Rearch or Alcan

[mep1811]

My 1985 FJ 60 with OME HD springs are sagging at all four corners. When I first got the OME springs they could not hold up my FJ 60 and I had them re arched and additional leaves added at the local spring shop.

Now I am sagging and want to get back up level all around. I can go back to the spring shop or go with Alcans.

I have Stout bumpers front and rear as well as a 40 gallon fuel tank. When I go camping I pull a M 416 trailer and also load up the 60.

I know the re arch should be cheaper but will the Alcan hold up better especially than the POS OME waste of money ?

Thanks for your input. Mike

 

[Moody]

alcans.

 

[alpendubber]

Your springs are sagged out because you carry too much s*** with you. Go team WalMart.....ha ha ha

Although.. the shots with the rear in the dirt maybe a full 40gal tank?

 

[ranger]

If you rearch again, they will sag again.
I was never a fan of rearched springs, of the people I know that had springs rearched it wasn't long before they were back the way they were. I would put the coin out and get quality springs that will last a long time. Alcans are nice because they make them specifically for your vehicle.

 

[esh]

Alcan over a re-arch.

Just a note, 4x4Labs' HJ61 with ARB front, 4x4Labs rear bumpers, a very large aux tank, and rear storage box has a heavy OME setup with 2 or 3 extra HD OME leafs per pack. This truck has been used in some of the worst environments throughout the Middle East and Africa. It has been through the Sahara, and climbed Hell's Gate. You can imagine what it has had to carry in equipment and supplies. So don't expect to keep your arch with all that extra weight and only a heavy setup. It won't last as you've found.

OMEs are not POS springs nor a waste of money. They are part of an excellent system used throughout the world in some pretty rough conditions. You simply need to scale your suspension to handle the weight you carry and not expect more from a suspension than it was designed for. Give them or any reputable OME dealer a call and ask them what they recommend for the weight you're carrying.

 

[mep1811]

Yes I am thinking I will have to bight the bullet and go with the Alcans. Wish I had done so in the beginning. Gas and water weigh a lot.

 

[mep1811]

When I contacted OME after I first installed their HD springs with an extra leaf and told them how the set up sucked they were quick to replace the springs with a set that sagged just as much. They then said that my truck weighed too much. I asked about their ads about equipping mining vehicles and they said that i would have to buy new springs. When I had the OME redone I had then re arched to give a 4 inch life and had two addtional leaves added. hat has lasted for 8 years.

 

[nuclearlemon]

rearching is a very temporary solution and can be painful to the kidneys. i like my alcans, but keep in mind that they are a custom spring. you'll need to hit a scale before you order and weigh complete vehicle and front and rear ends. weigh them with everything you normally carry and a full tank of gas and if you load up to go wheeling, tell them how much extra weight you carry then.

 

[alpendubber]

There is a fine line between wheeling and trail rig......OME setups are for adventure/ expedition not rock crawling. When fully laden.


Just my .02

 

[esh]

8 years!!!

Man I wouldn't expect 4 out of a truck used to explore and carry heavy loads.

 

[fj40forlife]

alcans.

 

[toyman317]

Has anyone tried those new Orbit-Eye Alcans? There was a write-up on those in the recent 4WD Toyota Owner mag. Look pretty cool. Might have just get me some of those.

 

[devo]

If you go Alcan be very careful when you talk to Tom about the specifics of the springs and what your use will be.
I've run Alcans for the last 5 years and have sent the springs back twice due to premature sagging. Alcan makes a great spring that rides very nice on the road and trail but seem to be oriented towards trail/crawling and articulation. The springs seem to fail when used for heavy loads when driven over rough terrain mile after mile like you see in expedition use.
Case in point. A 60 showed up at the Alaskan Cruiser Trek this year on new Alcans, 4inch lift, Bilstiens and 35. Looked great and the owner was proud. Heavily loaded for our journey into the bush. By the end of the 3rd day it rubbed bad in the rear wheel wells. By the end of the seventh day he could hardly drive his truck because of the rubbing and bending of sheet metal. Those springs completely failed.
I'll continue to use Alcan becase I live close and shiping the springs back and forth is cheap. Or I just drive there and show them the sagging.
So they work as long as your willing to F with them untill they get it right.

devo

 

[Mark W]

In answer to the original question, re-arch is not the way to go. It will not last.

Alcans;

Good stuff. But, to expand on the story that Devo relates... The owner of the '60 he mentions has had Alcan redo his springs at least 4, maybe 5 times.

It doesn't matter if you use Alcans, OMEs or anything else out there. You can not ask any rig to do everything. I've seen it tried and it never works well. If we keep the discussion centered on suspension, you can not expect to get a smooth ride, capacity to carry extrmely heavy loads, good handling, long life and extreme articulation. Or even particularly impressive articulation by anyone's standard once you get up in the load ranges.

Just the way it is.

I don't know what sort of gross weights you are hitting with your rig, how much you are flexing the spring, what sort of roads and what sort of speeds you are seeing either.
Bob (the owner of '60 refered to above) was running it at a GVW of about 7000 as a daily driver. And it was a daily driver in city as well as backroads. And the rig was run through Moab rocks and Alaska backcountry. Lift+heavy loads+ flexing can only last so long.


between the two options you present, go with Alcans.

Don't attempt to get too much lift. Be willing to accept a harsh ride and limited articulation.

Then you can carry extreme loads and expect the springs to last for a reasonable period.

Make sure they know (and really really understand) what you want. But even then, again...Don't attempt to get too much lift. be willing to accept a harsh ride and limited articulation.


Mark...

 

[60wag]

Something that rarely gets discusssed is the bump stops. Everyone lifts their truck but extending the stops is usually overlooked. FJ60 springs are relatively short in length. If you flex them too far, they bend. You might consider moving the springs mounts to acommodate a longer spring or at the very least extend the stops to reduce the overall flex of the spring.

 

[calphi27]

What about adding airbags to the system? A friend of my has two airbags in the rear of his truck that he airs up to handle the heavier loads. I am not sure if they articulate well, but they are adjustable for the most part.

 

[pismojim]

I'll try to keep this short.

I had a bad experience with "custom" Alcans. I loaded my SOA wagon with all my gear and weighed each corner. I put the truck on jack stands at the lift I was looking for. I measured the distance from perch to shackle, length of spring, length of shackles, and more. Basically, I needed more weight carrying capacity.

Alcan didn't follow my specific directions. I talked to Charles and Tom. The springs arrived longer than specified. Alcan admitted this on about the third phone call saying "Oh, it looks like we decided to make them longer to give more flex." Without telling me? The longer springs couldn't flex until I bought longer shackles. This added to the already too long and too arched spring making my lift way to high. In the front, the need to use longer shackles runing my castor which was perfect with a previous cut and turn.

Of course all this happened a couple weeks before Rubithon. I hoped they would settle down. The front did, but the castor was still screwed up. The rear didn't settle and remained way too high. Alcan didn't offer anything except a recommendation for ME to buy the longer shackles.???

When I finally got time to deal with it, I took them off with essentially one trip on them. I had my old OME heavies re-arched and I added another leaf. I used a local spring shop. I'm currently selling the Alcans at a big loss. I'll also sell the very nice, but longer shackles at another loss. I'm writing the episode off as an unfortunate lesson learned.

If you're close to Alcan's shop or if you're getting a standard 2-inch over stock spring you will likely be happy. If you're getting "custom" springs, and can't visit them in person, I'd say beware.

The Alcan springs are nicely built. I just wish they would have followed my measurements. I was floored when they eventually told me they changed the specs without telling me. Oh yeah, the location of the center pins was several inches off from the fixed end compared to the OMEs or stock springs.

Sorry for the long story, just another data point for you.

I say, Re-arch and add some leaves for the extra weight. I'm happy with mine.

Good Luck

 

[Mark W]

What about adding airbags to the system? A friend of my has two airbags in the rear of his truck that he airs up to handle the heavier loads. I am not sure if they articulate well, but they are adjustable for the most part.

With the limitied space available to work with in an SUA configuration, airbags will probably limit your articulation/suspension travel. Depending on exactly what you are looking for you may be able to make this work for you though. On a real work truck, airbags work great. We've got a set on a 1 ton Dodge dually that I put a heavy flatbed on. It also tows a heavy trailer with a bobcat and other construction equipment on. Even though the truck has the GVWR for the load it now carries, the rear springs were not up to the task. The airbags are a great improvement.

But again, this is a heavy duty work truck, not an off road rig.

I'm running some long, soft coil springs under one of my rigs. It is a leaf sprung SOA rig, with long, soft leafs. But I require it to carry pretty heavy loads on the trails. The rig is very flexy and soft riding and when I load it up for a long outing, it bottoms out badly at trail speed whenever the terrain gets rough. But it only takes me 10-15 minutes to toss the rig on the lift and install the springs (with the mounts left in full time) anytime I need the extra lift/spring rate.
Because of the springs I chose and the way they are installed, there is no limit to articulation from the coil springs (in the front of the rig, the 14 inch travel shocks are the limiting facotr in suspension travel. Much more so for articulation).

But the approach will not work in an sua configured rig due to space limitations.


Mark...