Serious plumbing question

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Joined
Apr 2, 2007
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Messages
192
Location
Heart of the Alaska Range
Website
www.denalihwy.com
200 miles to town - each way - means that I do virtually all the plumbing, electric, construction and mechanical work around here. Occasionally I get in over my head, however. Perhaps there is a Mudder with enough plumbing background to give some direction here?

I need to alter fairly significantly my waterworks. Effectively, I need to bring all my separately-pressurized units together and have all my systems emanate from a single pressure tank.

Here is what I have to work with:

* a well & well pump that is adequate for my combined needs

* a pressure tank in the house/office.

* (shortly to be installed) dcw AND dhw lines - 1" diam each - to all units

What I need to do is enhance the pressure tank. At present, it is a 42-gallon tank: fairly standard for a single house, at least around here. I am looking to achieve the following two goals:

1) diminish the # of cycles the well pump sees, and

2) provide adequate pressurization for as many as SIX simultaneous showers/toilet flushes/etc.

Now, the former is a fine goal for any plumbing system, but it is all the more critical here because of the insanely high cost of electricity we see (we are at TWENTY times the national average, at $2.25/kWh - and yes, I am doing $omething about that, as well - but not in this thread). By the way, that immense cost is one reason I have zero interest in going the route of a cycle-stop valve to achieve my goal.

My tanks, like others in this region, are NOT "modern" bladder-style units, but the older galvanized steel tanks. I intend to keep that route: first, I like the way I never have to deal with "waterlogged" tanks, but more importantly, we have frozen ground approximately eight months out of the year, and this older technology's system of air-release + snifter valve to drain the well line after every cycle means, again, one less headache for me to contend with.

OK, that's background. Now the question: can I easily place in series two or more tanks? I have the real estate in my water-room sufficient to add either an 82-gallon or 120-gallon pressure tank. But I don't see any reason to abandon the otherwise fine extant 42-gallon unit. Have I any problems simply joining - without even a check valve, I should think - that second tank? If so, need I - MUST I - add the normally requisite air-release float onto that second tank? Obviously, there can be only one snifter valve - thus if I keep the existing tank it will stay right where it is.

I know that ideally, the location - that is, depth in the well - of the snifter's "release valve" is supposed to be a function of the size of the pressure tank. In practice, however, around here we just drill a weep hole in the well pipe a few feet above the well pump and call that good. So, unless I hear some incontrovertible reason why that parameter must be exactly followed, I think we can ignore any change there.

Are there other items I have to concern myself with?
 
I assume you have a downhole submersible pump, not a jet pump.

I have no direct experience with this, but I can't see any reason why you couldn't have 2 tanks on the system, as long as you have a way to keep the air replenished, and the air release on each to remove excess air if it builds up.
 
Yes - a downhole submersed.

Exactly: I can't see any reason I can't put in two, either. With these tanks, the air automatically comes in and then gets sealed off each time with the float-seal that these tanks possess (like a toilet float valve, for those who don't know these tanks but for some perverse reason, are reading this thread anyway ;) ).

The biggest hesitation I have is whether there might be any counter-productive imbalance occurring with two tanks each having their own air valves - but I've pondered and pondered it and cannot come up with a scenario where that might foul things up.
 
Honestly, I've never seen a system like you describe, but it sounds kinda clever. I can understand your reasoning, ie: protecting the pipe from freezing. I would worry about overworking the pump, having it refill all that line each cycle.

I have designed large residential systems for supplying water out to condo developments (long time ago), and I seem to remember them having multiple tanks in the pump house, instead of one big $$$ tank. We used a small compressor to keep the tanks aired up, though.
 
That last paragraph of yours is good news....

Avoiding overworking the pump is one strong reason for my performing this entire exercise. In my situation, your worries are moot: it is a fine shallow well (<30'), and an extremely short run to the pressure tanks - about 18'. I am trying hard to reduce all those on/off cycles!
 
I am a plumber but have no experience with what you are trying to do. That said I see no reason you can't do what you are describing. My only thought was when the pump does have to come on will it be able to handle the extra "load."

Sent from my Nexus S using IH8MUD
 
The pump shouldn't see anything different, no increase in head or flow rate. It will run a lot longer, but for fewer cycles (which is the intent).
 
The snifter, weephole, and release valve were used around here about 30 - 40 years ago. they worked well as long as the float valve keeps working. I've pulled pumps that had a rubber insert on the well line that would close under pressure so the weep hole would close when the pump was running.


The problem with a second tank is the second tank won't be recharged with air when the pump runs. You could add a large bladder tank down stream from the galv tank. The well line would still drain, the air would be caught by the the galv tank and the bladder tank would just give you your added storage-drawdown.

There wouldn't be any extra load just longer cycles.
 

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