Recommended batteries for overland travel?

[DillonOnTheCoast]

So I got the vehicle back from a fiasco of an alternator rebuild and it's worse than ever. Using voltage as an indicator of how well it's charging, things don't look good. They say the alternator tests fine on the bench so I turned to the batteries.

A load test on the blue top showed it's health as borderline but passing and the yellow top was ok.

I want to see a test that proves that battery is no good before I throw money at it but I guess that's not in the plan.

I'm tempted to put one of these in there (assuming it fits) but if my problem persists I'm going to be somewhat annoyed:

Sears Diehard Platinum Group 31

I'm talking myself into it on the basis that 100AH for the Diehard is a worthwhile upgrade from the 55AH in the Optima.

No overlanding just driving and camping.

That sounds like overlanding - as opposed to buses & hostels or airplanes and hotels or driving and motels.

 

[DomSmith]

Grab a buddies battery (or 2) that fit, and see what kind of issues you still have. Nothing like dropping some dough on new batteries only to find you now have 2 good batteries on the shelf.

 

[Dell]

Optima's have been reliable for me...

I currently run duals...
34R (reverse terminal) Red Top (ign)
34/78 Yellow Top (aux)

Bought the 34R new 6 years back
also bought the 34/78 YT used, 4 years back

^ and it had already served two years on
an industrial duty emergency vehicle.

The YT is mounted on it's side...

^ has never leaked or vented... ever

The RTR does not like being stationary for long periods...

^ tho' it'll maintain it's peak charge if driven daily.

The YT on the other hand... hardly depreciates it's charge when sitting idle for extended periods.

^ the RTR will be replaced with a YT...
when that eventually eats dust.

Both my YT and RTR exceed the mfg's ratings when load tested.

The YT serves as winch duty, lights and nearly all accessories.
And it's held up to plenty of abuse.

Neither of these have let me down... ever
Tho' I'm smart enough to realize nothing is forever
Sooo... I have AAA for triple back up

I'm using a Sure Power to isolate the duals
and the Alt. is still oem.

^ tho' I do have an rewound 150 HO alt. waiting to be installed
along with a Cole/Hersey 200 amp isolator to back it up.
~Have just been too lazy to make the swap~ :whoops:

I peak charge both occasionally to keep them fit.

I do not use the side terminals for anything but lite loads.
The winch and heavy loads are at the primary terminals (Aux)

* An important fact about the Blue Tops...

There are two different BT's...
One has a dark gray casing and the other has a light gray casing
The later is the true marine battery.
The dark gray cased BT is simply a starter battery.
Important to note... if yer thinking of buying one of these.

...just my experience with 'dem

 

[Climbingnut]

I used to run Optima's until the company was sold. Now I run the Sears Diehard Platinum in my Taco. Love that battery. Just had it tested when doing an oil change for kicks and it was pushing over 1000 CCA after nearly 2 years. I think it's a great battery and will put one in every vehicle I buy.

 

[RiverRatMatt]

I'm going to be thinking about a new battery sometime soon. Odyssey's website gives a lot of technical specs regarding their various battery types but I don't know how to interpret that into what would work best for my 2010 Tacoma.

Any suggestions?

 

[Climbingnut]

If you're interested in an odyssey battery, go get a sears diehard platinum. It's the same battery for a lot less money. I've had one in my Tacoma for 2 years and driven it all over the USA in all weather conditions. Works like a champ.

 

[RiverRatMatt]

I won't remember a difference of a $200 a few years from now, but I will remember why I went with the best I can get.

 

[VidereStudios]

I have a single Die Hard Platinum PM-1 and last spring down in Baja it was good for running my ARB fridge at 32 degrees for 3 days at a time without starting the cruiser.

Great batteries that have been flawless on the worst roads in Baja.

That is great news...thanks for that input. I will be taking the 100 down through Baja and Mexico and currently have the PM-1. I plan on adding a second one before I head down. Glad to know they last on those roads!

So I got the vehicle back from a fiasco of an alternator rebuild and it's worse than ever. Using voltage as an indicator of how well it's charging, things don't look good. They say the alternator tests fine on the bench so I turned to the batteries.

A load test on the blue top showed it's health as borderline but passing and the yellow top was ok.

I want to see a test that proves that battery is no good before I throw money at it but I guess that's not in the plan.

I'm tempted to put one of these in there (assuming it fits) but if my problem persists I'm going to be somewhat annoyed:

Sears Diehard Platinum Group 31

I'm talking myself into it on the basis that 100AH for the Diehard is a worthwhile upgrade from the 55AH in the Optima.


That sounds like overlanding - as opposed to buses & hostels or airplanes and hotels or driving and motels.

I think you will be completely satisfied with the PM-1. It has been a great battery for me so far (going on three years). I don't think you can go wrong with either Deka, Odyssey, or the Diehard Platinums. Of course, the pricing on the Sears batteries is the icing on the cake.

 

[DillonOnTheCoast]

I had to do a lot of reading to decide what to do here. There are a lot more considerations than I expected.

Aside from price, I don't see much reason for wet cells in automotive use so this is all based on AGM batteries.

You have to consider your intended use, type of isolator and charging system.

Intended Use
To make best use of the capabilities of various types of batteries, you should go with one cranking and one deep cycle battery. Both would be the largest you can physically fit in your battery tray. One would be a cranking battery with a high CCA and the other would be a deep-cycle battery with no rating for CCA. The cranking battery would have a high discharge rate to support your starter while the deep-cycle would have large plates that are better for deep discharge / charge cycles.

Group 31 size AGM deep cycle batteries are often used in big power supplies (UPS, etc) and in competition car stereos. For this purpose, they are better and cheaper than the hybrid automotive batteries sold by Odyssey, Optima, etc.

Type of Isolator
Your isolator may be wired such that your starter can draw from the auxiliary battery if the main battery is low. This means that your secondary battery might be tasked with cranking. In that case, you would use a hybrid cranking / deep cycle battery on the auxiliary side.

This gives you the advantage of additional capacity should you need it to start the engine but at the downside of using a hybrid battery rather than a true deep cycle battery.

A hybrid can handle fewer charge/discharge cycles than a deep cycle battery. This makes having a good charging solution important.

Charging System
Alternators are pretty bad at charging batteries. They are dumb devices and as a result, don't charge AGM batteries completely, even under ideal circumstances.

If you go with completely isolated batteries (one for the vehicle, one for the house), you might choose to have a smart charger draw from the vehicle battery/alternator to charge the house battery for you. Then you can have a true deep cycle.

If you have a hybrid, it would behoove you to look at a solar charger. Hybrids can only handle around 300-400 deep discharges. Since the alternator is a poor charger (and is likely not running while you're discharging the battery), it makes sense to harness the sun when it's available and only rely on batteries when it's not.

100 watts of solar power and a decent charge controller will keep the house battery charged even while running a small fridge. By avoiding deep discharges, the hybrid battery lasts a lot longer.

Fuses
Most people don't fuse their automotive batteries but I think we could learn a lot from marine systems.

WIRE

I'm planning to add 250amp ANL fuses on my 00 awt battery cables & starter.

In the End
Since I'm using an isolator that allows the starter / glow system to draw from the aux battery (parallel batteries) I opted to stay with a hybrid deep cycle AGM battery. I am, however, upgrading from the Optima to a Sears Diehard Platinum PM-1. I'd wait for the Optima to fail but who knows when that will happen, so I'm upgrading pre-emptively. Not because I'm concerned about reliability but because I want the extra 45AH for a trip.

To keep the batteries charged, I have 100 watts (two panels in parallel) with a 10amp controller permanently mounted on my roof (TBD). This should allow me to run my aux load indefinitely, without starting the engine, provided I get enough sun.

 

[Rubiconcruiser]

Your Optima blue top is made specifically to RUN DOWN, that was the original design, I use Optima Yellow and red top for my rigs, very reliable as long as the heat is kept off them in the engine compartment, for some reason they dont like it. Ive wasted two and both were heat issue related.Installed Gen Right hood louvres over top and it seems to help. Good luck in your search for the perfect battery.

 

[warpdriv]

I ditched my red top and based on recommendations, went and bought one of these, Platinum Automotive Battery - Group Size 34 (Price with Exchange)- DieHard-Automotive-Batteries-Car Batteries

 

[DillonOnTheCoast]

Your Optima blue top is made specifically to RUN DOWN, that was the original design

Both the blue & yellow tops that I have now are hybrid deep cycle batteries, meaning they are a compromise between thin-plate high CCA cranking batteries and thick-plated deep discharge batteries (over-simplified but I believe accurate). The posts are different but not too much else for my purpose.

There are also non-hybrid blue top batteries out there so keep that in mind.

Both of those hybrid batteries should be good for a few hundred discharge cycles.

 

[1tontoy]

Best batteries are whatever you can get...whereever you are.

 

[pawzitiv]

I believe batteries that suit our overlanding/expedition vehicles wouldn't differ much from what offshore cruising sailors demand from their batteries (starting as well as high amp draw house loads; can be used in any position).

AGM batteries have largely replaced wet-cells amongst the cruising sailing fraternity ( I was once a card-carrying member) and because of their versatility I figured my 5th Gen 4Runner would do well with a pair of AGM batteries. I couldn't get the cheaper Diehard Platinums here in Canada so plonked down for a pair of Odysseys; A GRP 34 main and a GRP 25 auxiliary and used an ABR-Sidewinder kit to hook it all up. I'm currently testing to see if I need to install an alternator boost diode to up the alternator output 0.5 volts with a hot engine. AGM batteries like high charge rates.

http://www.intveldimages.com/photos/i-kmczsNv/0/L/i-kmczsNv-L.jpg


http://www.intveldimages.com/photos/i-XXgqgkF/0/L/i-XXgqgkF-L.jpg

 

[warpdriv]

AGM batteries like high charge rates.

Others have talked about this. What does this mean in respect to alt output and how does one test their alt to see what it is generating? Tks.

 

[DillonOnTheCoast]

voltmeter on the "b" terminal of your alternator or taken at the batteries while the engine is at high idle ... but personally I'm skeptical of the claim that AGM batteries require high charging voltage.

maybe it was once true but I haven't find any hard evidence to back it up.

 

[pawzitiv]

As I understand it, charging AGM batteries at a high rate isn't a must; AGMs are just able to accept higher charge/discharge rates than wet-cell batteries.

Alternator voltage typically drops as its temperature increases so increasing alternator output voltage will just bring an AGM battery back up to 80% of charge capacity a bit faster which may make a difference right after you've flattened a battery right after a lengthy winching operation. AGM battery manufacturers usually specify a charging voltage around 14.2 - 14.4v at 20 degrees C and a hot alternator can barely put out 13.7v at that temperature.

 

[Bogo]

Something to think about. How often will you really use your deep cycle battery. Are you a dedicated weekend warrior going out every weekend, full timer, or maybe monthly?

two cycles a weekend, 52 weeks a year is 2.8 years for a cheap 300 cycle battery.

What, you only go out 10 times a year? Make that 15 years of cycle life before 300 cycles is reached which is well beyond the aging lifetime of most battery makes.

My opinion is get a pair of good combined starting/deep cycle batteries like those made for use in diesel tractors, or RV use. The main key being get a rugged battery so it can handle the physical abuse of off road use. Deka Intimidator is a good AGM option. If you don't want to spend the $$$ on an AGM, I'm not sure who makes a rugged flooded deep cycle battery. At this point I'd get a pair of John Deere group 31 tractor starting batteries. I see 8 to 10 years use in tractors. Then they serve another 10+ on fence lines.

Most batteries are killed by over discharge or other maintenance failures. Get a quality battery tender type charger that you can and DO plug in, or a solar panel and high quality charge controller. Use it to keep the batteries charged during extended idle periods. If the battery is a flooded type, check the water level every 6 months, or more often. Only refill/top off with deionized distilled water. Many clothes irons require that spec of water so most any grocery store has it. On solar charge controllers, get a true MPPT type as they will not send a to high of voltage to the battery. Morningstar’s SunSaver MPPT is about as low cost as you want to go with one. As for plug in battery tenders? I don't know as I haven't looked at them lately. I do have a bunch of Schumacher SE-1-12S Fully Automatic Onboard Battery Chargers which output 1.5 Amps. I mainly use them to recharge flooded type batteries between uses on electric fencers. I also use them to keep auto and tractor batteries recharged for extended idle times.

 

[Bogo]

and a hot alternator can barely put out 13.7v at that temperature.

13.7 V is close to a typical high float charge voltage for high output batteries. Are you sure the alternator hasn't just dropped into a pseudo-float mode as it sees the battery as nearly fully charged? Note: Typical long term float charge voltages are in the 13 to 13.3 volt range. At the float charge voltage batteries will slowly recharge up to full capacity.

PS: The last 5% to 10% of the recharge takes forever, and is also where most of the battery plate damage occurs. Recharging it slowly is preferable for long life.

 

[pawzitiv]

13.7 V is close to a typical high float charge voltage for high output batteries. Are you sure the alternator hasn't just dropped into a pseudo-float mode as it sees the battery as nearly fully charged? Note: Typical long term float charge voltages are in the 13 to 13.3 volt range. At the float charge voltage batteries will slowly recharge up to full capacity.

PS: The last 5% to 10% of the recharge takes forever, and is also where most of the battery plate damage occurs. Recharging it slowly is preferable for long life.

I agree with all you say about float charge voltage .. years ago I used a StatPower Truecharge on my crusing saillboat deep cycle battery bank. That charger had selectable output voltage and amperage for wet-cell and AGM batteries for all 3 phases of charging (bulk/absorption/float). The AGM voltage/amperage settings were noticeably higher than those for wet-cells.

The thing is that most of us need dual purpose batteries rather than dedicated deep cycle batteries and I haven't found a vehicle yet where the alternator and voltage regulator work in unison like a smart charger sensing that the battery needs float charging.

Bear in mind I'm no sparky; maybe I've got this all wrong but Aussie Toyota owners seem to favour using alternator boost diodes to get an extra 0.5v of alternator output.