Trinion Seal for a 97 cruiser

[Mikesta]

Les Schwab is going over and above to help us out after a 1200$ break job we had with them.

One of the calipers went bad (front right) and leaked and when they went in (under warranty) to fix it they busted a knuckle bolt off. Then they heleo- something the bolt in (temporary fix). They ordered a new knuckle and trinion seals. What are these? Does anyone have a picture of this stuff archived?

So I asked him how much it would cost to do the trinion seal on the other side and offered to pay him to do it while he had the truck... and he said nothing, they will do it for free for the inconvienience. Havent been to a shop like this. These guys take ownership and go over and beyond the call of duty.

 

[cruiserman]

That would be good if they do the job correctly. Trunion seal would be a birfield seal that installs at the end of the axle housing. They may need to replace the oil seal set, too, which mounts to the back side of the knuckle.

The knuckle is part #13 in this picture from SOR. Scroll down this picture to the axle housing, and the axle seal is part #59.

You've owned 4 cruisers and haven't replaced an axle seal ?

Make sure they pack the knuckle and birfield with moly grease.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Personally, I would not let this happen as there are a lot of things in there that they're not going to have if they don't know the 80. If you want to protect yourself from a royal screw up here, I suggest you politely ask them for a parts list they've ordered and post it here. You will quickly have people pointing out they didn't get this seal, or that gasket, etc.

And there is no such thing as a "trunion seal" on this knuckle. But they will likely start a problem with your lower knuckle bolts if they don't get the new version, etc.

DougM

 

[ryanjl]

Helo-coil. They basically jammed new threads into the hole that the bolt can screw into, definitely a temp fix.

There aren't any trunion seals. The trunion bearings are the pivot point for the left and right rotation the knuckles go through when you turn the wheel.

This pick is from a FJ40, but is essentially the same as an 80:

There will be a bearing, a bearing race, and a single shim on the 80 series, but no seal, on both the top and bottom of the knuckle.

They may just be regreasing the trunion bearing for fear that it got contaminated with the brake fluid. Or it could be another seal and the terminology is off.

 

[OGBeno]

Just have them get the whole front axle job parts for you and then I'd recommend doing it yourself. I wouldn't--after seeing the labor-intensive activities that go into doing the front axle job--let anyone but myself do the job. Seriously. It's that important.

The trunions basically have, as others have posted, a shim which shouldn't really have to be adjusted/replaced. When I did my front axle job, you take the shims out to get to the bearing/race, replace the bearing race set, put the shims back on and tighten up according to the FSM...

Les Schwag screwed up a brake job... I wouldn't let them touch a thing after that. Not even tires.

Just my .02. Good luck dude.
-onur
Akron, OH

 

[montocr]

Diff work near Kirkland, WA

Be certain that the tech knows how to do this, as I suspect you may end up with more problems. If you need someone to sort this out, just ask them if they know of an awesome Ring & Pinion place in Everett.

 

[Mikesta]

Thanks for all the replies. and the links. I would love to rip into my front end and do this stuff...

From your experiences How much time do you think it would take to rebuild both sides?

Also, what is the cost for the whole front axle kit... is the kit just the washers, rubbers and bearings or?

Thanks again

 

[OGBeno]

Hey Mikesta:

If you haven't worked on your truck before and you are an average mechanic, I'd say about a day/ day and 1/2.

If you were like me when I attempted this, I started on a Saturday AM, worked till about 9pm. Slept in the garage I was working at, woke up around noon on Sunday, got to work around 1pm and worked till about 12am. Slept till about 4am and worked again till about 3 in the afternoon the next day. I was cleaned up, and out of the garage by 6pm on Monday--so roughly 2 days total.

The parts, looking at my invoice from Dan: $197. and add about another $50 or so for greases, gear oils, clean up material, parts cleaners;

I'd say go for it man...seriously, looking back now, I never thought I could do something like that...looking forward, I don't feel intimidated by anything doing with the truck--Dan's an incredible part resource (as well as a good tech guy) and the knowledge and good people willing to help is priceless....

Best.
-onur
Akron, OH

 

[ryanjl]

With the amount of information floating around on the web, and with the descriptions in the Toyota FSM, it's a pretty straightforward task. Just really messy more than anything else..

That said, if the shop is offering to do it for you, get a list of everything it is they are going to do before you take it in. There is an off-chance (haha) that they'll do it right, so if they are doing it for free, might as well let them if they know what they are doing.

 

[elmariachi]

That said, if the shop is offering to do it for you, get a list of everything it is they are going to do before you take it in. There is an off-chance (haha) that they'll do it right, so if they are doing it for free, might as well let them if they know what they are doing.

However, the term "trunion seal", if that's what the shop said, is interesting. They may think that there is a gasket on the lower bearing retainer, because oil is dripping through the felt gaskets and down onto the 4 nuts, giving the appearance of a leak there. I'd be careful letting just anybody tear into that assembly.

Jim

 

[semlin]

-by yourself both sides about 12-14 hours first time. that is why shops cheat.

-the shop I paid to do this job the first time took numerous shortcuts and charged me full frieght. Shortcuts include reusing seals, using silicone instead of gaskets, not removing, inspecting and repacking or replacing the trunnion or wheel bearings. I had to do the whole thing myself afterwards. Save yourself the hassle and the uncertainty.

-there is a complete parts list posted here by beowulf for the job a couple of years back. Search on "timken" and his name and it should come up. Get Les Schwab to give you the new knuckle, pay for all those parts from Toyota and do the labour yourself. It's a better deal for everyone.

 

[Mikesta]

Talked to the Shop a few minutes ago and called him on the Trunion seal. He wasnt sure if it did have one. Also, they have one guy do the landcruiser (he said this is the only truck they see with this setup). I told him thats why its the best 4x4 too. He also wasnt sure where he was going to get the parts so I sent him the http://www.sor.com/sor/cat080b.tam?xax=29261 link. Although looking back think they should be Toyota NOS parts. I would absolutely love to tackle this type of job, but with my schedule... cant forsee 12 hours of free time in the next 2 months. I know I would be on top of the world completing it as a few of you have stated. Thanks for all the advise/help!

 

[IdahoDoug]

So the guy "isn't sure" if there's a.........

Man, I dunno. I'm sitting here shaking my head wondering what your knuckle's gonna look like. I posted my advice to you above to get the parts list and post it. This has saved others who were immediately told by people on the list that have had their 80 knuckles apart that "this is missing, this is missing, etc" and I stand by that advice. Believe me when I state categorically that Toyota Certified mechanics screw this up. And you're gonna let a tire shop guy do it. You have an opportunity to get that parts list and save yourself a whole heap of trouble, but if you actually GAINED confidence by being told he's "not sure if it did have one.." and that they have ONE guy who does LC's, and that the LC is the ONLY truck they see with this setup (I am not a mechanic and I can think if at least 8 vehicles in 3 seconds), then hey - it's your dime.

Best of luck to you on it. Really.

DougM

 

[Darwood]

You have an opportunity to get that parts list and save yourself a whole heap of trouble, but if you actually GAINED confidence by being told he's "not sure if it did have one.." and that they have ONE guy who does LC's, and that the LC is the ONLY truck they see with this setup (I am not a mechanic and I can think if at least 8 vehicles in 3 seconds), then hey - it's your dime.

Doug,

not meaning to call you out here, but I can only think of 3 other vehicles with this setup, and they are all Land Rovers. I'm more curious than anything as to which other vehicles have this setup. What are the other ones? Honestly this is a sincere question. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want to know.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Derek,

All models and all years of LandCruisers, all models and all years of Land Rovers, Suzuki Samurai, and I *think* all heavy duty full size Fords and Chevrolet/GMCs pickups used them some years back. Not counting various heavy duty mining, rescue and other vehicles I would not expect a Les Schwab to see. Seems like I saw them on something else that surprised me, but can't think of it. Which reminds me, I'm not questioning the talents of LS stores in general - I use them and think they're the best thing to happen to tire stores.

DougM

 

[Mikesta]

Like I said... Free time... and If they screw it up... I'll make them get me a new fzj80 40th with lockers

 

[MikeB]

The Nissan Patrols with solid front axles have basicly the same steering knuckle and suspension setups as Land Cruisers. They probably don't see too many at the tire store in WA though.

Mike

 

[Darwood]

Derek,

All models and all years of LandCruisers, all models and all years of Land Rovers, Suzuki Samurai, and I *think* all heavy duty full size Fords and Chevrolet/GMCs pickups used them some years back. Not counting various heavy duty mining, rescue and other vehicles I would not expect a Les Schwab to see. Seems like I saw them on something else that surprised me, but can't think of it. Which reminds me, I'm not questioning the talents of LS stores in general - I use them and think they're the best thing to happen to tire stores.

DougM

Didn't realize the Samies had the closed knucle design. I do however know that the Disco Series II's don't have the same knuckle design. They went to open knuckles for that series, which was a good indication to me that Land Rover designs were going to get worse.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Really. Heh - something else I get to give my brother crap about as he has a DII.

One interesting thing on at least some LR birf setups is they use gear oil. To change it out, there's a plug so you can drain it like a diff. Boy would I like to do that vs pull a LC birf to repack with grease, eh? They have other issues with this, not the least of which a deteriorating seal instantly immobilizes you where on the LC it's a warning to tend to it in the next few thousand miles, but still.....a guy can dream, eh?

DougM

 

[ryanjl]

Really. Heh - something else I get to give my brother crap about as he has a DII.

One interesting thing on at least some LR birf setups is they use gear oil. To change it out, there's a plug so you can drain it like a diff. Boy would I like to do that vs pull a LC birf to repack with grease, eh? They have other issues with this, not the least of which a deteriorating seal instantly immobilizes you where on the LC it's a warning to tend to it in the next few thousand miles, but still.....a guy can dream, eh?

DougM

Yeah. The DII's use a rbber CV-Joint-like boot to cover what is essentially a birfield type joint.

Alot of Rovers use pure gear oil in the knuckles, but many develop leaks in the wiper seals because of the constant wear everytime you turn the wheel. Land Rover sells a "one shot swivel" grease that is a standard moly grease, but even recommends mixing it with 90 wt. for use.

Sorry for the offtopic.

Back on topic: Mikesta, the problem may be, however, that you don't realize they've done the job wrong until something busts further down the road. I'd bet they only warranty their work for a year, tops. A lot of things you can do wrong on this job won't rear their head until later than that.