Test Drove 00 Cruiser - Details - Suggestions??

[tfrain]

I test drove an 00 cruiser day before yesterday. It is an 00 with about 69K on the clock. Asking 22K. Wouldn't budge from that. 2nd owner who has had it since about April. Sold an F250 because his wife didn't like riding with him in his diesel, but he doesn't like it and wants a truck back. So I talked to him and he didn't get records from PO, but I was able to track down where it came from, and called the local dealerships there until I found one with some history on the VIN. The current owner told me the tranny was replaced about 19K ago, which was strange I thought, as it is a LC. I had the dealership fax the info to me, and the truck has actually had 2 TRANNY REPLACEMENTS!! One at 38K and one at 50K. Both were under warranty, both stated metal in pan. The PO apparently complained about tranny noise even after the 2nd one was replaced. But he also complained about the 4wd shifter vibrating, which is normal, and I didn't see when test driving. So anyway, I drove the truck and it is NICE. The interior is almost perfect. Only some very small spots on the fake wood trim. Carpet clean, console area clean, seats clean. One problem was the leather on the bottom seat, the part nearest the console that you dont sit on, it was VERY HARD like cardboard almost. I could tell if I squeezed it it would crack. Now my questions:

1. Can that hard leather be treated and brought back to its original suppleness (that prob. isn't a real word)
2. Can anyone speculate as to why it would need 2 transmissions replaced? Could something else in the driveline be grenading the transmission?
3. I noticed a clunk or bump in the transmission when starting from a dead stop, and when braking to a stop. it wasn't everytime, but I did notice it as I was feeling for stuff like that because of the tranny replacements. It felt like driveline slack, but it worried me because of the transmission stuff. I've looked on here and see numerous posts about a clunk, but most were about when shifting into gear, which I know is normal. Is this clunk while doing stop-and-go driving normal? My wife didn't even notice, but I did.
4. Is this a good price? I personally think it is slightly high as kbb good value (which this is because of no service records) is around 21K. I was wanting to spend 20K.
5. Should I walk away from this because of the trans repl? The current owner didn't know anything about the first tranny repl, but did tell me about the 2nd during our first conversation.

Details
2000 LC
Silver with Tan Interior
Stupid add on fender flares - one on back driver door loose
69K miles
No service history other than what I found - no oil changes or anything - just tranny stuff and warranty work
All the normal LC niceties like third row, tow, spoiler, fake wood stuff, etc
Flawless exterior save one small scratch.
Heated seats don't work
Antenna doesn't work
No ticking from exhaust manifold - no idea if it has been repl.
Fairly new tires
Good glass
I think the current or PO may smoke/have smoked - under the lighter it is melted, and my wife could smell it faintly - I couldn't.

Tell me what you think!!!!

 

[jjbodean1970]

the reason the leather is hard is it probably has been repaired and dyed by the interior guy, done right they are great, done wrong, well, thats what you get, something kinda stiff. if its just hard from the sun, which i doubt cause prob both front seats would be the same, you may try some leather conditioners that are available from your local auto supply store

fender flares easy to remove, first mod i did!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I would not pay 22K for that vehicle. No way. History, things don't work...other things were probably not maintained well. Maybe $17K in that condition (despite the low miles).

 

[LXPearl]

Nice detective work on the vehicle. I would walk, especially at that price. Your gut feeling is on track.

If a person had two tranys so quick, I would seriously doubt their driving habits and maintenance capability without proof otherwise. Sounds like it may have gone to a professional detail shop to prepare it for sale. Who knows what else you will find if you dig deeper.

 

[ColoradoCarlisle]

Pass wait a week there will be a better one. You will always be asking yourself I wonder what that noise was???????

 

[Jim_Chow]

This old thread suggests there are shim problems (random) with '00 and '01 LX's that have lead to some tranny failures.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=8432&highlight=transmission+failure

The hard leather doesn't necessarily mean it was replaced. I have a friend w/ a '01 LC and he's done nothing to care for the leather (or the drivetrain/engine, other than oil changes every 8K mi and diff fluid at 60K, still original ATF at 70K). The vehicle was parked outside for 3 yrs next to the ocean in CA. The leather on the door is hard has cardboard. You can use the leatherique rejuvenator ...it supposedly will soften hard leather, but will likely require many applications. My feeling is with any used car, the condition & care of the interior will also apply to that of the engine/drivetrain. This is even more obvious with cars with leather interiors, as leather in poor condition can't be fixed with a single visit to a detailer like how the rest of the interior can be cleaned up. I bet people who bother to care for their leather (and it needs to be done frequently in hot, dry climates like AZ) will care enough to have the car properly maintained. A lot of LX470 new-car buyers are perfectionists and are willing to have the dealer do all the service, will take care of the leather or pay someone to periodically condition it, plus they are less likely to tow or go offroad. As an aside, I found the same goes for buying a used house..just look at the owner's cars. That gives a good indication of how the home was maintained.

 

[tfrain]

It was the same way on both front seats. It was sun damage or the combination of sun and lack of leather treatment. That was my main question - would the leather stuff restore it.

Lewis Grizzard rocks - "Shoot low boys, they're riding Shetland Ponies" - best book title ever.

quote=jjbodean1970;1450404]the reason the leather is hard is it probably has been repaired and dyed by the interior guy, done right they are great, done wrong, well, thats what you get, something kinda stiff. if its just hard from the sun, which i doubt cause prob both front seats would be the same, you may try some leather conditioners that are available from your local auto supply store

fender flares easy to remove, first mod i did![/quote]

 

[tfrain]

That's what I was thinking as well. I was prepared to give him 20K (had cashier's check) as I could live with the 2K savings as an insurance policy against the transmission. It really was in great shape. Everything looked new save the seats, and they were in great shape except for the hard stuff on the sides. The back seat looked brand new. All was pretty impressive for 6 year old vehicle. Somebody will buy it on site alone. Not me.

I would not pay 22K for that vehicle. No way. History, things don't work...other things were probably not maintained well. Maybe $17K in that condition (despite the low miles).

 

[tfrain]

Thanks. It took a while, but I was finally able to track it down. When spending this much money, you gotta!! I hate that my gut feeling is on track, cause the truck was sweet.

I was surprised at this from a Toyota (the 2 trannys) - they are not known for having any trans problem that I know of (unlike Honda) even if they guy drove it like he stole it.

Additionally, the current owner told me the original owner was a little bit weird. For instance, he took all the emblems off the truck. There was no "Toyota Land Cruiser" on the back gate. When the CO met the PO, the PO had a Dodge truck his wife was driving to take him back home, and it had the emblems removed from it, too.

I'm just worried that the price is going up because of cheaper gas, and winter/fall on the way that people will decide to take them off the market. I feel I need to act fairly quickly for these reasons. We are going from 4 vehicles to 2 and I want to get out from under paying insurance, tags, etc on the other vehicles.

Nice detective work on the vehicle. I would walk, especially at that price. Your gut feeling is on track.

If a person had two tranys so quick, I would seriously doubt their driving habits and maintenance capability without proof otherwise. Sounds like it may have gone to a professional detail shop to prepare it for sale. Who knows what else you will find if you dig deeper.

I agree with you about the interior care/whole vehicle care. The hardness also suggest to me that it wasn't garaged much, which the owner didn't claim it to be.

I had no idea leather was so finicky. This would be the first car with leather interior for me. I would really rather have a nice cloth, but of course, we dont get those LC's here. My 89 Camry has this tweed like cloth that looks like new - 17 years later. Does it seem to anyone else that domestic manufacturers seem to have better leather?? Their vehicles suck in general, but the leather doesn't ever seem to be like this in trucks I've seen.

I think I am going to continue looking - possibly for a Lexus. I think, as you do, that they may be better cared for.

This old thread suggests there are shim problems (random) with '00 and '01 LX's that have lead to some tranny failures.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=8432&highlight=transmission+failure

The hard leather doesn't necessarily mean it was replaced. I have a friend w/ a '01 LC and he's done nothing to care for the leather (or the drivetrain/engine, other than oil changes every 8K mi and diff fluid at 60K, still original ATF at 70K). The vehicle was parked outside for 3 yrs next to the ocean in CA. The leather on the door is hard has cardboard. You can use the leatherique rejuvenator ...it supposedly will soften hard leather, but will likely require many applications. My feeling is with any used car, the condition & care of the interior will also apply to that of the engine/drivetrain. This is even more obvious with cars with leather interiors, as leather in poor condition can't be fixed with a single visit to a detailer like how the rest of the interior can be cleaned up. I bet people who bother to care for their leather (and it needs to be done frequently in hot, dry climates like AZ) will care enough to have the car properly maintained. A lot of LX470 new-car buyers are perfectionists and are willing to have the dealer do all the service, will take care of the leather or pay someone to periodically condition it, plus they are less likely to tow or go offroad. As an aside, I found the same goes for buying a used house..just look at the owner's cars. That gives a good indication of how the home was maintained.

I'm hoping!!! It just gets tiring looking at Autotrader, Cars.com, ebay, local paper everyday and trying to sort out what's new and what's not. I'm having to look in a 500 mile range just to get any trucks to show up and then I have to sort them out. I found one LX locally, but it was gone within hours of hitting the Lexus used lot.

Can anyone suggest any other sources for trucks??

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR YOUR COMMENTS!!!!!

Pass wait a week there will be a better one. You will always be asking yourself I wonder what that noise was???????

 

[bamachem]

I would not pay 22K for that vehicle. No way. History, things don't work...other things were probably not maintained well. Maybe $17K in that condition (despite the low miles).

ditto. no way you should pay more than $17k or so for that one.

i got a two-owner '00 back in july with 62k on the clock - first owner was a toyota dealership and they put 13k on it in 3 years. black with tan. perfect inside and out except for a rock chip in the windshield and a nick on the front bumper. other than that, zero issues. full service history, etc came with it. i got it from an INFINITI dealer - it was a trade-in. i found it LITERALLY a few minutes after they listed it on autotrader. i called and made a cash offer of $20k when they were asking $22k and it booked at $26k. they countered with $20,300 and i accepted. i gave a CC for the deposit and drove 2.5 hours to pick it up two days later.

 

[tfrain]

I think I read about your excellent purchase in another thread. That is a good deal - Did you call and get a salesman to walk around it for you? The problem is that condition is one of those things that is dependent upon each person's opinion. I'm really looking for one from an individual as they are usually more honest about condition before I take a trip to look at one. I guess I just expect dealers to lie and try to get more $$ from me. I am willing to pay GOOD KBB Private Party Value for a truck like I want. I hope to stumble upon something like that soon. you definitely have to spring on one when it comes up. I called about the one 2 hours away from me the morning it was posted.

Do you guys have pretty good exp. with dealers??

 

[Jim_Chow]

Patience! Here in AZ, used LC's/LX's are rare. I look for over half a year and pretty much figured I'd have to go to So. CA to buy one (lots of them there). My CPO went on the market around Nov '05. I followed it on autotrader, and it went unsold since the dealer was asking way too much ($49K). As a result, it didn't sell over Xmas. In late Jan we decided we had to buy before summer or the baby will be staying home 100% of the time due to lack of strong A/C in the old 4runner! We ended up getting it for the KBB trade-in + CPO cost + a little extra for dealer expenses, which was their offer once they figured out I was serious about buying, plus it had been sitting on their lot for 3 months already. Late in Nov '05 when I started looking, I spotted a couple of CPO LX's in LA w/ fewer miles going for the same as what I paid for my '03, but they were snatched up before Xmas, which was before I had the money. Anyways, it seemed there were more used vehicles up for sale at the end of the year, especially with the next year's model available. Also, if you buy at a dealer on the last day or weekend of the month, you can often negotiate a better deal. If they won't budge on the price, try to get the extended warranty or service folded into the package. There's tons of markup on those extras, so they can heavily discount them. This is what a negotiator-buddy of mine recommended, and it worked. At least w/ a toyota/lexus dealer, you can do this; with private party, you're out of luck if the guy won't budge on the price.

My other tactic from '04 and '05 was to wait until the new LC/LX body-style debuted, then figure a bunch of people would trade in their '03's for the new one. Luckily I didn't follow that tactic, as I'd still be waiting! ...had no idea the new LC wouldn't debut until '08! In the past, the body style was refreshed about every 7 yrs for both the LC and 4runner.

 

[drsales]

My 2000 was $16,500 with 92k miles this summer.

 

[EdsCruisin]

Patience is key - I spent several months looking last Spring for mine. I got a '00 LC with 65K miles for about $22K from a Lexus dealer roughly 70 miles away. At that time, the price was as good as it gets for a clean Cruiser. I am also in the Washington DC area where the KBB is adjusted up for too much wealth in the area. I was also looking with a broker friend at the national auction circuit and the price was competitive, considering I got it already tuned up, inspected and with a meager warranty. I checked the vehicle thoroughly and found that it had one owner that had regular service at the dealer.

Dealers have more room to play with the price than most individuals. This dealer was running an internet special with a mark down for buyers like me (the lot price was $2,000 higher than the internet). Usually there is some salesman in a dealership that is responsible for all the internet activity and he will bend over backwards to impress his sales manager with closed deals.

I was amazed that they passed the inspection with original Michelins that were truly unsafe on a wet road. They also advertised on the top line that there was a built in DVD, which it never had. These became bargaining chips and they gave me an $800 check that I used to buy new Bridgestone Dueler Revos and a hitch. They had also replaced the brakes, belts and wipers, and did a total cleanup. Whatever you do, don't let a dealer replace something worn that you would probably upgrade. It is cheaper for them to replace parts, but you can do more with that cash.

Finding somebody who has access to the wholesale auction system is a great way to go, but beware that those vehicles are "as-is" and it may cost a couple grand to get them on the road. Dealers have an economy of scale in their favor. If you know you are going to spend some time and cash modifying it before driving it, the auction is a good bet.

 

[bamachem]

I think I read about your excellent purchase in another thread. That is a good deal - Did you call and get a salesman to walk around it for you? The problem is that condition is one of those things that is dependent upon each person's opinion. I'm really looking for one from an individual as they are usually more honest about condition before I take a trip to look at one. I guess I just expect dealers to lie and try to get more $$ from me. I am willing to pay GOOD KBB Private Party Value for a truck like I want. I hope to stumble upon something like that soon. you definitely have to spring on one when it comes up. I called about the one 2 hours away from me the morning it was posted.

Do you guys have pretty good exp. with dealers??

i had them take about 15 or so good, high quality pics and email them to me. i got the dealer on the phone, made sure he had the camera with him, and had him walk out to the truck. i asked about each body panel, he went to each one, looked each over in detail and then took a pic of each. then i had him check each seat for wear/tears, and the carpet for stains. i got pics of the interior as well. i got the vin, checked it on carfax while i was on the phone with him. i then told him what my offer was pending receiving the pics.

by the way, they were asking $25,900 on the lot and had it for $22,900 on the internet which was supposed to be the "non-negotiable" price. it had only been on the lot about 2 days and only back from the detail shop about 4 hours when i called about it.

he then went inside, emailed the pics to me and called me about an hour later with a counter of just $300 more than my offer of $20,000 - i was shocked. i would have paid $23k for it if they would have held their ground. i gave him a CC for a deposit on it right then to hold it. it was in nashville, and i'm in knoxville about 2.5 hours away.

i think that was a wednesday morning. i got all the loan paperwork situated and went to go pick it up on friday afternoon after work.

only trust a dealer who's willing to work for their sale. if they are too lazy to go take pics and walk around the rig like this guy did, then they either have something to hide or don't care about your business.

 

[Jim_Chow]

I second the notion of dealers not willing to work for the sale. At that time I bought my rig, I was also considering a '04 LX w/ about the same number of miles for a few grand less. The dealer was lexus of mission viejo, near my folks' house in CA. I emailed the salesman asking a number of questions, none of which were answered. In fact, I didn't hear from the guy again until the end of the month (2 weeks later), when he was undoubtedly trying to meet his quota. By then, I had already bought at my local dealer, which answered every question I had promptly. So this comes to show that not even all lexus dealers are created equal.

 

[gaylon]

Play the dealers

While I am not sure about $17K being the right price, I am fairly sure $22K is too high. As gas prices dip and stay down though...

I have a simple rule, if there are any problems with a vehicle that I want to be 'like new' I do not buy it. There is a 93 UZJ-80 here in the bay area with a blown head gasket (that is what the owner thinks - have not seen it) for about $5K with 65K miles. Totally different. I am willing to accept a certain amount of risk for a $5K or so truck Not for a $20K or more vehicle. Walk. Wait. Where are you located? Location has a large affect on pricing and avalability.

 

[hoser]

Yes, a good-to-excellent condition '00 LC for $17k would be unheard of in CA. Gaylon, can you PM me the contact info for the $5k 80, I might be interested.

 

[gaylon]

Yes, a good-to-excellent condition '00 LC for $17k would be unheard of in CA. Gaylon, can you PM me the contact info for the $5k 80, I might be interested.

PM'ed you. Enjoy!

 

[tfrain]

Thanks to everyone again. I guess I am anti dealer because the majority of them don't know crap about the service history, and some act as if you are asking about some abstract theory - I've had more than a few state "99% of our cars don't have any service history/documentation" or "all of our cars are well maintained as you can tell from the condition" - which is just a stupid statement because you can't see the inside of the engine!! It is very frustrating. I'm not completely against going with a dealer, but I almost refuse to buy one that doesn't have any kind of Service history. You just don't know how it has been treated. Granted, the overall condition of exterior/interior does say alot about the PO's care. It seems that most dealers WAY overprice in order to conpensate for some of their wiggle room. And now with Gas prices down (temporarily I think) most have upped their price it seems. I've sort of let my wife take over the searching as I'm burned out.

Do you guys think giving GOOD private party KBB for an excellent/near excellent vehicle is fair? That is what I have been thinking as a fair price.

AGain - you guys rock!