Seeking powder coating advice/opinions

[edwards_rljr]

I'm no expert on powder coating and am looking for some advice or opinions from people that have some experience with it. I recently took some parts from my FJ40 to have them sandblasted and powder coated thinking this would be THE BEST way to restore and preserve these old parts that can be hard to come by and sometimes are irreplaceable.

I went into this thinking that they would sandblast all the old paint and rust off and then powder coat the parts and they would be completely covered with the stuff and I would pretty much never have to worry about them rusting again.

I took a variety of small parts to them, such as my front and rear heater housings and some brackets and things like that.

well, when I went to pick them up, I found out that someone had knocked over the box they had my stuff in and some of the parts had fallen out onto a concrete floor and were damaged, the powder coat had been scraped off, I thought this was odd since I thought powder coating was supposed to be really durable? anyway, the guy was pissed that his guys had done this and not told him and I drove out there but he said he was going to redo the damaged pieces... while looking through the pieces he even found that a couple of pieces had not been completely coated anyway, namely the front heater box which has all kinds of cracks and crevices and bends etc... he looked through the rest of the pieces and said they looked fine and i was looking at the damaged ones and really didn't look at all the other pieces that he said were ok.

He told me I could go ahead and take the rest with me and come back tomorrow and pick the other pieces up because he was going to redo them first thing in the morning and make sure they were done right.

Well, I got home and started taking the other pieces out and looking them over and am really unsatisfied with what I got honestly... but I don't know the in's and out's of powder coating and if I'm maybe expecting too much ? I don't know if you all know about the heaters in a FJ40, but for example, the rear heater housing parts are sheet metal that is bent and spot welded together and has several places with crevices where two pieces of metal are put together and in these cracks/crevices, the powder coating is not down in there ... I can still see metal.. to me, this means that moisture is just going to gather in there and start rusting all over again...

The other thing that's really bothering me is that every piece has a bare metal spot where it was hanging from a hook when it was coated and cooked... I realize that the pieces have to be hung up to do this but it just seems like something would be done to make sure that everything was completely coated even if it meant having to do it once then move the hook so you could get that spot coated and cook it again.. I know that would be more work for them but it seems to me that the whole point of paying a premium for powder coating would mean that they would make absolutely sure that the whole part was completely coated with no bare metal spots left for rust to begin again.

So, I'm interested to hear opinions from other people that have had parts powder coated and if this type of thing is typical and I'm expecting too much and should just touch the parts up with some paint myself, or if I need to take all these parts back and tell him I want them touched up or whatever so that they are all completely coated?

 

[webelk6]

I had nothing but success with my powdercoater. If they missed something, they re did it. Ya it will chip if you are rough with re assembly, but is a superior finish. They should also "chemically" bathe your stuff to remove any contaminants. Otherwise, those areas can be suspect.

If you check my build thread, I have numerous examples of the stuff I had powdercoated.

 

[edwards_rljr]

thanks for the reply. I talked to the guy that did my stuff a little while ago and voiced my concerns about the spots of exposed metal where the parts where hung on hooks. He is trying to tell me that is just how it works because the powder can't get where the hook is touching the metal. It just seems to me that they would use a really thin hook on parts that are smaller and light weight because most of the spots on my stuff is 1/8 inch or so wide. To me, this just seems like an opportunity for moisture in the air to start causing it to rust again. His reply to that is that it shouldn't be a problem and that if that one little spot does rust, then it will not go any further because the powder coat is 'bonded' to the metal so it will not 'spider-rust' underneath the metal like can happen when paint is chipped or scratched.. I don't know if I believe this is true or not? I just want to make sure I'm not getting screwed with a bad job. It just seems like if this really is 'just how it is' with powder coating, then after it is baked, then you would move the hook to another spot that is already coated and then put powder on the spot still exposed and bake it again.. obviously this is more work, but if you are paying a premium for powder coating, I would thing the whole point is that the entire part is COMPLETELY coated. Did your parts have any exposed/bare metal showing where the hooks were?

 

[webelk6]

thanks for the reply. I talked to the guy that did my stuff a little while ago and voiced my concerns about the spots of exposed metal where the parts where hung on hooks. He is trying to tell me that is just how it works because the powder can't get where the hook is touching the metal. It just seems to me that they would use a really thin hook on parts that are smaller and light weight because most of the spots on my stuff is 1/8 inch or so wide. To me, this just seems like an opportunity for moisture in the air to start causing it to rust again. His reply to that is that it shouldn't be a problem and that if that one little spot does rust, then it will not go any further because the powder coat is 'bonded' to the metal so it will not 'spider-rust' underneath the metal like can happen when paint is chipped or scratched.. I don't know if I believe this is true or not? I just want to make sure I'm not getting screwed with a bad job. It just seems like if this really is 'just how it is' with powder coating, then after it is baked, then you would move the hook to another spot that is already coated and then put powder on the spot still exposed and bake it again.. obviously this is more work, but if you are paying a premium for powder coating, I would thing the whole point is that the entire part is COMPLETELY coated. Did your parts have any exposed/bare metal showing where the hooks were?

Parts had exposure. Very small tho. Anything that accepts a bolt is a different story. The coater should install a bolt and hang the part from the bolt. Plug any holes with a cork like substance too. At least that is what my guy did.

I am curious what he is charging you and what parts. IIRC the hook was moved when coating. Then baking

 

[powdercoater]

Remember, choosing your powder coater is just like choosing any other service provider. You usually get what you pay for.

When a coater doesnt even care enough to attempt to find ways to hang things so they dont leave hook marks, it's time to find a new coater.

As far as the two pieces of sheet metal that come together and powder not being in there- it depends on how good the applicator is at 'faraday cage' effect, where powder will magnetically bounce back off because of all of the positive and currents shifting about... It could be lack of professionalism, technique, or just a crappy coating job.

For what it's worth, we coat every single piece of metal on the ICON FJ40's, and know it can be done correctly.

Best,

Sandee Andrews
Andrews Powder Coating, Inc.

 

[edwards_rljr]

Pictures of my powder coated heater parts and other misc parts

ok, so I got all my stuff back from the powder coater and finally got some pictures taken of the stuff. It was really hard to get good pictures of the parts up close but I did the best I could. You can see the bare spots where the parts where hung on hooks and every single part has these bare spots where they were hung... there are also a few spots where parts just didn't get completely coated... usually inside a tighter place like the inside of the heater hose pipe covers or inside the rear heater housing top piece and on the bottom piece between the underside of the plate and the legs where it bolts to the floor.

when I asked the guy about all these things, he told me that was just how it was and it was impossible to get the powder into tight spaces sometimes and that you will always have spots where the parts are hung... told me that he was insulted that I was questioning the quality of his work and that he had never had anyone bring anything back.

I called 2 other powder coaters in other cities about an hour away and told them that I was looking for information about the process and what I should expect. Told them I had some parts coated by someone and that there were these 1/8 inch bare spots where the parts were hung and there were other spots where they were not completely coated. Both told me that it sounded like my guy used hooks that were too big for the parts and that he should've been using small gauge wire hooks so that they would have the minimum contact with the part... and that it was not good if the parts where not completely coated either and if they weren't, then the guy doesn't really know what he's doing. They also told me that they put 2 coats on stuff they do.. meaning.. coat it - bake it, then coat it and bake it again.. when I asked my coater about this, he basically tried to skirt the issue and say that he gets enough powder on there the first time... so basically I think I got a little screwed over on this deal... I don't think he liked being questioned about the quality of his work .. and who does really?.. but if the parts had been completely coated we wouldn't have been having the conversation ... from what I could see in his shop, it looks like he normally deals with large items like fence railings, trailer frames, and other larger pieces with a lot of flat surface area and not much tight places to get between.. I think my parts were small potatoes compared to what they normally do and he just saw it as an opportunity to make some easy money and then didn't want to deal with me when I pointed out the problems.

Another issue I had with this guys work is that I had asked him if he needed me to bring old bolts to put in the threaded holes so they wouldn't get the stuff down in the threads and he said no, that they had stuff to plug threaded holes .. and then they didn't plug them and the threaded holes have the powder coat down in them to some extent and I will probably have to use a tap to clean them out now.

I'm happy with the finish on the parts, the way it looks overall, I like the matte black that I chose, I just don't like that there are bare spots where the hooks were and areas that did not get completely coated. I think they should have had two coats like the other people I talked to said. Now, the parts that they knocked off the cart and scratched up and then recoated, they look best, I guess because they got a second coat, those parts where the front heater housing, the lower radiator pipe, the door handles, and the alternator bracket... all those parts look like they have a nice thick coating on them compared to the other parts.

All the parts I had done - 37 pieces - if you're not familiar with these FJ40 parts, the floor tiles are 12x12 to give you perspective on size of parts.

door handles

front heater housing

this is the bottom part of the rear heater.. couldn't get a clear picture unfortunately, but the marked area is where I can still see the metal.

top of the rear heater.. you can see what I mean better in this shot

heater hose cover where inside is not completely coated

this bracket shows where they didn't get it down inside this crevice where the two pieces of metal are joined

this is just an example of the hook marks that are on every part. I just think they could've used a smaller hook and gotten the parts covered better.

 

[kb3gun]

Those parts look like ones I've done myself with my Eastwood kit. But I'm no professional and I bake them in an oven in my garage. As Sandee mentioned above, it takes good equipment and technique to get the powder to 'cover' seams. I normally preheat my parts with seams to help the powder stick as I don't have that technique.
I get hanger marks too, but it's normally bolt holes that will be covered by hardware and I touch it up with paint before assembly.

 

[webelk6]

ok, so I got all my stuff back from the powder coater and finally got some pictures taken of the stuff. It was really hard to get good pictures of the parts up close but I did the best I could. You can see the bare spots where the parts where hung on hooks and every single part has these bare spots where they were hung... there are also a few spots where parts just didn't get completely coated... usually inside a tighter place like the inside of the heater hose pipe covers or inside the rear heater housing top piece and on the bottom piece between the underside of the plate and the legs where it bolts to the floor.

when I asked the guy about all these things, he told me that was just how it was and it was impossible to get the powder into tight spaces sometimes and that you will always have spots where the parts are hung... told me that he was insulted that I was questioning the quality of his work and that he had never had anyone bring anything back.

I called 2 other powder coaters in other cities about an hour away and told them that I was looking for information about the process and what I should expect. Told them I had some parts coated by someone and that there were these 1/8 inch bare spots where the parts were hung and there were other spots where they were not completely coated. Both told me that it sounded like my guy used hooks that were too big for the parts and that he should've been using small gauge wire hooks so that they would have the minimum contact with the part... and that it was not good if the parts where not completely coated either and if they weren't, then the guy doesn't really know what he's doing. They also told me that they put 2 coats on stuff they do.. meaning.. coat it - bake it, then coat it and bake it again.. when I asked my coater about this, he basically tried to skirt the issue and say that he gets enough powder on there the first time... so basically I think I got a little screwed over on this deal... I don't think he liked being questioned about the quality of his work .. and who does really?.. but if the parts had been completely coated we wouldn't have been having the conversation ... from what I could see in his shop, it looks like he normally deals with large items like fence railings, trailer frames, and other larger pieces with a lot of flat surface area and not much tight places to get between.. I think my parts were small potatoes compared to what they normally do and he just saw it as an opportunity to make some easy money and then didn't want to deal with me when I pointed out the problems.

Another issue I had with this guys work is that I had asked him if he needed me to bring old bolts to put in the threaded holes so they wouldn't get the stuff down in the threads and he said no, that they had stuff to plug threaded holes .. and then they didn't plug them and the threaded holes have the powder coat down in them to some extent and I will probably have to use a tap to clean them out now.

I'm happy with the finish on the parts, the way it looks overall, I like the matte black that I chose, I just don't like that there are bare spots where the hooks were and areas that did not get completely coated. I think they should have had two coats like the other people I talked to said. Now, the parts that they knocked off the cart and scratched up and then recoated, they look best, I guess because they got a second coat, those parts where the front heater housing, the lower radiator pipe, the door handles, and the alternator bracket... all those parts look like they have a nice thick coating on them compared to the other parts.

All the parts I had done - 37 pieces - if you're not familiar with these FJ40 parts, the floor tiles are 12x12 to give you perspective on size of parts.

door handles

front heater housing

this is the bottom part of the rear heater.. couldn't get a clear picture unfortunately, but the marked area is where I can still see the metal.

top of the rear heater.. you can see what I mean better in this shot

heater hose cover where inside is not completely coated

this bracket shows where they didn't get it down inside this crevice where the two pieces of metal are joined

this is just an example of the hook marks that are on every part. I just think they could've used a smaller hook and gotten the parts covered better.

Things like the heater hose clamps and door handles. Just wondering why you powdercoated those as well as the rear heater. Then only thing out of those I had done was the rear heater to keep the stock color. Things that are plate colored and chrome can be re-chromed and things like bolts, brakelines etc. can be re-plated.

 

[edwards_rljr]

Things like the heater hose clamps and door handles. Just wondering why you powdercoated those as well as the rear heater. Then only thing out of those I had done was the rear heater to keep the stock color. Things that are plate colored and chrome can be re-chromed and things like bolts, brakelines etc. can be re-plated.

The reason I decided to have those other small parts powder coated was because they all had some rust on them.. those heater hose clamp cover things had a little.. not a lot.. but they were obviously just painted with black paint... the small bracket parts that hold the plastic air duct thing where pretty rusty even though they are inside the cab.. they looked like they had once been plated with the zinc chromate? or whatever it is ... I wanted to have the heater housing parts done so I just decided that I might as well have the various small parts powder coated while I was at it so that they would, hopefully, have a durable coating that would last for many years and that I would not have to worry about them rusting again and I THOUGHT that the powder coating process meant my stuff would be COMPLETELY coated and encapsulated in the powder coating and not have bare metal showing through in places ...

I thought about just painting those smaller parts with rattle can rustoleum or whatever but when I first talked to the guy about my stuff, he made it sound like the more parts I had to do, the better deal I would get on the price and when I considered the time and work and cost it would take me to clean up those other parts myself and then paint them with spray paint that most likely would not last , I just decided to get those done too.

Another issue for me is just a matter of personal taste... I don't like bright shiny chrome or gold or brassy colored stuff... I like brushed chrome sometimes... and brushed stainless steel... I like silvers and grays , just not glossy/shiny finishes (usually) ... I HATE gold or brassy colored finishes like the zinc chromate stuff... I HATE screws and nuts and bolts that are gold or brassy looking... so I would never have anything of mine replated in that stuff if I can help it... I try to replace my old rusty hardware with stainless if I can find it.

I like the matte black finish that I chose for my stuff.. I like how it looks very smooth and has a very low sheen to it.. it's not completely flat and dry looking but it's not that high gloss finish that EVERYTHING seems to be everywhere you look... my door handles were all scratched up and had little specks of rust on them ... the spring on the underside was very rusty and I was wondering how the powdercoat would affect a spring like that but it seems to be ok even though they are now covered with powder coating... there are bare spots where the handle was touching the mounting bracket part because of the spring holding it together... my driver's side handle is actually broken and I found two used handles pretty cheap and just decided to have them sandblasted and powder coated to see what they would look like.. I like it... I should have taken my rear door handle off and had it done too.. but what about the chrome locks? LOL...

My vision is to have mine be a matte OD green type color with matte black on everything else.. rims.. bumpers.. etc.. I've also thought about a silver/gray color for the body... The original paint was the toyota olive brown which I like even though it was glossy.. I wouldn't mind having the original color back on there but I don't know if I'll ever have the money to have the body work and paint done professionally anyway... it seems I usually end up spending my money just trying to keep it running...

I really like the look of the TLC ICON's subtle finishes and that is how I have always envisioned my FJ40 looking... I wanted mine to look like that OD green one before they ever came out with those ICON's ... I've had my FJ40 since 1998 ... when they came out with those I remember thinking ... "that is exactly how I want mine to look".. the only problem I have with those ICON's is that they don't have a Toyota drivetrain.. not that I could afford one of them anyway.. LOL

 

[edwards_rljr]

Parts had exposure. Very small tho. Anything that accepts a bolt is a different story. The coater should install a bolt and hang the part from the bolt. Plug any holes with a cork like substance too. At least that is what my guy did.

I am curious what he is charging you and what parts. IIRC the hook was moved when coating. Then baking

thank you, I don't know much about this process, but this stuff just seems like common sense to me... I asked him if he needed my old bolts to put in the threaded holes to keep the powder coat from getting down in there and he told me no, that he had stuff to plug the holes... then he didn't plug the holes and they now have powder coating down in them to some extent.. putting a bolt in there and hanging the part from that bolt would make PERFECT sense to me.. I don't care if the bolt has a bare spot on it where the hook or wire was .. I'm tossing it anyway...

and he charged me $212.00 to do my 37 parts... and they only got one coat with the exception of the few parts they knocked over and scratched up and had to redo...

 

[webelk6]

The reason I decided to have those other small parts powder coated was because they all had some rust on them.. those heater hose clamp cover things had a little.. not a lot.. but they were obviously just painted with black paint... the small bracket parts that hold the plastic air duct thing where pretty rusty even though they are inside the cab.. they looked like they had once been plated with the zinc chromate? or whatever it is ... I wanted to have the heater housing parts done so I just decided that I might as well have the various small parts powder coated while I was at it so that they would, hopefully, have a durable coating that would last for many years and that I would not have to worry about them rusting again and I THOUGHT that the powder coating process meant my stuff would be COMPLETELY coated and encapsulated in the powder coating and not have bare metal showing through in places ...

I thought about just painting those smaller parts with rattle can rustoleum or whatever but when I first talked to the guy about my stuff, he made it sound like the more parts I had to do, the better deal I would get on the price and when I considered the time and work and cost it would take me to clean up those other parts myself and then paint them with spray paint that most likely would not last , I just decided to get those done too.

Another issue for me is just a matter of personal taste... I don't like bright shiny chrome or gold or brassy colored stuff... I like brushed chrome sometimes... and brushed stainless steel... I like silvers and grays , just not glossy/shiny finishes (usually) ... I HATE gold or brassy colored finishes like the zinc chromate stuff... I HATE screws and nuts and bolts that are gold or brassy looking... so I would never have anything of mine replated in that stuff if I can help it... I try to replace my old rusty hardware with stainless if I can find it.

I like the matte black finish that I chose for my stuff.. I like how it looks very smooth and has a very low sheen to it.. it's not completely flat and dry looking but it's not that high gloss finish that EVERYTHING seems to be everywhere you look... my door handles were all scratched up and had little specks of rust on them ... the spring on the underside was very rusty and I was wondering how the powdercoat would affect a spring like that but it seems to be ok even though they are now covered with powder coating... there are bare spots where the handle was touching the mounting bracket part because of the spring holding it together... my driver's side handle is actually broken and I found two used handles pretty cheap and just decided to have them sandblasted and powder coated to see what they would look like.. I like it... I should have taken my rear door handle off and had it done too.. but what about the chrome locks? LOL...

My vision is to have mine be a matte OD green type color with matte black on everything else.. rims.. bumpers.. etc.. I've also thought about a silver/gray color for the body... The original paint was the toyota olive brown which I like even though it was glossy.. I wouldn't mind having the original color back on there but I don't know if I'll ever have the money to have the body work and paint done professionally anyway... it seems I usually end up spending my money just trying to keep it running...

I really like the look of the TLC ICON's subtle finishes and that is how I have always envisioned my FJ40 looking... I wanted mine to look like that OD green one before they ever came out with those ICON's ... I've had my FJ40 since 1998 ... when they came out with those I remember thinking ... "that is exactly how I want mine to look".. the only problem I have with those ICON's is that they don't have a Toyota drivetrain.. not that I could afford one of them anyway.. LOL

point taken. Kind of like the flat black hot rods in a sense.

thank you, I don't know much about this process, but this stuff just seems like common sense to me... I asked him if he needed my old bolts to put in the threaded holes to keep the powder coat from getting down in there and he told me no, that he had stuff to plug the holes... then he didn't plug the holes and they now have powder coating down in them to some extent.. putting a bolt in there and hanging the part from that bolt would make PERFECT sense to me.. I don't care if the bolt has a bare spot on it where the hook or wire was .. I'm tossing it anyway...

and he charged me $212.00 to do my 37 parts... and they only got one coat with the exception of the few parts they knocked over and scratched up and had to redo...

$212 is cheap for 37 parts. My guy used plugs where there were no threads. However he had a giant bucket of bolts he re used for all of his projects.

 

[Grape Ape]

I do powder work on the side.... im not a pro but you got a pretty fair price, it looks like he doesnt preheat the parts prior to coating which helps in the corners and what have you. What happens is the part is being sprayed with a charged particle and in a corner it can cause a (excuse the description i cant find the right word) static shield that doesnt allow the powder to settle there, it repels the powder, usually poor ground at that point.

what your guy needs to do is use any threaded hole to hang it from and you wont be left with the hanger marks. if that isnt possible i use really really thin copper wire (solid not strand) through a bolt hole and just hit it with paint to seal it.

if the parts were knocked over while warm it can scratch really really easily just like paint but if they were cooled it may just be a really thin coat of paint, flat is a little less durable as gloss but not a whole lot