RTH! - Highlander water pump

[ghbyram]

Got confirmation that the water pump on the wife's Highlander (2008 Limited 3.5 V6) is living on borrowed time. I notice a loud clatter under the hood while driving last night and thought it was the WP based on location of noise - did not see any coolant seepage. took it to the dealer this morning and they confirmed by removing surp belt and the WP shaft had a good amount of play in it.

Anyways ... i was prepared for a $1000+ quote ... and I got it 1033 to be exact which i suppose is better than the $1200+ I read about online. The price is labor driven and that labor is driven by the horrific location of this otherwise easy plug and play part. The service manual directs to pull the engine and that's how they quote it regardless of how they actually do it. I've seen posts various places suggesting it can be done DIY without pulling the engine but they lack the MUD style precision much less any real description of approach beyond accessing via the front PS wheel well.

Given how great MUD has been for my 80, I thought I'd ping this forum to see if anyone can nudge me in the right direction. Hoping to address this weekend while the wife is out of town and we don't need the car.

Any help appreciated.
Grady

Anyways, going to pick it up and assess some other options.

 

[Sam Stewart]

I'm sure it can be done without pulling the engine. The 3.5s are hard to work on because it's a fairly large engine mounted close to, well, pretty much everything. Do you know how many hours and what rate?

 

[Gumby]

Alldata says $172 for the pump and 4.3 hours labor. Should cost about $500 or so.

The engine has to come up but not out.

From the service manual:

(e) Jack up the engine slightly, and remove the 2 bolts and No. 1 front engine mounting bracket LH.

NOTICE:

Do not jack up the engine excessively.

HINT:

Lift the engine so that bolt A passes above the No. 1 cooler refrigerant suction pipe.

(f) Lower the engine, and remove the jack.

 

[ghbyram]

@Lowe - yeah that V6 is wedged in there sideways so the WP is up against the back side of the wheel well.

@Gumby - I was taking the word of others that the service manual said to pull the engine. Jack and drop doesn't sound too bad. I think I'll grab a 2 day subscription and read it over myself.

Dealer quoted me 183 for the pump and 50 for the toyo coolant. Rumor across the web has it dealers spec it as an 11 hr job but I did not inquire. If I want a new belt that will be another $47. I'll have to check maint records to see how old that belt is. Dealer does have an online 15% coupon for parts right now - wouldn't be as good as CruiserDan/Beno - but would help a little.

I got a better quote at $615 from a local/non-dealer shop down the street. They said 4.5 hrs. They actually said the Toyota WP would be $10 cheaper than what theyd typically buy. They can do it Monday which will work and that gives me some time to assess if I think I can get it done.

 

[Jacket]

What's the mileage on it? Should you go ahead and address the timing belt "while you're in there?"

 

[ghbyram]

@jacket - 77k ... I would definitely inspect. Inspection pops up on the 60k check and each 15k thereafter but never definitively says "replace it now or else". Given that, it would be a "while I'm there".

Per the FSM steps I'll also need a water inlet gasket and a water outlet O ring ... I expect both would be relatively cheap and readily available.

After reading through the FSM remove/install procedure (which is in fact jack & drop to get access), it generally doesn't look too bad except:
1. I don't have a floor jack but do have beefy bottle jacks, I assume that'd be OK for the engine lift.
2. I'm spoiled by working on the 80 in that it is so easy to lift and support by the axles for this sort of work. The HL, not so much. When I did the front brakes I didn't care for how the front was supported during work - and that was pretty easy/quick work.
3. Lots of SSTs spec'd for the removal/install of idlers, crank, etc. That's where I tend to get slowed down making many trips to O'Reilly trying to figure out what I can borrow from them. I can't really tell what is special about several of these of these SSTs. Some I know I can do without.
4. The crank pulley has to come off and go back on at 184 ft. lb - well above any of my torque wrenches or readily available loaners from O'Reilly etc which usually top out at 150 ft lb if I recall correctly.
5. There just isn't good online support for working on an HL to give me confidence working on this thing like there is on Mud for working on my 80. There's just nothing like Mud.

I'm tempted to go for it but my net cost to have this local shop do it is about $350-$400 at this point ... and that's assuming I don't have to buy any more tools. I'm thinking that may be the way to go. Wife and kids are out of town this weekend so I'd have time to focus on it ... but then again - I don't get a completely free weekend pass too often and I'm not sure I want to spend it wrenching.

 

[KLF]

FWIW...

I've done timing belts and WP on both my '04 and my brother's '06 Highlanders. Granted, this is a different engine (5MZ I think, 3.3L), so not sure how much this applies.

Getting the timing belt off is easy. Lots of stuff has to come out, but really just lay it out methodically, it's not too bad. The worst part was dealing with the damned PS pump, it's in a terrible location and the bolts are hard to reach. I had a really hard time getting the WP off mine, but it popped right out on my brother's. We pulled the studs first, I think that helped a lot.

I made a tool to hold the crank pulley, it's just a chunk of 1/8" steel about 2" wide and 16" long. I drilled a hole in the middle just big enough for my crank socket to go thru, then 2 holes on either side for a pair of M8 bolts, they thread into the pulley. I need to add a couple of support tubes for these bolts, I always bend the bolts and have to get new ones.

I shocked you're having this trouble at this age and mileage. I'm also surprised you had to replace the brakes already, our original pads lasted 110K miles. The only real "repair" I've had to do on ours in 125K is one headlight burned out.

 

[ghbyram]

Spent some time poking around under the hood and underneath to locate everything in the FSM and I know now what most of the SSTs are for. Basically you can't get a ratchet to most of these nuts/bolts because there isn't enough open depth in front of the fastener to get the ratchet plus socket in there - even putting the socket on first and finessing the ratchet on. And some are deep such that you can't get a regular wrench on there either. Some would require an extension to get the socket to bolt/nut. So these SSTs basically make the ratchet longer and with a slimmer profile. I can achieve this with these little adapters I got from sears that you put into the female part of the socket and then you can use a hand wrench on the adapter. Offset wrenches might work on some of these also. Neither of those do me a damn bit of good getting these things torqued back to spec though! And getting fasteners torqued back to spec with a torque wrench is a goal I'm usually pretty set on. This is the cooling system we're talking about here.

I'm not really worried about concerns 1 - 3 anymore. I think I can handle #4 too. #5 is what it is - this HL is a minivan in SUV clothing and its never going to have the cult following of an LC or Jeep - a cult of crazy OCD people that want to make their trucks live and perform forever.

 

[Sam Stewart]

@Lowe - yeah that V6 is wedged in there sideways so the WP is up against the back side of the wheel well.

@Gumby - I was taking the word of others that the service manual said to pull the engine. Jack and drop doesn't sound too bad. I think I'll grab a 2 day subscription and read it over myself.

Dealer quoted me 183 for the pump and 50 for the toyo coolant. Rumor across the web has it dealers spec it as an 11 hr job but I did not inquire. If I want a new belt that will be another $47. I'll have to check maint records to see how old that belt is. Dealer does have an online 15% coupon for parts right now - wouldn't be as good as CruiserDan/Beno - but would help a little.

I got a better quote at $615 from a local/non-dealer shop down the street. They said 4.5 hrs. They actually said the Toyota WP would be $10 cheaper than what theyd typically buy. They can do it Monday which will work and that gives me some time to assess if I think I can get it done.

OR, you can buy the pump and 2 gallons of coolant from me for $160.13 shipped.

 

[ghbyram]

@KLF - Thanks for the encouragement. Yeah I'm a bit irritated this thing has gone out at 77k AND screwed up my kitchen pass weekend. But if it was going to happen the timing couldn't have been better in this case. Since I had today off anyways I've been able to research and with the family out of town I haven't had my wife bitching at me to make a quick decision. I haven't surveyed around on the brakes but it was just the front pads. Rotors still have a lot of life left. It was relatively painless cost and timewise and provided good piece of mind just before a 2000 road trip.

I think I'm going to do this job. The PS pump is not a factor for me so I guess I have that going for me. I hope I can knock it out tonight. Going to check on a few tools and pick up the parts I need and this will hopefully just tie me up for tonight and I'll have the rest of my weekend to be lazy and maybe spend some of the money I saved on bullets and range fees.

 

[ghbyram]

OR, you can buy the pump and 2 gallons of coolant from me for $160.13 shipped.

I really wish you hadn't said that. I knew I could get a better deal from many MUD vendors but this absolutely positively has to be done either this weekend by me or on Monday by a shop before the family gets back in town.

... now if you tell me that's the price shipped Overnight Saturday delivery, then we're in business.

 

[Sam Stewart]

I really wish you hadn't said that. I knew I could get a better deal from many MUD vendors but this absolutely positively has to be done either this weekend by me or on Monday by a shop before the family gets back in town.

... now if you tell me that's the price shipped Overnight Saturday delivery, then we're in business.

As bad as UPS is getting it would probably cost double that for overnight, especially for Saturday delivery.

There's always next time tho!

 

[ghbyram]

... the plot thickens

the WP took me a lot longer than expected. Main issues were:
1. not familiar with the car - first time I've really gotten under the hood of it
2. its freaking tight in there
3. I spend a lot of time looking for tools that are right in front of me.

So I think I'm done with the WP ... EXCEPT ... the damn thing (1) won't start and the display is telling me there is a (2) Brake issue, (3) an ABS issue and (4)a SRSS system issue. I'm just going to take a big ol' guess this has something to do with me accidentally shorting the alternator wire against the No.1 oil piple. Basically a tool slipped out of my hand and I heard a pop. When it happened I didn't fret too much - just thought to myself "well, I guess I'll be changing out some fuses too". Thing is ... none of the fuses in the main box are blown. I may really be in over my head now. I feel like all the money I saved was blown by the drop of a wrench.

Oh well, can't start it to take it to get the codes read so guess I need to figure out if I can do the paperclip code jumper thing on this thing too.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[ghbyram]

OK ... can't do the paper clip thing to get codes but not sure it matters.

Anyways - most everything is not working. Looking at the wireing diagram, it seems that it is the Alternator fuse which is in a block with other stuff. Based on a look at the wiring diagram, it seems that everthing downstream of the Alt fuse is not working, while everything that is not on that same circuit, is working. Guess I'll be at the parts counter bright and early tomorrow morning.

That would explain just about everything but the brake warning (usually due to low fluid - but that ain't the case). Assuming it is a byproduct of all this Alternator fuse stuff.

 

[KLF]

Is there a fusible link on the battery?

 

[ghbyram]

Yes, there is and that fuse is blown. The fuse is labeled as 140A and is part of one long unit that also includes EPS (electric power steering) and ST (starting system). This particular fuse is screwed to the wires inside the fuse box. I have managed to gain access to the screws but they are f'n tight. I can't budge them and I don't want to strip the screws as then I'll really be f'd.

This whole thing makes me want to puke. I can't believe I didn't disconnect the battery when I started. Arggh!!!

 

[fsusteve]

I feel for you, good luck with it.

 

[Sam Stewart]

Yes, there is and that fuse is blown. The fuse is labeled as 140A and is part of one long unit that also includes EPS (electric power steering) and ST (starting system). This particular fuse is screwed to the wires inside the fuse box. I have managed to gain access to the screws but they are f'n tight. I can't budge them and I don't want to strip the screws as then I'll really be f'd.

This whole thing makes me want to puke. I can't believe I didn't disconnect the battery when I started. Arggh!!!

The main fuse is blown I'm sure. If you ever short the battery or jump it backwards it will blow. The fuse is bolted in to the fuse block so you'll have to loosen the block and take the cover off the bottom. You need to replce the 140A first and then check the others. I'm sure there are more blown.

On a side note, step 1 no matter what you are doing should be disconnect the battery!!!

Edit: When that 140A blow it will light up the dash like a Christmas tree. Def need to replace that first.