Kajun]

@sheptastic I don’t know about the GX or other Toyota/Lexus vehicles but the shark fins on BMWs are adheared to the roof with Sikaflex. It’s like the RV type tacky black roof sealer stuff (see photo)
This may or may not answer your question about best way to seal a shark fin or delete kit but maybe look at it.
If you do get it, use gloves. That crap gets everywhere in a dang hurry.

 

[sheptastic]

Thanks for all of that info @Acrad. I had looked at the GFC option from that ih8mud thread and it looks like their delete kit uses the base of the antenna and rubber gasket. My gasket looks OK and the nut holding the antenna was tight. However, the antenna's seal is compromised. Water had gotten in above and below that gasket, corroding pretty much everything inside and allowed water in the vehicle from below the gasket and through the wiring above. I don't have confidence in reusing any of it. Taking down the headliner isn't fun and it's really going to suck once I get my drawers installed. I don't need the antenna, but I do need a waterproof solution. I think I could make something and cut a new rubber gasket, but I'm guessing it'd take more time than it's worth. A brief search didn't turn up any good options for used Toyota antennas with the gasket. I think replacing it with a new one may be my best option. That's assuming there's no issue with the roof and a new antenna would seal properly.

 

[sheptastic]

@sheptastic I don’t know about the GX or other Toyota/Lexus vehicles but the shark fins on BMWs are adheared to the roof with Sikaflex. It’s like the RV type tacky black roof sealer stuff (see photo)
This may or may not answer your question about best way to seal a shark fin or delete kit but maybe look at it.
If you do get it, use gloves. That crap gets everywhere in a dang hurry.

Thanks. That's along the lines of what I had in mind.

 

[sheptastic]

Well, I'm not sure I can convey how frustrated I am with a brand new shark fin that also leaks and an interior I can't reassemble until I find a solution. I think the roof is messed up and I'll never get a good seal. That location under the headliner is so difficult to get to, I want to be certain it's resolved before I cover it back up. I'm at a loss as to what to do. I'm thinking I may need to see if a body shop can fill those holes somehow. I'm tempted to cut a hole in the headliner for future access. It'd be great if there were some sort of plastic panel I could install that looked somewhat legit. The creases get worse every time I have to pull it down and I don't want to take the entire interior apart to remove it. Any suggestions?

 

[sheptastic]

Hoping this closes the loop on my issue...I think I fixed it. Seemed obvious that the old shark fin wasn't sealed to the roof as there was a gap between the shark fin and the roof at the back. When I installed the new shark fin, it had a similar gap. I felt like the single nut that holds the shark fin wasn't sufficient to pull the shark fin evenly to the roof in order for the gasket to seal all around. I cut a piece of aluminum plate just a bit bigger than the base of the shark fin, mounted that under the roof, and tightened the nut to that plate. Kind of a huge washer. I also ran a bead of Permatex silicone RTV sealant around the inner rib of the shark fin gasket. After cranking that down, there's no more gap between the roof and the shark fin. I let it cure for 24+ hours and hit it with the hose a couple of times. No water inside the vehicle! I just hope it's fixed for good.

 

[Bang Bang]

Thanks for all the info Shep and everyone who contributed. I have no use for the shark fin so it will be coming off soon to be replaced with

Amazon product ASIN B08GL6WY2Z
for the wiring of my solar panel that's going on the roof. (I'm gonna find one in black, though.) This was some great info.

 

[sheptastic]

Before I reassembled the interior for the "last" time, I went through a car wash test. First up was a pressure rinse. I hit the shark fin with the pressure washer from all angles, multiple times. Through the second row, I felt the floor of the way back and it was wet. I told myself: "it's not too bad, just don't pressure wash the shark fin". I then went across the street to the carnival fun house where sumo wrestlers beat your vehicle with wet rags, or so it seems. More water on the floor. I opened the rear door and felt the top of the headliner...it was dry. I removed the shop towel I placed on the headliner under the shark fin...it too was dry. I looked at the rear door and the interior of the door was wet at the top, as was the door seal. I had two leaks. I'm confident I fixed the shark fin, now I just need to replace the door seal.

Living in a place where it rains a lot and vehicles get covered in pollen and conifer needles, this was something that needed to be addressed. I'm feeling a lot better about it. Maybe one day I'll have a garage that actually fits a vehicle.