Real time help needed - ahc removal

[Eliot]

Hey guys, currently removing the ahc on my '99 LX. The rears went well, no real surprises there.

I'm having trouble with the front passenger side. The top nut is rusted on the shaft pretty good. I ended up drilling through the shock and putting a bolt through to hold the dust shield. I got about 2 full turns out of it and the dust sheild finally broke loose. I already used the mounting bracket for the ahc cnnection and that spins freely through the shaft as well...looks like I'm going to need to use my grinder to cut this shock out...

Can someone help describe to me the best way to cut this shock out? Or provide any other ways you've gotten your shock out? Really appreciate the help. And damn the rust gods!

 

[Eliot]

Was able to get a small 6 amp 4 1/2 inch grinder to cut the shock shaft right under the top nut. Had both front shocks off in 5 minutes each. I definitely recommend having a grinder on hand when doing this job, just in case all other options fail.

 

[uHu]

Good job. Tnx for sharing.

 

[agaisin]

Ditto - thanks for sharing your experience! Was just running into this myself over the weekend. I've still gotta tackle the fronts, might pick it up tonight. I think I'm done trying to use force of wrench on nut and pipe wrench/channelock on shock body so I don't think drilling hole in shock to hold in place will help me since I'm alone and probably won't get much more leverage than I already had. Planning to escalate tonight - have a few approaches in mind, curious if you/others have recommendations?
1) Try Kroil instead of PB Blaster? Not sure this is really gonna do anything though - but no loss trying if I could actually get my hands on Kroil
2) Try heat - hearing from some buddies to skip the propane use MAPP gas but from my reading looks like the 5300F MAPP Gas is no longer and everything since 2008 is map alternative (MAP Pro) and is only ~130-150 hotter than propane (propane at ~3540 and map pro at ~3600)
3) Cutoff with sawzall - feel like this could be more controlled and maybe not as much hot sparks flying around?
4) Cutoff with angle grinder - how'd ya do it in 5 minutes each? Any special cutoff discs? Did you just keep it running constantly for 5 minutes or do ~30 seconds at a time or something? I ask b/c at least in the back I had to take the handle off the grinder just to fit into place, and I guess I was holding the body of the grinder where the vents are but the thing was burning up and even with gloves on I couldn't hold it for longer than ~30 seconds at a time without burning my fingers. And maybe it was just the awkware position under the car in the rear, but it took me a hell of a lot longer than 5 minutes. Since in the rear I did 2 cuts each shock the second cut was into the rubber bushing and it just slowed/gunked/smoked everything up... so another reason I couldn't do more long stints of grinding.

Just want to confirm the cutoff point you used, is this red line right below the bolt where you cut off at? I would have expected to see the bracket in your picture of the nut unless I'm missing something. Photo courtesy of BadReligion - it's his picture of his rear shock but it's the best picture I have at the moment - I'll replace with my own tonight if I get a chance but the point is the same.

Note: to prevent confusion for anyone else looking at this there are different cutoff points in rear vs. front due to access limitations in both. In the rear you have to cutoff under the shock mount plate, in the front I think you have to cutoff above the shock mount plate. In the front it looks like the best bet is under the nut between the ahc bracket and the the top retainer and in the back personally I cutoff in two phases - one right above the shock body to get it out of the way and make room for the money shot right above the bottom most bushing retainer.

 

[Eliot]

The red line is exactly where I cut. Just make sure to rotate the shock tower so the holes on the AHC bracket are out of the way. I didn't take any pictures of the bracket, but I will try to get some when i get home later this week.

1) Kroil - never heard of it, I owe it to be faithful to PB blaster, it's just done too much for me

2) heat - i thought about this, but it didn't look like I could get a good angle with the torch to concentrate heat towards the nut. I would have been heating the shock shaft as well, so it really didn't make sense to try heat

3) Sawzall - also thought about trying this, but i didn't have the proper blades. I also figured, if i'm going to cut it, might as well just grind it.

4) angle grinder - I made 2-3 runs at the cut. probably less than 30 seconds for each run. I used 4.5 inch extended performance dewalt metal cutting discs (like $3 at lowes/home depot, i used 1 disc per shock, had multiple backups on hand). They cut through that bracket and shaft like it was hot butter...seriously, i was very impressed with the cutting speed. I had the handle on the grinder removed, and I had the spark sheild removed so I could see the blade and make an accurate cut. This definitely scared the sh*t outta me. I don't like using a grinder in a tight space like that, especially without the spark guard. It had to be done though, so I just went for it.

As far as other methods to get the nut off, i've included a picture to show you how i held the shock shaft still. I got a few turns out of the nut using this method. I put a longer bolt into one side of the ahc bracket. then i put the 19 mm socket on the shock nut. The wrench in the picture has the closed side of the wrench with the bolt in the AHC bracket through it. Then, the shock tower is rotated so the wrench pushes up against the mount for the upper control arm and the wrench wedges against the socket used to turn the shock nut. The vice grip is there in case the wrench slips up. Basically the wrench is holding the ahc bracket still. You can see in the picture that i've bent the ahc bracket already. I got a couple turns on the shock nut before the flat sides in the AHC bracket stripped out, and the shock spun freely through it. If you don't have as much corrosion as I did, this method may work for you. I was using a 3 foot cheater bar on that nut and pulling with some serious force.

 

[agaisin]

I had the handle on the grinder removed, and I had the spark sheild removed so I could see the blade and make an accurate cut. This definitely scared the sh*t outta me. I don't like using a grinder in a tight space like that, especially without the spark guard. It had to be done though, so I just went for it.

Have to comment on this from safety standpoint b/c I had a near life altering accident - I nearly lost my left eye using the angle grinder on the rear driver side shock and I want to remind anyone else to be super extra cautious - wear eye protection at all times etc... and I'd urge people not to use the angle grinder without the spark guard or whatever it's called b/c the disc can crack and fly out in your face... at 10k+ rpm and hot as *$&# that's gonna leave a mark at best. What happened to me in the rear is at one point squeezing the grinder and disc in place I felt the disc crack, but wasn't sure so I (stupidly) pulled down my fogged up goggles to get a better look at the disc and spun it for a few seconds to see if it was stable (stupid without goggles I know) and PHWACK a chunk of the cutoff disc flew into my eye socket - I was stunned and immediately assumed I lost my eye or something but didn't see blood and thought I was seeing with both eyes which felt wierd b/c of the shock to my brow and around my eye area, so I walked it off, went into the house and looked in the mirror and saw that it hit across my brow at an angle down and made contact with my nose. I feel lucky and stupid at the same time. I'm sure there are scarier accidents out there, but please be safe. After that experience and all the sparks and sometimes wandering blade, probably the main reason I went sawzall up front was to avoid sparks, perceived better control of the sawzall blade. Maybe it was my cheap angle grinder but two pet peaves with the model I was using: 1) mine had a switch instead of a paddle and I think the switch is harder to shutoff in a pinch. Next time I'll go with a paddle model I think, and 2) after shutoff the blade kept spinning for 5+ seconds enough to do damage, it didn't stop immediately. Have to believe some models out there will stop sooner by design etc...

Quick search for some real world fatalaties and injuries from angle grinders - looks like most with the guard off but some even with everything in place and just failed equipment: http://weldingweb.com/archive/index.php/t-30487.html

 

[Eliot]

Here's the first ahc bracket I cut. My first cut was a little high, second cut, right on the money.

Some other ahc info for any of those that stubble on this post:

The top shock nut for my '99 LX was a 19mm. All the other post I've read said 22mm, so that's the tools I bought. I guess 98/99 LX models have 19mm nuts.

To turn the ahc dash lights off, the only thing I did was pull the AHC I/G 20 amp fuse. This fuse is located in the drivers foot well. This fuse box is to the left of your left foot when you're sitting in the drivers seat.

 

[agaisin]

Interesting about the shock nuts - I've seen some say 19mm and for me it was definitely 22mm so there ya have it - earlier versions different size.

Wonder about the I/G 20 amp fuse - what I've seen others say is to disconnect the AHC ECU b/c some of the fuses effect/power more than just AHC (like ABS or VSC) and you wouldn't want to disable those inadvertantly.

Personally I was less concerned with the dash lights and more concerned with not wanting the pump to run and blow fluid all over the place. With the dash panel on it was a bit tough for me to access all the plugs - I disconnected one of them, disconnected the front height sensors, and even after that I'm pretty sure I heard the pump run but no errors or AHC related functions on the dash. After that I disconnected the pump as well so now I know it won't run.

Question for you - did you remove any of the AHC components or leave them in place, or remove/cut out easily accessible stuff?

Also - forgive me if I missed it, what did you replace AHC with - OEM or OME etc? What was your experience with Torsion bar adjustment? I replaced with used OEM springs and tb's and new OEM shocks. My fronts were waaaay too low after initial TB install - I need to go back and reindex significantly to gain a few inches up front (yea like 3.5" I think - I'm sitting at like 31 up front and 35+ in the rear).

Did you do any other work besides AHC swap out?

 

[Eliot]

I believe earlier 98/99 models did not have VSC or ATRAC. This is why I can pull this 20 amp fuse with no issues.

I only removed the shocks. I plugged each AHC line and then zip tied them out of the way. Eventually, I plan to remove all the components, but I didn't have the time this past weekend. From what i've seen a 12mm spanner and tin snips is the way to go.

I replaced AHC with OEM torsion bars and springs (from a 2002 LC with 100k miles) and 4600 Bilsteins. The ride is great now. Still a little road noise, which I believe can be muted with new bushings and control arms (one day). Torsion bar adjustment was very straight forward. Took me about 2 hours to install and adjust both bars. I started by loosening the 30mm adjustment bolt to the point where only a few threads on the end of the bolt were still poking through the hole on top of the carrier. Then i rotated the top of the torsion bar to the center of the vehicle, lined the splines up and connected the front carrier. This gave me plenty of 30mm bolt threads to gain and get the height i wanted.

I didn't do anything else related to the suspension, but here's some things I've done in the last couple months:
-radiator, thermostat, all hoses
-fan clutch
-timing belt, waterpump, crank seal
-brake pads/rotors, front bearings
-valve cover gaskets
-Lots of interior work (new steering wheel, front seats re-vinyled, and an Alpine IVE-W530)

Coming up:
-brake master cylinder rebuild
-drivers door actuator motor replacement