Snowlands Org wants full closeure of the Rubicon

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El Dorado County CA
Long read but worth reading.
JB

Originally Posted by Marcus Libkind

Snowlands Network - Promoting opportunities for quality, human-powered
winter recreation and protecting winter wildlands

March 3, 2009

Central Valley Regional Water Quality Control Board
11020 Sun Center Drive #200
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670-6114

Dear Water Quality Control Board,

This letter contains the comments of Snowlands Network on the “Draft Cleanup and Abatement Order, Rubicon Trail, El Dorado County.”

Snowlands is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to promote opportunities for quality, human-powered winter recreation and protect the winter environment. Snowlands believes that the use of 4x4 vehicles on the Rubicon Trail during the wet seasons (fall, winter and spring) causes excessive damage to the environment through erosion and sedimentation.

The use of 4x4 vehicles on the Rubicon Trail is a very controversial issue. Snowlands is very pleased that the Water Quality Control Board has taken up the issue of sedimentation caused by this use and we fully support your efforts. We hope that the Board will stick firmly to their goal of eliminating unnecessary sedimentation and the release of petroleum products in order to prevent further stream degradation.

Erosion 50 times greater than normal

The Water Quality Control Board has already determined that in at least one location sedimentation is 50 times greater than should be expected and that this is due to the use of 4x4 vehicles. The goal of the Board should be to immediately stop continued sedimentation and not permit future use until such time as it can be shown that changes have been made that prevent future sedimentation.

At the same time changes must be made to prevent the future discharge of oil and petroleum products into the environment.

Vehicle use reduction plan is insufficient

Simply to reduce the number of vehicles on the Rubicon Trail is insufficient to remedy the situation. The Water Quality Control Board should insist on a complete halt of vehicle use on the trail until such time as all the necessary improvements, e.g. bridges, are implemented. Without any other data it could be assumed that reducing vehicle use of the trail by 50 percent at best reduces sedimentation by 50 percent. That results in 25 times the rate of sedimentation that should be expected. That is not acceptable and therefore there must be a total ban on vehicle use until such time as all necessary improvements are completed.

No use of vehicles during wet seasons

The 4x4 vehicle community would like the Water Quality Control Board to believe that vehicle use during the wet seasons does not cause harm to the environment. They particularly like to show a photo of a jeep riding “on top” of the snow and say “see, 4x4 vehicle use doesn’t harm the environment.” That image is not the typical of winter use. The following three photos show what is most common in winter.

The damage to the environment caused by this type of winter use will continue regardless of the construction of a few bridges. Therefore, winter vehicle use of the Rubicon Trail must be prohibited in order to prevent continued erosion sedimentation.

In the shoulder seasons, fall and spring, the impacts of 4x4 vehicle use on the Rubicon Trail is just as destructive as winter and contributes to excessive erosion and sedimentation. The following two photos are typical of what occurs during these times.

Again, the construction of a few bridges will not eliminate the environmental damage done by the use of 4x4 vehicles on the Rubicon Trail in the shoulder seasons. Therefore, fall and spring vehicle use of the Rubicon Trail must be prohibited in order to prevent continued erosion and sedimentation.

Given the clear and present danger to the environment from the use of vehicles on the Rubicon Trail during fall, winter and spring, this use must be prohibited, not just reduced.

Oil and other petroleum products are also a problem

The entrance of oil and other petroleum products into the environment is a problem resulting from the extreme ruggedness of the Rubicon Trail. Petroleum products enter the environment as a result of two causes.

• 4x4 vehicles regularly damage their oil pans and transmissions thereby releasing petroleum products into the environment. The first photo below shows the terrain that causes these accidents and the second and third photos are examples of oil residue left behind.

The oil and other petroleum products eventually find their way into streams and lakes.

• Oil and other petroleum products are also discharged into the environment when 4x4 vehicles overturn. This is a common occurrence and in many cases viewed as “fun” within the 4x4 community. The following three photos are examples of overturns that result in petroleum product discharge into the environment. Notice the crowd of on-lookers enjoying the thrill of the overturn in the first photo.

To put an end to oil and other petroleum products entering the environment as a result of extreme 4x4 vehicle use (1) the Rubicon Trail must be restored to its original condition where street legal 4x4 vehicles are capable of traversing the trail, and (2) only street legal vehicles should be allowed on the Rubicon Trail. The restriction to street legal vehicles is in keeping with El Dorado County’s claim that the Rubicon Trail is a county road. Only street legal vehicles are permitted on county roads.

No method for dealing with human waste

With thousands of 4x4 vehicles and many more people on the Rubicon Trail each year the problem of human waste needs to be addressed. How bad is it? Spider Lake had to be closed to public use because the entire vicinity was littered with human waste. El Dorado County needs to address how human waste is going to be dealt with in order to protect the environment.

Snowlands Network urges the Water Quality Control Board to require El Dorado County to include in the management plan for the Rubicon Trail the requirement that each vehicle carry the equipment necessary to carry out their own human waste. This is easily done by requiring each vehicle to carry a WAG bag system (What is a WAG Bag?).

The 4x4 vehicle community should not be allowed to be any less environmentally responsible than the boating community that must carry out their human waste from rivers.

Failure of El Dorado County to adequately manage the Rubicon Trail

El Dorado County has known for many years of the devastation to the environment that has occurred as a result of uncontrolled vehicle use on the Rubicon Trail. They have repeatedly done little, if anything, to halt the erosion and discharge of petroleum products that has occurred. After years of work and at least $400,000 the County has completed a environmental impact report (EIR) for the Rubicon Trail. All that remains is for the Board of Supervisors to decide on what alternative to adopt for the Rubicon Trail Master Plan. Instead of completing the process, El Dorado County claims that they do not have funds to complete the process. Again, all that is required is for the Board of Supervisors to make a decision! Clearly the county has no desire to follow through with adoption of a management plan.

The Water Quality Control Board is the one bright hope for the public-at-large that looks for some agency to step up to the plate and do what is best for our natural heritage and the environment.
Snowlands Network applauds the Water Quality Control Board for their efforts with respect to the problems that exist on the Rubicon Trail. We urge that the Board to force a change in the way the Rubicon Trail is managed and to strictly monitor any actions by the County to ensure that steps are taken to stem the tide of devastation.

Friends of the Rubicon has not improved the situation

No doubt the Water Quality Control Board will receive comments from the 4x4 vehicle community, in particular Friends of the Rubicon, touting their efforts to fix the problems that exist on the Rubicon Trail. They will claim some huge number of volunteer hours, probably in the range of 20,000 to 30,000 hours, and say that through their work they are dealing with the problems. Obviously this is not true given the data available and the Board’s findings.

The 4x4 community does not have the necessary manpower, equipment or skills to make the changes necessary. More important, the changes that are necessary, e.g. eliminating the extremely difficult sections of the trail to prevent petroleum discharge, is exactly what they do not want to happen to the Rubicon Trail. For this reason the Board should not allow the future of the Rubicon Trail and the environment to be put in the hands of the 4x4 community that does not want to see a change in the Trail.

Conclusion

Snowlands Network urges the Central Valley Regional Water Quality Control Board to take strict action to reverse the ongoing degradation to the environment on and surrounding the Rubicon Trail. The Board needs to set the guidelines for what must be changed; it can’t be left to El Dorado County and the 4x4 community because they have been ineffective.

Snowlands urges the Board to place the following items as priorities:

• End all wet season use of the Rubicon Trail; it is not sufficient to simply reduce use during the wet seasons. This use is the main cause of erosion and sedimentation. In general the wet season begins November 1 and ends May 31 though a plan should be flexible to take into account wetter and drier years.

• Until such time as bridges are installed at stream crossings, the Rubicon Trail should be closed to motor vehicle use in the dry season.

• After bridges have been installed, during the dry season there must be a quota system for vehicle use of the Rubicon Trail in order to prevent over use. As part of this quota system people must be required to obtain a permit, thereby providing an opportunity to inspect the vehicles and provide educational information to the trail users. This is equivalent to the process that is used on many rivers, e.g. the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon, to protect the environment.

• A fee must be charged for use of the Rubicon Trail that is sufficient to cover the cost of maintenance and management of the Rubicon Trail. This is equivalent to the fees charged for access to other special places like the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon.

• Return the Rubicon Trail to its original condition in which street legal vehicles can traverse it.

• Only allow street legal vehicles on the Rubicon Trail.

• Gates and signage should be installed at all access points to the Rubicon Trail so that there is no doubt when the trail is closed to motor vehicle use.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment on the Draft Cleanup and Abatement Order, Rubicon Trail, El Dorado County. Please put Snowlands Network on the mailing list for future information about this issue and the Rubicon Trail in general.

Very truly yours,


Marcus Libkind
Chairman
Snowlands Network
 
Marcus Libkind

#!#!#!#! HEAD
 
#!#!#!#! HEAD

Come on, this isn't pirate, we can be eloquent and not resort to language that... well, I use quite often, especially when working on jeeps. :bang:

First of all, nobody should be at all surprised by this. Arguably the most famous trail in the states, if not that, then certainly west of the mississippi, is going to be the biggest targets for those of the population who do not appreciate (much less understand) our hobby. This is going to be a bitter fight for the rest of our lives, or until people bent on the destruction of our hobby win, whichever comes first. Winning this will be the ultimate victory for those bent on destroying our hobby.

Second of all, the letter posted is very well written. It directs its attention towards something that has succeeded in closing trails VERY quickly in the past - stuff that isn't water ending up in the water, and this getting reported to a water QUALITY control board. It very clearly states three things that we know:
- lots of rigs run the rubicon, and when the ground is wet, this causes lots of erosion.
- rigs break and tip over on the rubicon, and when this happens, it's very difficult to keep all the non-water things out of the water.
- a discernable portion of the hobby fits well into Abbey's stereotype of fourwheelers in general. It is this fringe element that causes the most problems for the hobby.

You can expect that this is NOT going to go away any time soon, and you can expect that as a four wheeler, you are in the vast minority when it comes to your views on the trails. What can you do? Well, everyone on here knows what you can do. I'm not going to reiterate that, as you should all know that and be doing it already.

What I can remind you to do is this: Remember that it is nobody's environment to destroy, and respond to eloquence and well articulated, emotionless thought with eloquence and well articulated, emotionless thought. It is totally possible to have respect for the environment and still go play with your rock rig, and there's no better time than the present to do so.
 
Wag bag, portable toliet to hold you paper and fecal mater. Pack in, pack it out.
Rubicon may need to change in many ways, But not closed. Eco Thugs are hard to deal with. Laws about water are even more fun to deal with. It will take a bit of time, but hopefully if enough people get involved it will not close.
 
Trails can be used and conserved,the Boy Scouts have done it for years. Mike
 
Its amazing to me that there are STILL many wheelers who are just NOT GETTING the "tread lightly" ideology.
Im not at all surprised by this letter. I hate to hear it, but Im not surprised by it.
I have a feeling the Rubicon is going to end up like the Barrett lake trail, if not more restricted.
 
Can someone explain to me WHAT sedimentation is?
Is it debris and silt that is kicked up when wheeling through that gets deposited in the lakes and rivers and such?
Is this individual a scientist, or someone who can actually PROVE that these events are happening and it is directly related to 4x4 activity?

Im gonna have to google this group to find out a bit more about what their motivation is.

Chicago
 
Apparently were "spoiling" their "human-powered" winter recreation activities.

Chicago
 
Trails can be used and conserved,the Boy Scouts have done it for years. Mike

True, but the boy scouts usually use human power to get places or pack animals. Since human power and pack animals aren't motored vehicles, they're not necessarily evil.

Well, at least the boy scouts did when I was growing up.

Can someone explain to me WHAT sedimentation is?
Is it debris and silt that is kicked up when wheeling through that gets deposited in the lakes and rivers and such?
Is this individual a scientist, or someone who can actually PROVE that these events are happening and it is directly related to 4x4 activity?
Chicago

That's the nuts and bolts of it that I got - erosion causing sediments to get into the water, and having the water carry that downstream. The idea is that if there weren't vehicles with lockers and boggers, the rivers wouldn't get as much sediment in there - so either put bridges in or keep the vehicles off in the first place.

The sinister part is that everyone knows this is a beautiful place to go. Nobody wants it destroyed, and nobody wants it to be crowded. Catch is, with it being public, it is easy for it to get crowded. Eliminate the wheeled traffic and make it harder to get to, and only the backpackers and equestrians get to enjoy it...

Whether there is actual science behind this or not is anybody's guess. What I got from the letter is that the water quality district did some measurements and found that the sediment is higher than it should be. I didn't get whether there were measurements saying that removing traffic would necessarily improve it, or whether the types of rainfall we've been getting (NASTY storms then nothing for the rest of the season) the past couple of years have anything to do with it. My driveway is proof that the rain has been coming down harder in the past couple of years than normal (even though there hasn't been much of it).

Similar "science" can be used to prove that there is global warming, but do not get me started on that topic. We're talking about trying to keep trails open by not being "that guy".
 
This post kinda bugged me after reading it last night.
At the surface, it seems that the group prompting this drastic of a measure is just some tree huggers trying to ban all access...just because.
Under the surface after looking at the web page, its purely selfish motivations driving this campaign. They want TOTAL un-adulterated access to the trails free of any OTHER means of exploration than "human-power". There are THOUSANDS of miles of terrain those folks can take part in. The Rubicon trail is what....13 miles long give or take.
Not that it should be thrown to the wolves and forgotten, but what gives.
However, there are a handful of wheelers out there who have no concern what so ever in regards to the environment or of what is at stake, and it is those who they are making the examples of.

Just goes to show...people are watching ALL THE TIME on the trails.

How much weight does this group carry in the grand scheme of things? It doesnt appear that they are "officials" in any sense. They have no more say than we do, so it seems.

Not to minimize their conviction, but...they want the same thing that any of us would want, only they want it exclusively.

Chicago
 
Well the President of the Org is...

"Marcus Libkind is a mechanical engineer by trade, but has 21 years experience working on winter recreation issues. He is a member of the Winter Recreation Task force within the California State Department of Parks and Recreation and a board member of the Winter Wildlands Alliance, a national non-profit organization representing human-powered winter recreation enthusiasts. Marcus works closely with the Sierra Club, the Center for Sierra Nevada Conservation, the Planning and Conservation League, Friends of the River, and other environmental organizations on issues related to off-highway vehicle use, including snowmobiling. He is author of five guidebooks on ski touring in the Sierra Nevada and Lassen Volcanic National Park."


Freakin' Sierra Club has another angle and another club to ruin our fun.
That about says it all.
 
Well the President of the Org is...

"Marcus Libkind is a mechanical engineer by trade, but has 21 years experience working on winter recreation issues. He is a member of the Winter Recreation Task force within the California State Department of Parks and Recreation and a board member of the Winter Wildlands Alliance, a national non-profit organization representing human-powered winter recreation enthusiasts. Marcus works closely with the Sierra Club, the Center for Sierra Nevada Conservation, the Planning and Conservation League, Friends of the River, and other environmental organizations on issues related to off-highway vehicle use, including snowmobiling. He is author of five guidebooks on ski touring in the Sierra Nevada and Lassen Volcanic National Park."


Freakin' Sierra Club has another angle and another club to ruin our fun.
That about says it all.


DRRRRRAAAAAAAG!!!!!:bang::crybaby:
I was hoping that he was just some average joe like the rest of us.
 
DRRRRRAAAAAAAG!!!!!:bang::crybaby:
I was hoping that he was just some average joe like the rest of us.

You might be surprised how many of "us" are engineers or scientists. That being said, this fellow is perverting both science and logic in a serious way. Almost every issue he brings forth can also be levied against Highway 50, which traverses the same area. The sedimentation from 50 is much less per mile, but considering all the miles and that almost of 50 West of the pass drains into the American River, I would not be surprised that it produced a significantly larger sedimentation load than the Rubicon. The amount of petroleum products 50 puts in to the watershed is probably an order of magnitude (10x) or more than the Rubicon, both from the traffic and the road material itself. He is just choosing to pick on the Rubicon because it is poorly defended relative to Highway 50. You could imagine the response he would get if he suggested shutting it down except for the summer.
 
You might be surprised how many of "us" are engineers or scientists. That being said, this fellow is perverting both science and logic in a serious way. Almost every issue he brings forth can also be levied against Highway 50, which traverses the same area. The sedimentation from 50 is much less per mile, but considering all the miles and that almost of 50 West of the pass drains into the American River, I would not be surprised that it produced a significantly larger sedimentation load than the Rubicon. The amount of petroleum products 50 puts in to the watershed is probably an order of magnitude (10x) or more than the Rubicon, both from the traffic and the road material itself. He is just choosing to pick on the Rubicon because it is poorly defended relative to Highway 50. You could imagine the response he would get if he suggested shutting it down except for the summer.

Not really surprised...Going to the functions, I meet MORE AND MORE of you people each time I go.:D
I was only saying that the individual who took the time to write the letter is obviously VERY motivated in his convictions and has quite a bit of experience in achieving his agendas. It seems that he researched and gathered information to make this presentation.
These points that you bring up are great, but where would the "average joe" engineer, scientist or (in my case) RN go to be able to formulate a rebuttal letter refuting these claims he is making by backing it with scientific data and evidence?
In other words, if necessary, how do you FIGHT it?
This is NOT just about trail etiquette, and cleaning up after yourself, the points he is making are things that are in a lot of ways beyond our control if you wheel the Rubicon, especially the sedimentation rate.

Chicago
 

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