I have a vacuum leak at the base of the carb in my '84 60 series. When I called the dealer for the gasket he wanted to sell me an insulator for $160. I'm thinking maybe not. What say the Cruiser gods of the forum?
Vac leak at base of carb...what gasket do I need?
- Thread starter MDarius
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The gasket between the base of the carb and insulator is bonded to the insulator and not replaceable. From your pic, it looks like someone may have used RTV or some other gasket maker. All of those get eaten away by gasoline over time.
SOR and others sell a gasket that you can use, if you fix what ever nasty has been already done. You'll have to sand the insulator block flat if it's been gouged or otherwise violated.
SOR and others sell a gasket that you can use, if you fix what ever nasty has been already done. You'll have to sand the insulator block flat if it's been gouged or otherwise violated.
Yep
- Thread starter
- #4
Sweet. May as well do it right, I guess. Has anyone ever calculated how much money you spend on maintenance vs., say....buying a new 4 Runner? 
I'm just kidding. (sort of). Jethro is a part of the family. It'd be like selling my teenager and getting a new one.....wait....
I'm just kidding. (sort of). Jethro is a part of the family. It'd be like selling my teenager and getting a new one.....wait....
Don't think about it. You'll cry.
I'd check the condition of the insulator, first, before buying a new one. May just be the RTV that dissolved, leaving the leak, and the gasket is in good shape. In that case, just make sure it's all flat and reassemble, provided there isn't RTV between the insulator and the intake. If there is, I'd clean that up too, while it's apart.
By the way, if you're desmogged, SOR sells a repro insulator without the surrounding plate that would work. Not as much heat with the smog crap gone, so you can do without that plate for vapor lock. In fact, one of the guys around here, with full Kalif smog, runs with that plate cut off from around the carb insulator with no issues.
Good luck!
I'd check the condition of the insulator, first, before buying a new one. May just be the RTV that dissolved, leaving the leak, and the gasket is in good shape. In that case, just make sure it's all flat and reassemble, provided there isn't RTV between the insulator and the intake. If there is, I'd clean that up too, while it's apart.
By the way, if you're desmogged, SOR sells a repro insulator without the surrounding plate that would work. Not as much heat with the smog crap gone, so you can do without that plate for vapor lock. In fact, one of the guys around here, with full Kalif smog, runs with that plate cut off from around the carb insulator with no issues.
Good luck!
- Thread starter
- #6
I got this back from the dealer when i was confirming which part I need. I thought it might be helpful for the group. Exploded view of carb with OEM part numbers. [Edit: and it was only $24.]
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What was $24 ? The part you highlighted in the diagram? That's not the part you need (unless your issue was not what was posted in your 1st pic). Also, I'd be very surprised if that insulator was still available.
The part you need is not in the above diagram.
The part you need is not in the above diagram.
- Thread starter
- #8
Doh! Yes, the part that is highlighted.
So, I got this picture from SOR. Is the part that I need #2, the black plate?
And you're right about the insulator, I got the last one in the country according to him. Maybe I should just hold onto it. Anybody want to buy an insulator?
So, I got this picture from SOR. Is the part that I need #2, the black plate?
And you're right about the insulator, I got the last one in the country according to him. Maybe I should just hold onto it. Anybody want to buy an insulator?
- Thread starter
- #9
OK. I was just studying the pictures and your comments again. What I thought was a tan gasket in the SOR picture is actually the insulator that is integrated with that black plate. I think I get it.
I am desmogged. So i could just buy the insulator they sell that's shown in the picture for the 9/69-12/74 carb parts, plus a gasket, and skip the more expensive plate+insulator. (Page 042 Land Cruiser Carburetors, Parts, Kits & Gaskets) Yes? Sorry to be so dependent.
I am desmogged. So i could just buy the insulator they sell that's shown in the picture for the 9/69-12/74 carb parts, plus a gasket, and skip the more expensive plate+insulator. (Page 042 Land Cruiser Carburetors, Parts, Kits & Gaskets) Yes? Sorry to be so dependent.
I'll buy the insulator if you don't want it.
Yes, you could just buy the insulator block. Or, you could post in the wanted section for a good used one - there's a lot of those around. If need be, you could just cut off the silver part. Depends on what you want to spend.
I prolly have one around, but it would require searching 3 sheds to find it
Yes, you could just buy the insulator block. Or, you could post in the wanted section for a good used one - there's a lot of those around. If need be, you could just cut off the silver part. Depends on what you want to spend.
I prolly have one around, but it would require searching 3 sheds to find it
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- Thread starter
- #11
I'd rather have someone pay ME, but as it is....I want it done right. This is really the only mechanical problem this beast has and I'd like to keep that kind of record. Right doesn't necessarily mean "just like the factory", it just means I want it to not become a problem because of me.
With that said, you had mentioned sanding the mating surfaces. I could probably just buy the SOR gasket and sand these down and slap it back together, couldn't I? Or does the insulator actually wear and need to be replaced?
With that said, you had mentioned sanding the mating surfaces. I could probably just buy the SOR gasket and sand these down and slap it back together, couldn't I? Or does the insulator actually wear and need to be replaced?
Insulator does not wear, exactly, but could be cracked or who knows what. No way to know without first removing and inspecting. If nothing wrong except the gasket, I'd gently sand on a FLAT surface and use the SOR gaskets before buying the expensive replacement.
I did that on another 60 I had, and used some fuel-proof dope (RC car stuff) to 'bond' the gasket to the insulator. It worked fine (as long as I had the truck), but I wouldn't do it again as it wasn't necessary. Getting it flat with a good straight-edge is the key.
I did that on another 60 I had, and used some fuel-proof dope (RC car stuff) to 'bond' the gasket to the insulator. It worked fine (as long as I had the truck), but I wouldn't do it again as it wasn't necessary. Getting it flat with a good straight-edge is the key.
- Thread starter
- #13
Cool. Thanks. I just got off the phone with the dealership. They said there are actually 22 of those insulators (the wrong part highlighted in .pdf) floating around plus 8 more on order, so no problem getting them. I cancelled the order on the wrong part. I figure unless there's a known design flaw the engineers did things the way they did for a reason and original parts will work best in the end. For a $60 difference less Frankenstein issues to deal with in the future I just ordered the right part. This truck is already a hodge-podge. The more I get into it the more I discover how creative the previous owner was. My next big modification: new fan, fan clutch, and shroud. The existing is off of who-knows-what and I don't think there's a fan clutch. It just spins freely.
I know...this coming from a guy with a desmogged 60. Some issues are just too big to want to fix.
I know...this coming from a guy with a desmogged 60. Some issues are just too big to want to fix.
Do the water pump while you're at it, while the OEM is still available.
Desmogging a 2F does not lower the exhaust manifold temp. If anything it RAISES it due to the EGR system being tossed in the trash.
IMO, the lower carburetor insulator with its integrated metal heat shield should always be used under the carburetor if the stock exhaust manifold is used.
Doing so will help keep the carb cooler... which is a good thing.
IMO, the lower carburetor insulator with its integrated metal heat shield should always be used under the carburetor if the stock exhaust manifold is used.
Doing so will help keep the carb cooler... which is a good thing.
If you've ever put an infrared thermometer on that EGR cooler apparatus, you'll know it fluctuates between hot and fawking hot.... Now I have no idea if this is actually the case, but my poorly educated guess is removing that cooler removes that 'removed' heat from the engine compartment and sends it out the tailpipe ? Like most pre-smog cars ... ?
Maybe someone who actually knows what's going on will chime in
Maybe someone who actually knows what's going on will chime in
Yeah, that's true.
Now I'm wondering too...
An EGR equipped engine will always have EGTs several hundred degrees cooler than a de smogged engine, yet a portion of that exhaust will go through the EGR cooler mounted down on the engine, and be injected back into the intake manifold. That's a lot of heat directly below the carb.
But a non-EGR equipped engine will be running EGTs much higher than a de smogged one, with a corresponding higher exhaust manifold temp...heating up the bottom of the intake several hundred degrees hotter via the manifold flapper heat control valve. That's a lot of heat below the carb too..
I guess the only way to know for sure would be to test the same vehicle with & without EGR and record the temps of the intake after shut down.
Hmmmm
Now I'm wondering too...
An EGR equipped engine will always have EGTs several hundred degrees cooler than a de smogged engine, yet a portion of that exhaust will go through the EGR cooler mounted down on the engine, and be injected back into the intake manifold. That's a lot of heat directly below the carb.
But a non-EGR equipped engine will be running EGTs much higher than a de smogged one, with a corresponding higher exhaust manifold temp...heating up the bottom of the intake several hundred degrees hotter via the manifold flapper heat control valve. That's a lot of heat below the carb too..
I guess the only way to know for sure would be to test the same vehicle with & without EGR and record the temps of the intake after shut down.
Hmmmm
for what its worth, the two gaskets on either side of that insulator plate block are available through Cruiser Outfitters, Kurt can get them for you.
you should be able to peel the old ones off the insulator base block.
the ones I received from Kurt are good quality paper variety.
and while most argue against using anything on them, i used a VERY light coating of Permetex Anerobic # 51813 to ensure a proper seal. The stuff is not affected by gasolines as some of the others can be, and also it only cures in the absence of oxygen, (aka where the parts are tightly mated up together).. so if a tiny bit seeps out into the intake path it remains liquid and will pass through without issue. (which didnt happen and you can verify by looking down the carb barrels) if you havent used Permetex Anerobic before, its absolutely awesome.
you should be able to peel the old ones off the insulator base block.
the ones I received from Kurt are good quality paper variety.
and while most argue against using anything on them, i used a VERY light coating of Permetex Anerobic # 51813 to ensure a proper seal. The stuff is not affected by gasolines as some of the others can be, and also it only cures in the absence of oxygen, (aka where the parts are tightly mated up together).. so if a tiny bit seeps out into the intake path it remains liquid and will pass through without issue. (which didnt happen and you can verify by looking down the carb barrels) if you havent used Permetex Anerobic before, its absolutely awesome.
- Thread starter
- #19
I just thought I'd close this out. I finally got around to installing the insulator plate. It was pretty easy (we made a stubby 12MM wrench for the back nut. Now I have one!) The old one had some kind of goo on it...sealant, or build a gasket or something, plus parts of an old gasket. So, I just made sure the base was clean and put it together without any add in. I'll test it over the next 3,000 miles now and then to see if leaks and make adjustments to the install if needed. Thanks to all of you I'll know how and what adjustments to start with. Thanks for your help.
It idles steady. Weird.
It idles steady. Weird.
