Stange Noise / Vibration - Need Help:)

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J

JETTIX2

Joined
Jun 4, 2006
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2005 LX470, 113k on the odo

Bought it with 107k, had a bad front wheel bearing at that point, new front pads & rotors, ran snow tires all winter and had a strange harmonic noise that didn't go away when I swapped to new Hankook Dynapro AT/Ms in April, so I took it in to my nearest shop. Figured it was a driveshaft U-joint......it would appear above 65mph, on the throttle. If you lifted, the noise went away for a second or two, until the driveline caught back up......if you shifted to Neutral, it went away instantly.

Local shop (Chrysler dealer, only place I've got within 50 miles, I've known the SA for 20 years) sent the driveshaft in, had it balanced, 2 new joints installed on it, and handed me the keys last night, told me it was good to go.

Well, THAT noise is gone, but now I've got something else. Keep in mind, vehicle has been sitting in their parking lot for 2 weeks while they sent the driveshaft off to be serviced by a place that is well-known in this area for their driveshaft work.

So now, at any speed above 50-ish, I start to feel a vibration in the floor.....in the seat......(not so much in the steering wheel). By 70, it's starting to cause the loose change in the cupholder to buzz........by 75, it's even worse. Let off the gas, and it's definitely there. Shift to Neutral, it doesn't go away. Turn left and right (as much as you can at speed) and don't see any noticable change.

Where-as the Driveshaft U-joint issue was a definite Harmonic/Audible thing that went away instantly when you took the load off the drivetrain, this is a vibration/grumble that doesn't go away.

1) I'm thinking wheel bearing. Either the other front wheel bearing, or perhaps a rear. None other than the RF has ever been replaced. My RF wheel bearing failure made no noise.

2) Sticking brake caliper, causing warped rotor/engagement going down the road.

3) Perhaps (much less likely) some sort of tire balancing issue, but these tires were smooth as silk up to 75mph before I took it to the shop

So I took it back this AM and had the Service Adviser ride with me. He thought possibly a Carrier Bearing going bad, but wants to put it on the hoist and check before he made an actual recommendation, says it SOUNDS like a bearing.......carrier bearing seems like a grasp in the dark, and $$$ too. I just searched the board, and don't see many (almost none) stories of 100 series Carrier Bearings wearing out at this young of mileage.

***So why all of a sudden? Is the shop to blame (ie something related to driveshaft repair)? Was the bad U-joint masking this, did it happen because it sat for 2 weeks, or is it simply bad timing?***

Any and all help is appreciated.

Thanks, Ben
 
He said carrier bearing because that's where the money is. I you let him, he'll swap it out just to find out it wasn't the problem! I don't understand the auto industry. Their ability to diagnose problems is almost nonexistent. Take your helicopter to any half-assed A&P and he will find your bad bearing within the hour. I'd tell the SA I'd let him swap out whatever he wants at his cost if it doesn't fix the problem... Or, better yet, take it to someone else. Ok, enough rant. Check the small things first. You can check the wheel bearings yourself pretty easily. Did they remove the wheels for any reason?
 
If it was me, I would pull the driveshaft that was messed with, lock the center diff and go for a drive. New vib after a rotating part was altered in some way...that's where I go first at least...:confused:
 
Doesn't sound like unbalanced wheels (too wide of a speed range). I'd check the wheel bearings first - jack each wheel off the ground, grab at 12 and 6, and twist each direction. Bearing slop should be very minimal.
 
I agree pull the driveshaft out and lock the center diff. Go for a drive and see what happens. I would hold off on any repairs from that shop right now.

Do a quick check to make sure the driveshaft is in proper phase. Look and the pic at the bottom of this link to get an idea of what you need to be looking for. A driveshaft out of phase even by one spline will give you the issue you are describing
http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinephasing/drivelinephasing.html

Good luck,

Andrew
 
Thanks for everyone's input so far.

They just did the rear driveshaft. U joints look to be in-phase, at least within a few degrees based on my crawling under the truck.

Question, when they sent the shaft in to the shop to be balanced, it had both U joints attached. IF they sent it out this way, and it came back that way, it would only be possible for my dealership to install the shaft 90* out of phase, which is is not (is this correct?). Which means either the driveshaft shop didn't phase/balance it correctly, or we've got something completely different going on.

Right? Sorry.......new to the whole driveshaft/phasing thing:)




Rot Box said:
I agree pull the driveshaft out and lock the center diff. Go for a drive and see what happens. I would hold off on any repairs from that shop right now.

Do a quick check to make sure the driveshaft is in proper phase. Look and the pic at the bottom of this link to get an idea of what you need to be looking for. A driveshaft out of phase even by one spline will give you the issue you are describing
http://jniolon.clubfte.com/drivelinephasing/drivelinephasing.html

Good luck,

Andrew
Click to expand...
 
Based on your description, its unlikely to be a bearing or wheel imbalance. Given it appeared with the repaired driveshaft, that's the obvious suspect. Pull the driveshaft and ask the shop to spin it. Good chance they will see the problem.
 
Follow the advice above and pull the shaft(s) one at a time, lock the center and see what happens. Be careful though because the two shafts can combine to cause a problem.

To put it plainly the inertia welded shafts in LC's are junk, black voodoo is a word I heard used. ECGS will tell you and so will the right person at Just Diffs and at Slee. In order to solve these driveline vibration problems, you have to think of everything; u-joints, balance, shaft trueness, phase, rotate the shafts, flip the shafts, get custom shafts made, harmonic flanges, on and on and on. I will post a separate thread about my vibration experience. Look out for that post.
 
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I agree with APKhaos.
Worn wheel bearings are noisy at all speeds. Unbalanced tyres vibrate at a limited speed range, and usually vibration does not increase with speed.
For a simple theoretical explanation of shaft vibration see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint
Take your shaft off to a shop equipped with a shaft balancing machine before changing anything else
Cheers:steer:
 
Ok, so here's an update. The vibration seemed to improve a bit after I drove it for a few days, but I did drop it off Wednesday for further diagnosis.

FYI - I'm just passing on what the shop has told me, as I'm not wrenching it myself. I won't have it back in my hands until tonight.

1) they balanced all 4 tires, one was 3.5 oz out of balance (IIRC), others were less. Vibration/Harmonic improved considerably with rebalanced tires.

2) they ran it on a hoist and could not hear anything with a stethescope that pinpointed the noise from anywhere in particular or gave them any inclination what the vibration could be from (obviously, running unloaded on the hoist changes lots of things).

3) removed rear driveshaft (the one that was just balanced), drove it in FWD and vibration was WORSE.

4) Put in rear driveshaft, removed front driveshaft, drove it in RWD and noise was somewhat improved.

Their diagnosis is that the vibration is coming from the front axle or from the t-case, as they can feel it through the T-Case lever.

There. That's the diagnosis from the Chrysler dealership. Not as scientific as I'd like, wish I had someone who was a LC guru around.....but perhaps narrows things down a bit.

...........
 
JETTIX2 said:
Ok, so here's an update. The vibration seemed to improve a bit after I drove it for a few days, but I did drop it off Wednesday for further diagnosis.

FYI - I'm just passing on what the shop has told me, as I'm not wrenching it myself. I won't have it back in my hands until tonight.

1) they balanced all 4 tires, one was 3.5 oz out of balance (IIRC), others were less. Vibration/Harmonic improved considerably with rebalanced tires.

2) they ran it on a hoist and could not hear anything with a stethescope that pinpointed the noise from anywhere in particular or gave them any inclination what the vibration could be from (obviously, running unloaded on the hoist changes lots of things).

3) removed rear driveshaft (the one that was just balanced), drove it in FWD and vibration was WORSE.

4) Put in rear driveshaft, removed front driveshaft, drove it in RWD and noise was somewhat improved.

Their diagnosis is that the vibration is coming from the front axle or from the t-case, as they can feel it through the T-Case lever.

There. That's the diagnosis from the Chrysler dealership. Not as scientific as I'd like, wish I had someone who was a LC guru around.....but perhaps narrows things down a bit.

...........
Click to expand...

My front shaft was more out of balance than the rear shaft when they were sent off for re-jointing and balancing. That being said, it was still the rear that made the most noise when running individually with CD locked. I would say you have ruled out a diff problem as they would hear any diff noises while listening to it running on the lift. Re-joint and balance the front shaft and make sure they check the shaft for trueness. The first shop re-jointed and balanced my shafts, but never checked for trueness. The second shop found that the rear was fairly well balanced, but shaped like a banana. Also make sure they are spinning them fast.

To completely solve my problems after regearing to 4.88, they had to custom make new shafts for mine, install a harmonic flange on the rear, and play around the orientation, phase, etc. Now I'm quiet and clunk free.
 
First thing I would do, is to check the spindle bearings. Because:
1: It can give symptoms like described
2: It's very easy and takes 5 mins per side


nother thing known to give similar vibs is stuck hand brake shoes.
 
I have exactly the same issue as described. I have a new dc front shaft and new rear drive shaft. It is quieter with everything I do, but still there, so I must have another issue that I am missing. Keep us updated if you figure it out.
 
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