Resolved: suspension stuff - was:Anyone eager to sell suspension?

[CharlieS]

Over the last couple of weeks, I've realized my stock suspension is overloaded and I need to upgrade it.

I've reached out to several vendors to try to buy a suspension that fits my needs, and nobody seems especially eager to help.

For me a $1000 to $3000 purchase is a pretty big deal, and I'd like someone to be eager to help me and consider my unique situation before I'm willing to plunk down that kind of money.

Is there anyone out there you recommend as eager to help?

In alll fairness, Jason from Trail Tailor was incredibly responsive, but his offering is on backorder, so isn't an immediately available option.

Vendors like Dirty Motorsports are on a several day backlog, and replies I've received are boilerplate (they clearly didn't read my details). And they are a premium option...

Another, whose opinion I respect a great deal, tell me my situation is "experimental". Personally, I can't afford a $1100 on an experiment. I need solid advice.

Some well regarded shops aren't responding to voicemails and emails within 24 hours.

Is there anyone out there that is eager to help and make a sale?

 

[DPA200]

Jason from Trail Tailor would have been my suggestion. He was incredibly helpful when i got my Tough Dog, and i had it within a few days. Did you try Slee or Cruiser Outfitters for OME?

 

[afgman786]

Cruiser Outfitters was good to me. Definitely answered the questions I had and talked thru my thought process with me to know what I was getting into before placing the order. Took their advice on a couple points that seemed a bit against my logic, but so far I'm glad I did.

 

[SQRRRL]

Jason from Trail Tailor would have been my suggestion. He was incredibly helpful when i got my Tough Dog, and i had it within a few days. Did you try Slee or Cruiser Outfitters for OME?

Jason is your best bet. He can fit your budget .Helped me out. I’m happy.

 

[empty80]

If you want to get it right the first time, I’d be patient and work with Jason at Trail Tailor, Slee Off-road, Cruiser Outfitters or Ben at Filthy Motorsports. That’s not a comprehensive list, but these are the vendors that will HELP you, not just sell you a product.

 

[CharlieS]

Thanks, I've been looking in the right places then. That's the list of shops I've reached out to through IM, phone and email. Plus Iron Pig Offroad for Icon. Maybe I just need to be more patient.

You hit the nail in the head - I need advice, not just a sale. If it was just buying the parts, I could go many places.

Since I do not have big bumpers and a winch, but do have other armor and weights, I don't fit into the standard setups. And I want as little lift as possible, so that puts me in another oddball category.

 

[nwfl4runner]

What are you looking for? That will give folks a better idea of who to recommend. What information do you have for them to work with? i.e., do you have the 4 corner weight of the rig as an example?

 

[lasalsa]

Try Ironman 4X4. You'll be at less than $1K with the special they have going on. Great Customer Service and support. Live Chat with them online too. I bought their 2 inch Performance Lift and am totally happy!

 

[cboyd]

it would help if you would mention where you are... some local shops might be able to help you, while many shops are swamped or running skeleton crews during the response to COVID.

For example, I know some shops are still doing work and shipping parts, but they are running new rules about how to get scheduled, etc.

 

[CharlieS]

it would help if you would mention where you are... some local shops might be able to help you, while many shops are swamped or running skeleton crews during the response to COVID.

For example, I know some shops are still doing work and shipping parts, but they are running new rules about how to get scheduled, etc.

CBoyd,

Good points. Especially the response to Covid. I hadn't considered that. I figured internet based parts businesses would be less impacted, but that was probably a bad assumption.

I would gladly support a local business, but I am in the Burlington, Vermont area, and we don't have anyone in the area that knows Land Cruisers. There are some good Rover shops, but the Land Cruiser is not popular out here. My questions are very specific to my setup/weights on my rig.

I can't spend $1100-$3000 without having a pretty good sense that I'm buying the right thing. For some people that may be a trivial expense, but for me, it is a big ticket item. I don't want to spend twice - buying an OME setup, for example, only to realize I should have spent the extra and bought an Icon/BP-51/King setup.

I apologize if I am being negative. I think people are trying to help, it just hasn't gotten me to a place where I am ready to pay.

For example, I got a great reply from Christo with some recommendations, but when I called the shop to get a quote and order, the person I spoke with gave me conflicting information, and said that my setup is not typical, so it would be "experimental". I can't spend $1100 on an experiment. I was ready to buy on that call, if he'd confirmed Christo's recommendation, but instead, the result was me going back into shopping mode.

For me the high end is the King 2.5 - and other than the price tag, they sound perfect. But even there, you need to pick a spring rate for the front coilovers. The 600 lb standard/international rate is supposedly too low for US cruisers, 650 or 700 is targeted at loaded with a bumper, some people go to 800 with a bumper and a winch. I don't have a bumper or a winch, but I have two heavy AMG batteries, skids and other weight (light bars, pod lights, BCDC, recovery points) that make my front end very heavy. I am very nose heavy. Could I guess and pick up the 650, try it out and later buy a different spring if it is wrong? Sure, I could, but for that kind of money, I'd like to get an expert opinion before guessing.

 

[cboyd]

you should talk to Mainline Overland - talk to Pete down in their Pennsylvania head-office (he's an expert on various vehicles), but they have a small shop in Bow, NH (other end of I-89 from you) which they can ship parts up to, or even do installs. I've have had my land cruiser worked on a number of times there. they did the lift on my 200 and have done a lot of work on my 100.

They sell OME, Dobinsons, Icon, their own brand of Dobinsons (tweaked for Tacoma)

John runs the shop in NH and is knowledgable across LR, LC and a bunch of other stuff.

 

[sleeoffroad]

I can't spend $1100-$3000 without having a pretty good sense that I'm buying the right thing. For some people that may be a trivial expense, but for me, it is a big ticket item. I don't want to spend twice - buying an OME setup, for example, only to realize I should have spent the extra and bought an Icon/BP-51/King setup.

I apologize if I am being negative. I think people are trying to help, it just hasn't gotten me to a place where I am ready to pay.

The issue with suspension recommendations is that are rarely a direct answer that covers all the bases. Also there are variables in how trucks are loaded.

For example, I got a great reply from Christo with some recommendations, but when I called the shop to get a quote and order, the person I spoke with gave me conflicting information, and said that my setup is not typical, so it would be "experimental". I can't spend $1100 on an experiment. I was ready to buy on that call, if he'd confirmed Christo's recommendation, but instead, the result was me going back into shopping mode.

The recommendations that I laid our was based on the info you gave in your email. Not sure if all the info was translated to the other person you spoke to on the phone call. We do have three people answering phones, so from time to time you might get different answers, if all the same pre-sales info is not supplied.

I would be interested in what the suggestions is you got from the person that answered, and how it differed to what I provided. What is the conflicting information?

For me the high end is the King 2.5 - and other than the price tag, they sound perfect. But even there, you need to pick a spring rate for the front coilovers. The 600 lb standard/international rate is supposedly too low for US cruisers, 650 or 700 is targeted at loaded with a bumper, some people go to 800 with a bumper and a winch. I don't have a bumper or a winch, but I have two heavy AMG batteries, skids and other weight (light bars, pod lights, BCDC, recovery points) that make my front end very heavy. I am very nose heavy. Could I guess and pick up the 650, try it out and later buy a different spring if it is wrong? Sure, I could, but for that kind of money, I'd like to get an expert opinion before guessing.

What is your comment about the truck being nose heavy based on? The truck normally has a battery, so you only added one. None of the other items are especially heavy.

Your requirements were a low lift, with enough spring rate to support the weight and not go high enough that UCA's are needed. I recommended the springs for that. Unfortunately based on your requirements there are not a lot of spring choices so you will end up with a resulting lift height that might not be exactly what you want. But that is the nature of the game. Maybe that is why my sales staff did not want to get pinned down on exact outcome.

Having adjust ability in terms of coil overs like the BP51 obviously makes it easier to get to an exact lift number, but at a cost.

The rear does not offer adjust ability so you get what you get, but you have more spring choices.

In summary we get a lot of people contact us and want assurances on exact heights for lifts, but it is simply not that easy to give those assurances. We could but then we would not be honest in our sales info.

I am a little perplexed on the post though, since we had a discussion on this via email and a phone call. Why not reach out again and talk to me to get clarification. The post comes across as if vendors are not interested in selling the suspension.

 

[stevopike]

 

[nwfl4runner]

For me the high end is the King 2.5 - and other than the price tag, they sound perfect. But even there, you need to pick a spring rate for the front coilovers. The 600 lb standard/international rate is supposedly too low for US cruisers, 650 or 700 is targeted at loaded with a bumper, some people go to 800 with a bumper and a winch. I don't have a bumper or a winch, but I have two heavy AMG batteries, skids and other weight (light bars, pod lights, BCDC, recovery points) that make my front end very heavy. I am very nose heavy. Could I guess and pick up the 650, try it out and later buy a different spring if it is wrong? Sure, I could, but for that kind of money, I'd like to get an expert opinion before guessing.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are asking a lot of questions that require you to have a lot of information that you don't have.

Step 1 - go get your vehicle weighed. 4 corner weight, scale under each wheel, with whatever you are intending to haul/carry/build for. In other words, if you want a fridge and drawers and a rear bumper, find a way to put that much weight in the back. No it won't be the same because of where it hangs, which factors into the actual weight being placed on the suspension, but it'll be helpful. Until you know what each corner is actually handling, you will be guessing at spring rates. Then find out what your wheels/tires weigh, because that matters. Once you have your weight per corner, then you can start talking to folks about spring rates and valving.

Step 2 - what are you WANTING in your suspension? Do you want it firm, do you want it soft, do you want it to carry a lot of weight? That will impact things. In another thread I think you were talking about IBPs in Kings? Well, how would you want the bypass setup? Like a bump stop at the top? Why? Are you planning to jump it so you need a hydraulic bump? Or, so you can go fast and still have it soft in the bottom for smaller, but a little firmer at the top for big hits? Or, are you looking to go slow, in which case is that where you really need to spend your money? Valving can make a big difference as well, as opposed to off the shelf buys, but there again, valving depends on weight and driver choices.

If it gives you any peace of mind, I have about $8,000 in just my current coilovers/bypasses/bumps on my 4Runner, and I still go through different spring rates/valving/bypass setups to get things to ride better, and none of it happens quickly. None of it was off the shelf. All of it required discussions about driving style, weight (bumpers, cage, sliders), motion ratio (long travel arms, etc). Shops will only be able to tell you so much until you actually have concrete information to provide to them. And then again, if you want something totally out of the ordinary, it could STILL be unknown.

So, either put in that work to get that information, or buy stock. Otherwise you'll just be shooting a bullet and then placing the target. Not great.

 

[CharlieS]

Thanks everyone. I had someone help me (a mud member) and I know what I'm going to do. For whatever it is worth, I provided this person the same exact information I've shared with others, and he was able to give me two solid recommendations with good rationale for each. I am extremely appreciative of his help, and the information you have all shared. Thanks again.

 

[sleeoffroad]

I (and I am sure others) would be really interested to know what you decided on for the suspension based on your requirements. I am asking in an effort to see what we might have done wrong, and also what the other suggestions would be to compare to what we recommended.

 

[CharlieS]

Christo, I wasn't trying to point fingers, and I apologize if it came across that way. I wanted to give a concrete example of how vendors gave conflicting information which made it hard to make a buying decision. You and your entire team have been an asset to the community for as long as I can remember, and you were the first company I reached out to.

To your point, there are a lot of variables, I may not have given enough information, and the final outcome may be hard to predict (or stand behind). I get it, that makes sense. I just can't spend cubic dollars on experimenting.

For cost reasons, I very much would have liked to get an OME setup, and that was my intention. After some feedback, I didn't get warm fuzzies about being able to land on a low lift that would have a stance/rake that worked for me, given my loads. That pushed me into considering a height adjustable front that I could fine tune (which did bad things to my budget).

I've said it over and over, but I don't want to have to buy twice. I've made that mistake over and over in attempt to save a buck, and try to avoid it.

I ordered 2.5 Kings with 650lb front springs, and OME 2721 rears.

The only thing it didn't do is meet my price point, but I'm hoping the long term benefit of serviceability makes up for the short term pain.

Whether or not this is the best choice remains to be seen. Only time will tell if it helps me achieve my goals.

I am sincerely thankful for all of the helpful guidance people have provided.

 

[bloc]

Christo, I wasn't trying to point fingers, and I apologize if it came across that way. I wanted to give a concrete example of how vendors gave conflicting information which made it hard to make a buying decision. You and your entire team have been an asset to the community for as long as I can remember, and you were the first company I reached out to.

To your point, there are a lot of variables, I may not have given enough information, and the final outcome may be hard to predict (or stand behind). I get it, that makes sense. I just can't spend cubic dollars on experimenting.

For cost reasons, I very much would have liked to get an OME setup, and that was my intention. After some feedback, I didn't get warm fuzzies about being able to land on a low lift that would have a stance/rake that worked for me, given my loads. That pushed me into considering a height adjustable front that I could fine tune (which did bad things to my budget).

I've said it over and over, but I don't want to have to buy twice. I've made that mistake over and over in attempt to save a buck, and try to avoid it.

I ordered 2.5 Kings with 650lb front springs, and OME 2721 rears.

The only thing it didn't do is meet my price point, but I'm hoping the long term benefit of serviceability makes up for the short term pain.

Whether or not this is the best choice remains to be seen. Only time will tell if it helps me achieve my goals.

I am sincerely thankful for all of the helpful guidance people have provided.

PLEASE post some feedback on this setup and take good before/after height measurements. Your goals are a lot like mine (low lift, stock UCAs) and 2.5s have been on the radar for some time.

Did you add any features like compression adjusters?

 

[CharlieS]

Absolutely. I'll start a new thread once I get them installed. I'll take lots of before measurements, see if I can find a way to get accurate weights for my rig, etc. At least we'll have one more data point.

I didn't add compression adjusters. The shocks and springs blew my budget way out already, so this add-on was too expensive. If money were not a concern, I would have though.

Edit: In case anyone searches this thread for Kings info. I had a good conversation with Ben from Filthy Motorsports yesterday. He recommended 600 lb springs for my setup. Kings changed from 14" to 16" springs about a year ago, and the 650 lb recommendation was for the prior 14" springs. He said that with my front weights, the 600 lb should be good. The conversation with Ben getting his expert advice specific to my setup was what I have been hoping for. I'm really feeling good about working with him.