Suspension and UCA Installation (Dobinson’s/SPC in my case, but the lessons likely apply to others.)

[USMCVader]

Just a quick follow up question. If you would've used the 'Crikeymike' method from the start, you would NOT have needed to disconnect the steering arm, right? It appears that in the video he doesn't.

Thanks and sorry if I'm missing something obvious here! Just getting my plan together for my own driveway upgrade.

Jay

Jay,
As Samster747 said, and the video indicates, you can do it without disconnecting the steering arm with that method, although the clearances will be a bit tighter. However, that is not what we did, since we discovered the method after we were already committed, and well down the path. To be honest, given the frustrations we had with the sway bar linkage, the steering connections were minor inconveniences.
Vader

 

[samster747]

Jay,
As Samster747 said, and the video indicates, you can do it without disconnecting the steering arm with that method, although the clearances will be a bit tighter. However, that is not what we did, since we discovered the method after we were already committed, and well down the path. To be honest, given the frustrations we had with the sway bar linkage, the steering connections were minor inconveniences.
Vader

Yes everything else is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. The sway bar and the linkage was the worst part for the front. I will say that probably 60-70 % of my time was spent struggling with the sway bar linkage.

 

[Nola622]

yes this was essentially my question....dont disconnect at LCA but at the top end of the linkage holding the actual sway bar. I'm preparing all the things I will need for the install and we'll see how it goes. thanks everyone for your inputs.

While I didn't do it this way, looking back on it I would not disconnect at the LCA, and instead disconnect at the next bolt up at the end of the linkage. As Charlie S said above, it is a cheap bolt, but if you jack up the threads in the LCA it is a major PITA, which is how I ended up making my poor man's tap to fix it. If you goon it up bad enough you are looking at potentially buying a new LCA. I found once I understood the way the sway bar moved that I could push it around pretty well as needed with a jack on the other side of the vehicle. (KDSS bolts loosened is key) Either way, be prepared to spend a bit of time getting it back together on both sides. As Cruisin911 said, it is definitely the worst part of the install.

Just as a heads up - I recently did work on the front suspension and can confirm that the method of disconnecting the front sway bar links at the 2nd bolt up (not the UCA itself but the top of that link) was way easier than disconnecting/reconnecting at the lower end of the link in the UCA. I recommend that upper link method to others for sure. Night and day to re-connect (I used my floor jack to nudge up the sway bar on the drivers side to re-connect to link - helps to loosen the lower bolt a little so you have free movement of the link)

 

[TXtrdPRO]

Ok, after reading all this, watching multiple installation videos, and taking notes, I installed an Ironman FCP 2" lift front and rear over the weekend. The front is complete, but the rear is giving me issues. I removed the sway bar brackets on the rear axle as the OP said to do and in order to get the new Ironman passenger side (US) rear spring in place, I had to remove the bolt from the chassis side of the panhard bar. I had been working under the vehicle 12 hours without a lift and was beyond tired so after multiple attempts at reattaching things I ended up calling it a night. I attempted to jack the drivers side rear KDSS pivot point and was able to attach the drivers side sway bar bracket, but the passenger side sway bar bushing is not getting close enough to the pocket in order to place the bracket over it. I jacked up one side of the rear axle with one jack and the drivers side KDSS pivot point with another and still can't get it close on the passenger side. Same with the panhard bar. In frustration I lowered the vehicle last night (KDSS valves still open) and will take another look this afternoon with the vehicle on all four wheels to see if I can get any closer. Does anyone have any tips for how to get the rear sway bar brackets and panhard bar back in place? I know I can get an adjustable rear panhard bar, but I was told it isn't necessary for a 2-3" lift (and they are sold out everywhere I've looked). I've installed several lifts in the past, but this is the first on a 200 series and it's by far the most difficult one I've had the pleasure of dealing with. Thanks for any input!

 

[Nola622]

I've never disconnected the panhard bar - so no tips on that, but for the stabilizer/anti-sway bar I have used ratchet straps and/or woodworking clamps when it is giving me trouble.

I don't disconnect all that stuff to change rear springs, I only disconnect the passenger side sway bar end mount that goes vertical with that little link. That end link I am describing would be the last thing I would re-connect if I was in your situation. I use a floor jack to push the bottom of the link up to get into the hole to put the nut on it. Hope that makes sense.

When I am installing long springs that don't want to come out / go back in on the difficult passenger side, I put a spreader (a reversed Bessey K-body clamp) between the bump-stop and the axle to push down. I never have another person around that can step on the lugs or something while I'm under there.

 

[TXtrdPRO]

I've never disconnected the panhard bar - so no tips on that, but for the stabilizer/anti-sway bar I have used ratchet straps and/or woodworking clamps when it is giving me trouble.

I don't disconnect all that stuff to change rear springs, I only disconnect the passenger side sway bar end mount that goes vertical with that little link. That end link I am describing would be the last thing I would re-connect if I was in your situation. I use a floor jack to push the bottom of the link up to get into the hole to put the nut on it. Hope that makes sense.

When I am installing long springs that don't want to come out / go back in on the difficult passenger side, I put a spreader (a reversed Bessey K-body clamp) between the bump-stop and the axle to push down. I never have another person around that can step on the lugs or something while I'm under there.

Yeah, I was hesitating disconnecting anything else, but looks like I will have to relieve some tension by disconnecting that last link on the passenger side KDSS and work towards it with the sway bar brackets. Maybe the panhard will then slide into place too. Good call on the ratchet straps. Waiting for it to cool down then I'll go back out there. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[indycole]

@TXtrdPRO Try putting a small jack directly under the axle. Moving the axle up and down has been provided enough movement to easily install the panhard when otherwise it'd been impossible. I don't have any advice regarding the sway bar...

 

[USMCVader]

This is where that picture with the crazy stack of boards and the jack came into play. Would be much easier with my spiffy new floor jack that replaced the one that broke during this install, but the key we found with all the KDSS system parts (front and back) was to use the jack on the opposite side to move the system around as needed to get it to line up. It is definitely a PITA, and we spent a bit of time staring at it to figure out where to apply pressure to get it to move in the desired direction. By the end of the project the friend who helped me had elevated cussing out the KDSS to new heights.

 

[82SC]

I applaud your efforts O Dark Sith Lord.

I had grand plans to do a write up like this and even started taking Gopro Videos but i ended up having to do alot of problem solving and gave up on the documentation.
But let me add my experiences as this may end up being the go to thread for future DIY'ers

I did Ironman Stage 3 FCP (Front struts, and UCA, Rear springs, struts, U Trailing arms, L Trailing arms, Panhard)

Front

-I followed the Project 200 video, various Ironman videos this forum etc.....
-I could not get the steering control arm to come off. And I don't think this is necessary. Maybe it would help getting your strut in and out but it's doable without
-Have your struts prebuilt. I didn't and had to have a shop do it. You need a wall mounted compressor. The typical screw-bolt type are not strong enough nor will they fit between the thick coils
-I used a pry bar to push the LCA down to get strut out and in. Frustrating but doable
-Leave 1 or 2 of the strut tower nuts in place to hold the strut up....or you'll need an extra set of hands
-Did I mention pry bar....a big giant pry bar?
-The Sway bars were a pain and I think I've seen just disconnecting from the frame only is sufficient. (I found this out after). I only disconnected the swaybar linkage and it was doable but difficult to wrassle everything back into place
-As stated by other poster I didn't mess with the LCA at all
-Use a bright torque check marking system so you can easily see your nuts and bolts after final torque
-Do your Slee main battery tray upgrade is you planning on it since you'll be practically there with this project
-Watch the orientation of the washers on the UCA as I put them in incorrectly and had to take out that long bolt....again.....ugggg

Rear

-Much easier
-Helps to have a jack that you use to lift the axle, drop the axle, lift one side, lift the other side, adjust by half a pump to help align bolt holes, put the jack on one side of the diff to push it over a millimeter to align a bolt, change positions, release the jack too much, undo all the 14 adjustments you had done to get that last little bolt in, start all over....
-Tightening the top strut nut is a horrible experience. That should be used as a torture tactic.

Seeing your pics brought it all rushing back....all the cursing and frustration.

But a super fun project. Satisfying. The alignment guy was super impressed and said it looked very good.
Car feels good. Less rake. Less KDSS lean.

Awesome thread. Will be one referenced a ton.

 

[USMCVader]

I applaud your efforts O Dark Sith Lord.

I had grand plans to do a write up like this and even started taking Gopro Videos but i ended up having to do alot of problem solving and gave up on the documentation.
But let me add my experiences as this may end up being the go to thread for future DIY'ers

I did Ironman Stage 3 FCP (Front struts, and UCA, Rear springs, struts, U Trailing arms, L Trailing arms, Panhard)

Front

-I followed the Project 200 video, various Ironman videos this forum etc.....
-I could not get the steering control arm to come off. And I don't think this is necessary. Maybe it would help getting your strut in and out but it's doable without
-Have your struts prebuilt. I didn't and had to have a shop do it. You need a wall mounted compressor. The typical screw-bolt type are not strong enough nor will they fit between the thick coils
-I used a pry bar to push the LCA down to get strut out and in. Frustrating but doable
-Leave 1 or 2 of the strut tower nuts in place to hold the strut up....or you'll need an extra set of hands
-Did I mention pry bar....a big giant pry bar?
-The Sway bars were a pain and I think I've seen just disconnecting from the frame only is sufficient. (I found this out after). I only disconnected the swaybar linkage and it was doable but difficult to wrassle everything back into place
-As stated by other poster I didn't mess with the LCA at all
-Use a bright torque check marking system so you can easily see your nuts and bolts after final torque
-Do your Slee main battery tray upgrade is you planning on it since you'll be practically there with this project
-Watch the orientation of the washers on the UCA as I put them in incorrectly and had to take out that long bolt....again.....ugggg

Rear

-Much easier
-Helps to have a jack that you use to lift the axle, drop the axle, lift one side, lift the other side, adjust by half a pump to help align bolt holes, put the jack on one side of the diff to push it over a millimeter to align a bolt, change positions, release the jack too much, undo all the 14 adjustments you had done to get that last little bolt in, start all over....
-Tightening the top strut nut is a horrible experience. That should be used as a torture tactic.

Seeing your pics brought it all rushing back....all the cursing and frustration.

But a super fun project. Satisfying. The alignment guy was super impressed and said it looked very good.
Car feels good. Less rake. Less KDSS lean.

Awesome thread. Will be one referenced a ton.

Thanks! Besides all your other good additions, great catch on having the struts prebuilt! While I have the normal spring compressors, I had the struts prebuilt when I ordered the kit since not only did they have a deal on it, but I figured I was already dealing with enough risk with the project already. About 14,000 miles later and I still think the lift was a great improvement. Now if I could just get my RW wheels finished up and mounted…

 

[YellowJacket]

I wasn't sure sure if I should start a new thread or join in on this one. There seems to be a bunch of experience here in the area that I'm struggling with. I am having a terrible time putting the finishing touches on my 2013 LC OME lift install. I've finally got all the wheels bolted back up, but I cannot get the sway bars to bolt back in. The passenger rear is not close enough to lining up, even doing the common floor jack on the opposite rear joint trick. But the main issue that's not allowing me to get to the alignment shop is this corner shown here. The front passenger.

I haven't unbolted the 4 bolts holding the front sway bar to the frame yet. Even though I am in Utah, I purchased this LC in Rhode Island and the chassis is extremely rusty and removing bolts on her makes me nervous. The other thing (or main thing?) that might be making the sway bars a bigger issue is that I haven't been able to open the KDSS shutter control valves. I located two 10mm nuts and purchased extra 5mm hex sockets on my way to where I'm installing the lift. However due to the rust, rather than breaking tools like other people have, I just rounded the valves out. I also thought there was a welder here, which is no longer the case. Any tips? Maybe I need to double down on locating a welder and get the valves open?

 

[Nola622]

I've never attempted this without the KDSS open. What I would do is pry open the part where the sway bar end link is supposed to slide in (bend the metal to widen the opening) - because they always get too tight to easily fit back in. Don't worry, it will be bent back when you ultimately tighten it.

Then I have always used large pry bars to push the bar down and line it up. You have to maintain weight on the pry bar to hold it in place. Then I use a battery impact gun with a long socket (not a hand ratchet) to put the bolt back in because you can angle the bolt with leverage to get it to align and start feeding in. I don't see much penetrating oil on anything in your photo. If that was my vehicle it would be doused in quality penetrating oil.

Why is the steering link tie rod end thingy disconnected?

In any event your cruiser will probably be riding with a serious lean until you get the KDSS open.

Good luck!

 

[82SC]

you might try putting the floor jack under the Lower control arm and jack the bracket up to the sway bar
have good sturdy pry bars ready

Another way to do it would be to loosen the brackets holding the sway bar to the chassis
connect the linkage
then raise the bar to chassis. May need to undo both brackets

 

[YellowJacket]

Why is the steering link tie rod end thingy disconnected?

In any event your cruiser will probably be riding with a serious lean until you get the KDSS open.

I will try your suggestions. Thank you. In regards to the steering link tie rod end, I can't bolt it back up because the sway bar is in the way. I have been using PB Penetrating Blaster on it like crazy. I purchased it on the way here and the can's almost empty. I am also using anti seize.

After rounding out the valves, one local cruisehead told me the lift install was possible w/o opening them and if it leans, it should equalize out after a few hours. He also said that I could park it on a curb to help adjust.

 

[Cruisin911]

I had issues with the passenger side sway bar drop link as well. I ended up using an impact like mentioned above but had to align the drop link with the LCA by using a floor jack on the LCA to lift it a bit and a ratchet strap to align it. Additionally, I had a long prybar pushing the sway down then the neighbor could run the bolt in. That easily took the most time to install on the whole lift. I didn't even detach the rear sway when I put in the new shocks and springs.

 

[Jelder]

Just a thought as I'm getting ready to install my lift kit next month. I'm going to guess that re-attaching stabilizer links on both sides is much easier if you loosen the lower control arm eccentric bolts and take advantage of the range of motion available to line things up properly. I had them loose when I installed my leveling kit and they move around a ton. Then, when the links are attached, you can return the eccentric positions to wherever you'd like.

Will report back.

 

[Widow61]

Resurrecting an old thread, but wanted to give credit to @USMCVader and the others here. I just finished the install of a full set of Dobinsons MRRs with the firestone airbags. I would not have had the courage to do it myself without this thread, the other threads referenced here, and the videos. I chose the C59-42 front coils (2" with stock weight) and the C59-559V rears (2" with stock weight). The airbags were to keep my rear end from sagging when towing my boat. I also installed a DrKDSS bolt on track bar correction kit while I was at it all.

My install went pretty well with no major struggles. It still took two solid days of work spread out over three days, but 3/4 of that time was figuring out how to install one of the fronts or rears and the other 1/4 of the time was spent putting the other side in. I started with the rears, after watching the Australian Images youtube video several times. He disconnects the KDSS from the sway bar, but I chose to just losen these links and remove the sway bar from the axle.



A couple of the things I did that have been main discussion points in this thread:

1. I loosened the bolts connecting the KDSS system to the sway bar after opening the KDSS valves. I used a small jack stand to keep tension on the KDSS bar where it connected to the sway bar linkage.
2. I disconnected the sway bar from the rear axle at the two brackets. When these brackets were removed the KDSS wanted to move the sway bar around but the jack stand kept it in a pretty good location for reattachment.
3. When removing the rear shock, I used a small cheap pipe wrench from harbor freight to hold the top of the shock from spinning. There are flats on the top of the shock body and once the pipe wrench was in place it was relatively easy to undo the top nut.
4. For undoing the top nut I just used a long handle wrench, not a ratcheting one. Took a little longer, but not really an issue with the long handle.
5. When pulling the old springs out, I had plenty of movement on the axle to remove the drivers side with no extra effort, but the passenger side didnt' have the room I need to pull the spring out. I used a bottle jack between the top of the track bar/panhard bar mount on the axle and the frame above that. the bottle jack quickly gave me the extra room I needed to remove the old spring and install the new spring.
6. Before installing the new springs in the rear I put the airbags in the springs and ran the airlines. I tested for leaks prior to fulling installing everything, but i still ended up with the passenger side not holding air after the full install. It was difficult, but I was able to fix the leak at the fitting on top of the air bag by removing the airline, recutting the end and reinserting into the airbag fitting. No leaks now.
7. Once the springs were installed I mounted the shocks. This is were i struggled a bit. The MRRs came with a full sheet of pictures showing how to install them. It took me lots of trial and error on where to mount the bracket to hold the remote reservoir and how to run the line between the shock and the reservoir. The pictures help, but there is room for improvement here.
8. Once the shocks were installed, I reattached the sway bar to the axle. I was dreading this based on the struggles others had, but for whatever reason, mine went back in with little trouble.
9. Once it was all back on the ground I torqued everything per the information here and the other threads.
10. After that I loosened the frame mounted track bar bolt and removed the axle mounted track bar bolt and installed the DrKDSS BOTCK. I followed his youtube video and have to say this was one of the easiest parts of the day. No issues at all.

With the rears installed I ran out to get lunch with a huge amount of rake. It looked like the LC200 was in a yoga class doing a downward dog pose. Thanks again to USMCVader and the others from this thread. I'll do a second reply to talk about the fronts next.

Thanks, Scott

 

[Widow61]

I dreaded the fronts based on some of the issues I read about, but after watching the ExitOffroad video on how to drop the LCA and pull the front struts and also watching the front strut replacement for the LC200 from Lovells Adelaide, I decided that was the method I was going to try.

1. While the tires were still on the ground I loosened the two bolts that attach the LCA to the hub. I used my two foot breaker bar, and had to apply pressure with my foot and leg to get those bolts loose.
2. I left the front sway bar brackets on the frame alone, but I loosened the top bolt on the KDSS link to the LCA. I then removed the bottom bolt from this linkage that bolts into the LCA.
3. From here I loosened the eccentric bolts to get the LCA to pivot freely. Once the lower shock bolt was removed, I had to loosen the eccentric nuts more, but it eventually swung down out of the way with gravity.
4. I removed the top four nuts on the strut, using a long handled standard wrench to loosen the nuts, but then used my ratcheting wrench to remove them.
5. The struts came out relatively easy at this point once I figured out how to move the hub around to get me the clearance I needed.
6. Putting the new strut assembly in, was easy thanks to the Lovells video. I used a small hydraulic jack to support the bottom of the strut and pumped it up into place. Then I installed only the two outer most nuts on top of the strut so it was held up but I could move it quite a bit to get it back into the LCA.
7. After the sturggles with the remote reservoirs on the rears, I studied the pictures that came with the MRRs to make sure I routed the line from the shock to the reserviors right.
8. I then pivoted the LCA back into place and then followed the Lovells video where you only put the lower KDSS linkage bolt in to the LCA, but don't thread it in until it is back on the ground. This worked well for me, the biggest struggle I had was just getting the linkage lined up right to get the bolt in the hole of the linkage. My 24" pry bar helped move it around to aling everything.
9. Once all the bolts were in but not tightened up, I lowered it back to the ground and was able to the the KDSS to LCA bolt threaded without any major issues. At this point I torqued everything per the specs in this thread and others.
10. Here is where my biggest struggle occurred and my only major complaint about the MRRs from Dobinsons. Mounting the dang remote reservoirs!!! UGH! The passenger side went in okay, but I had to readjust it several times to make sure the line fromt he shock to the reservois wasn't rubbing on anything. This would require rotating the reservior a little in the bracket, flexing the suspension, rotating the reservoir a little more, etc etc etc. It took me longer to adjust the resrvoir than to mount the dang strut.
11. Then came the driver side reservoir... And here is where I felt Dobinsons really let their customers down. Instructions show you mounting the reservior mirrored from the passenger side. Except for the KDSS system is right there. I tired to figure out how to get it to work and watched all kinds of MRR install videos. I finally ended up taking the Dobinsons bracket and bending a new angle on it and twisting it some so that it would clear the KDSS system and not touch. Not gonna lie, this about did me in... I spent a good four hours bending the bracket a little, mounting it all up, finding it rubbing somewhere, removing it all, bending the bracket some more, reinstalling it all, finding it rubbing again.... over and over and over... Not gonna lie, it sucked... I realize most of their customer base in is Australia, and only some of the LC200s there have the KDSS, but it really irritated me that what I bought here in the US did not come with instructions or a reservoir mounting solution for the drivers side with the KDSS in the way. I fnially got it mounted with no rubbing, but i'm still a bit grumbly about it.

Thanks again to USMCVader and the rest of you guys! I'm still playing with the MRR adjustments to get the ride I want, but I feel like I will be well satisifed with the Dobinsons for years to come.

Thanks, Scott

 

[Widow61]

I do still have the Dobinsons UCA to install but I'll have to wait a couple of days until i can get some more time off.

 

[USMCVader]

Thanks Widow61 for the update and the appreciated but undeserved thanks! I posted the thread originally to help others from going down some of the sketchy paths I plowed through, hopefully it met that goal. The MRRs were relatively new back then and there were not many reviews yet so I went with a more traditional setup. If I did it today I would follow your example...even with the metal bending for the reservoirs. As for the forward rake, I have added a TJM bumper since the original post so I fully appreciate that stance. (I took the third row seats out too, which did not help either.) I like to think of it as a bit of slack for when I load it down with whatever I happen to be hauling in the back at the moment. Just need a good deal on an LRA gas tank or a rear bumper to fix it…