Question about inverters

[NY2LA]

Thank you @FrazzledHunter. I forgot that detail.

I've now been playing around with both the charger and power supply modes. They both work for me at 20Volts. This voltage gives me a smooth 220 watts of charging power.

But I'm having an issue going over 20V. Once I get to 22V or so, the Victron sudden tries to take the full 360watts. There is no increment between 220 and 360 for me. At the same time, my incoming voltage from the car battery goes into freefall. Over the course of 5 to 10 seconds, my voltage dives from about 12.9 (as measured after a 15-foot cord run) to less than 12, at which point my circuit breaker trips.

I'm not sure why there's this a sudden leap from 220 watts to 360 watts. I'm also not sure why my car battery can't maintain voltage at 360 watts. I have it sitting on a battery tender right now. I may be low on charge.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Thank you @FrazzledHunter. I forgot that detail.

I've now been playing around with both the charger and power supply modes. They both work for me at 20Volts. This voltage gives me a smooth 220 watts of charging power.

But I'm having an issue going over 20V. Once I get to 22V or so, the Victron sudden tries to take the full 360watts. There is no increment between 220 and 360 for me. At the same time, my incoming voltage from the car battery goes into freefall. Over the course of 5 to 10 seconds, my voltage dives from about 12.9 (as measured after a 15-foot cord run) to less than 12, at which point my circuit breaker trips.

I'm not sure why there's this a sudden leap from 220 watts to 360 watts. I'm also not sure why my car battery can't maintain voltage at 360 watts. I have it sitting on a battery tender right now. I may be low on charge.

I can take a guess as to what's happening. Remember that you're really connecting to a MPPT solar controller. The function of that type of controller is to get the most current out of a given voltage. As far as my experience goes there is no problem, other than the Victron getting hot, to setting the voltage to 24V and getting the full 360W into your Yeti.

I have actually seen 385 watts briefly and my guess is that it's the Victron limiting current. My diagram shows a blower that I use with the Victron. Without the blower the Victron gets HOT and the watts going into the Yeti will drop. As soon as I activate the blower the wattage into the Yeti increases to approx. 360W.

 

[NY2LA]

That's interesting @FrazzledHunter. The Yeti's MPPT could explain the lack of increments. But I wonder why you are enjoying the option of setting your unit to 24 volts and having your unit heating up in the process, whereas I can't get that far, due to a drop in the voltage entering the Victron when I set the voltage coming out of the Victron to over 22 volts.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

That's interesting @FrazzledHunter. The Yeti's MPPT could explain the lack of increments. But I wonder why you are enjoying the option of setting your unit to 24 volts and having your unit heating up in the process, whereas I can't get that far, due to a drop in the voltage entering the Victron when I set the voltage coming out of the Victron to over 22 volts.

First of all, my Orion is connected directly to the starter battery (I may change that some day) with 6GA wire so I took measurements* accordingly.

Your voltages will drop both on input and on output when the Yeti is actually charging. I configured the Victron as Function: Power Supply, Charger enabled:TRUE, Output voltage:24V, and the Input voltage lockout 12.8-13.5V. During testing you may wish to set the voltage lockouts to something low like 11.5-12.5V to make sure you force the Victron to activate but be sure you leave the engine running else you'll drain your battery. Disregard if you're running the Orion off a 2ndary battery.

*I don't have my measurements anymore but I took voltage measurements at the battery and the Victron's input and outputs in four scenarios:

Yeti connected and disconnected:

• Engine idle speed
• Engine 2000 RPM

One thing you'll notice that the open charge voltage out of the Orion with the Yeti disconnected is dead on 24V (or whatever you've chosen). Once your Yeti is connected and sucking watts all the voltages will drop.

Also remember that the voltages off the alternator vary with temperature. The same was true of my REDARC charging my 2ndary battery. I got over 14V from the alternator fairly often in very cold weather. Once it warmed up I almost never got over 14V. YMMV.

EDIT: make sure you get your battery voltage with the engine OFF, ideally for 24 hours. You need to know this value so that you never set the Orion lower lockout value below that.

 

[NY2LA]

Okay, so after swapping circuit breakers--my first one kept getting triggered by the voltage drops--I was able to get the Orion to work at the full 24 volts/360 watts output (closer to 380 most of the time.)

The catch is that my input voltage from the car battery, after the 15-foot wire run, stabilizes at 12.4 volts while the Orion outputs its 24 volts. This is actually the same as my car-off battery voltage. So there's no way to set the Orion to respond to the car being off. The best I could do is set it at, say, 12.2V and basically have it power down after it drains a a tiny amount from from the car battery.

In any case, I'm fine manually turning the Orion on and off if need be.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Okay, so after swapping circuit breakers--my first one kept getting triggered by the voltage drops--I was able to get the Orion to work at the full 24 volts/360 watts output (closer to 380 most of the time.)

The catch is that my input voltage from the car battery, after the 15-foot wire run, stabilizes at 12.4 volts while the Orion outputs its 24 volts. This is actually the same as my car-off battery voltage. So there's no way to set the Orion to respond to the car being off. The best I could do is set it at, say, 12.2V and basically have it power down after it drains a a tiny amount from from the car battery.

In any case, I'm fine manually turning the Orion on and off if need be.

Excellent & congrats!!!

I had virtually no drop in my 6GA extension that I ran from the driver's side under-dash to the Orion. (0.1V drop). You could theoretically rig up something using the Orion's switched inputs and the ignition but I didn't. I instead relied on the voltages, as you say, "have it power down after it drains a a tiny amount from from the car battery."

The Orion in my setup literally turns off in seconds after stopping the engine.

You may want to investigate some sort of forced cooling of the Orion.

Again - congrats!

 

[NY2LA]

Well, it looks like my different results were due to a depleted battery. After letting it sit on the battery tender all day--and the tender needed all day, because the orange light was and still is on--I ran some more tests, including a multimeter this time.

After a day of still-ongoing juicing, my truck battery was running at a steady, almost unwavering 13.67V, as measured at the terminals by the multimeter. Meanwhile, in the same moment, my Victron app was showing 13.7V getting fed into the Orion at the end of the 15-foot run. This held up at 24V output as the Orion, in power supply mode, fed the Yeti 1500x.

I replicated these results with my headlights, lightbar, AC, radio, and multiple auxiliary lights running at the same as the Victron. All results occured during idle.

So now I am showing no voltage drop at all and giving the truck battery some healing love.

For my wiring, I'm using a couple of Yeti EC8 cables (8 gauge, I think) for the entire run to from the truck battery to the Victron, with a Goal Zero circuit breaker interrupting the positive wire near the truck battery end. The end of the second Yeti is cut off and wired directly into the Victron inputs. From the Victron to the 1500x, I'm using an aftermarket 2-foot (soon to change to 3-foot) MC4 Yeti Powerpole to solar adapter (10 guage), with the solar ends cut off and screwed directly into the Victron outputs.

I'm not happy with the loose fit of the cable into the Yeti. So I'm going to order Yeti's own, shorter cable and extend it, so that I have a tight interface with the 1500x.

 

[prharper]

EDIT: At first I had the wrong wire gauges going to/from the Orion. Sorry.

We've had this on a couple of trips and it has worked really well for us.

• The Odyssey battery & the Anderson SB50 connector is mounted on Slee's tray.
• Heavy lines are 6GA wire but 8/10 GA from the Orion to the Anderson PP45.

Here's my setup, how I wired it, plus some thoughts on why I have a dual battery and the Yeti vs. other some of the other very good approaches I have read about on this forum:

View attachment 2758828
REDARC/2nd battery rationale:

• It's always there.
• Can jump start my or another vehicle - the Yeti can not do this.
• Could be used for any 12V load such as lighting, compressor etc...
• Supports solar

Yeti 1500X rationale:

• Supplies 12V, USB & 2000W pure sine power.
• It's portable.
• Supports solar
• Can be configured/monitored on our phone even while driving.

Victron Orion 12|24-15 rationale:

• Configurable as a power supply -the mode I use for charging the Yeti.
• Input voltages can be set so it turns off before starter battery is drained.
  • I have it so that if it's charging the Yeti it turns off literally in seconds after stopping the engine.
• Output voltages can be set to satisfy the Yeti's charging needs.
• Can be configured/monitored on our phone even while driving.
• It puts out a whopping 380W according to the Yeti 1500X.

There are pros & cons to my approach but running heavy wire to the rear of the LC for an inverter was WAY WAY WAY beyond my ability and while neater overall, had the disadvantage of not being portable and relatively limited in AC wattage.

OK - so here's the Victron setup - please be kind - I had 1 day before our 1st trip to put this together.

• I realize perhaps a GI ammo can or some sort of other enclosure might be better and I'll entertain that for the future.

However, cooling is a huge issue for the Orion - it gets HOT which is why I used a blower to cool it.
If the unit were ever accidentally left in an enclosed can I think it would certainly burn up so I went with the open design.

OK so it's crude but it meets a few crucial requirements:

• It had to work - which it does, thankfully LOL.
• No mods to the car.
• Cooling for the Orion had to be passive or active (with blower).
• Had to be simple, sturdy and able to be placed/strapped literally anywhere e.g. in the Cruiser, to a tree etc...
  • I bungee it to the top of the Yeti 1500X while driving.
• Cost had to be zero $; it was made 100% with stuff I had lying around.

View attachment 2758784

@FrazzledHunter What type of blower did you use to cool the Victron and does it consume much power from the Goal Zero?

 

[FrazzledHunter]

@FrazzledHunter What type of blower did you use to cool the Victron and does it consume much power from the Goal Zero?

AC Infinity MULTIFAN S2, Quiet 120mm USB Blower Fan with Speed Control, UL-Certified for Receiver DVR Xbox Modem AV Cabinet Cooling ​

Amazon product ASIN B012CL2V3I

• The blower is USB based and consumes such a minuscule amount of power you won't notice it.
• You probably won't hear it, certainly not while driving.
• Has 3 speeds
• It's UL rated, one of the very few that are.
• I took off the feet and mounted it and the Orion on a stack of 1/2 in. worth of washers.
  • This was so the Orion could ventilate passively should the blower fail.

There are other ways I could have done the mount such as in a tackle box but as I mentioned earlier I had certain ideas & requirements in mind.

 

[prharper]

AC Infinity MULTIFAN S2, Quiet 120mm USB Blower Fan with Speed Control, UL-Certified for Receiver DVR Xbox Modem AV Cabinet Cooling ​

Amazon product ASIN B012CL2V3I

• The blower is USB based and consumes such a minuscule amount of power you won't notice it.
• You probably won't hear it, certainly not while driving.
• Has 3 speeds
• It's UL rated, one of the very few that are.
• I took off the feet and mounted it and the Orion on a stack of 1/2 in. worth of washers.
  • This was so the Orion could ventilate passively should the blower fail.

There are other ways I could have done the mount such as in a tackle box but as I mentioned earlier I had certain ideas & requirements in mind.

Thanks.

BTW - I've got the same dual battery setup as you but looking for additional power options and flexibility. Your feedback on this thread convinced me to head over to an REI and buy a Yeti 1500x today instead of going with a big inverter in the cabin.

Last time I researched Goal Zero, Jackery and Dometic, I was not pleased with the AC DC charge times so put this on hold. Anyway, this option or the Yeti Link vehicle integration kit (comes with 8 gauge cable) greatly improves AC DC charge times.

I ordered the same Victron today. I do have an existing 8 gauge power cable going from my starter battery to the rear powering a Yaesu HAM radio (pulls < 10 amps max). I should be ok using this cable for the Victron. I really don't want to have to swap it out or run another power cable and go thru the crowded firewall again.

Should be a fun little project over the coming weekend. I'll need to figure out a way to secure the Yeti 1500x in the cabin or tie down to the drawers. I've run across some other posts on a 200 forum covering some mounting options.

Thanks for the great info in this thread.

Edit: meant DC charge times off vehicle battery and not AC

 

[FrazzledHunter]

Thanks.

BTW - I've got the same dual battery setup as you but looking for additional power options and flexibility. Your feedback on this thread convinced me to head over to an REI and buy a Yeti 1500x today instead of going with a big inverter in the cabin.

Last time I researched Goal Zero, Jackery and Dometic, I was not pleased with the AC charge times so put this on hold. Anyway, this option or the Yeti Link vehicle integration kit (comes with 8 gauge cable) greatly improves AC charge times.

I ordered the same Victron today. I do have an existing 8 gauge power cable going from my starter battery to the rear powering a Yaesu HAM radio (pulls < 10 amps max). I should be ok using this cable for the Victron. I really don't want to have to swap it out or run another power cable and go thru the crowded firewall again.

Should be a fun little project over the coming weekend. I'll need to figure out a way to secure the Yeti 1500x in the cabin or tie down to the drawers. I've run across some other posts on a 200 forum covering some mounting options.

View attachment 2773916View attachment 2773917

Thanks for the great info in this thread.

I think you'll be very happy with the Yeti. I just got their 600W AC charger and that charges fast at about 580W.
We camped & RV'd for 20 years constantly worrying about refrigeration. We had cold pacs that we froze in the RV using propane fridge to be used while towing. We just tent camped using the Yeti & a Dometic CFX3 75L. It was comical...we had the Yeti & Dometic in the LC and a power cord with a power strip running into our tent. We had light, an oscillating fan & cell phone chargers. It was utterly ridiculous how comfortable we were.

 

[prharper]

I think you'll be very happy with the Yeti. I just got their 600W AC charger and that charges fast at about 580W.
We camped & RV'd for 20 years constantly worrying about refrigeration. We had cold pacs that we froze in the RV using propane fridge to be used while towing. We just tent camped using the Yeti & a Dometic CFX3 75L. It was comical...we had the Yeti & Dometic in the LC and a power cord with a power strip running into our tent. We had light, an oscillating fan & cell phone chargers. It was utterly ridiculous how comfortable we were.

Great to hear. I ordered the 600W AC charger earlier today from REI, they don't sell it (or any Goal Zero accessories) in their stores.

 

[sdnative]

FYI in case you didn't see this:

Goal Zero 1000x + Nomad 100 on sale at Costco for Labor Day

Goal Zero Yeti 1000X + Nomad 100 Solar Generator Kit $1,099.99 After $300 OFF Valid 9/6/21 through 9/10/21. While supplies last. https://www.costco.com/goal-zero-yeti-1000x-%2b-nomad-100-solar-generator-kit.product.100785839.html

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[prharper]

EDIT: At first I had the wrong wire gauges going to/from the Orion. Sorry.

We've had this on a couple of trips and it has worked really well for us.

• The Odyssey battery & the Anderson SB50 connector is mounted on Slee's tray.
• Heavy lines are 6GA wire but 8/10 GA from the Orion to the Anderson PP45.

Here's my setup, how I wired it, plus some thoughts on why I have a dual battery and the Yeti vs. other some of the other very good approaches I have read about on this forum:

View attachment 2758828
REDARC/2nd battery rationale:

• It's always there.
• Can jump start my or another vehicle - the Yeti can not do this.
• Could be used for any 12V load such as lighting, compressor etc...
• Supports solar

Yeti 1500X rationale:

• Supplies 12V, USB & 2000W pure sine power.
• It's portable.
• Supports solar
• Can be configured/monitored on our phone even while driving.

Victron Orion 12|24-15 rationale:

• Configurable as a power supply -the mode I use for charging the Yeti.
• Input voltages can be set so it turns off before starter battery is drained.
  • I have it so that if it's charging the Yeti it turns off literally in seconds after stopping the engine.
• Output voltages can be set to satisfy the Yeti's charging needs.
• Can be configured/monitored on our phone even while driving.
• It puts out a whopping 380W according to the Yeti 1500X.

There are pros & cons to my approach but running heavy wire to the rear of the LC for an inverter was WAY WAY WAY beyond my ability and while neater overall, had the disadvantage of not being portable and relatively limited in AC wattage.

OK - so here's the Victron setup - please be kind - I had 1 day before our 1st trip to put this together.

• I realize perhaps a GI ammo can or some sort of other enclosure might be better and I'll entertain that for the future.

However, cooling is a huge issue for the Orion - it gets HOT which is why I used a blower to cool it.
If the unit were ever accidentally left in an enclosed can I think it would certainly burn up so I went with the open design.

OK so it's crude but it meets a few crucial requirements:

• It had to work - which it does, thankfully LOL.
• No mods to the car.
• Cooling for the Orion had to be passive or active (with blower).
• Had to be simple, sturdy and able to be placed/strapped literally anywhere e.g. in the Cruiser, to a tree etc...
  • I bungee it to the top of the Yeti 1500X while driving.
• Cost had to be zero $; it was made 100% with stuff I had lying around.

View attachment 2758784

@FrazzledHunter Borrowed your idea of cooling fan.

Had some spare plexiglass laying around. Cut and mounted the Victron and fan to plexiglass. Put some vinyl pads under it so it should rest on top of the Yeti and I'll secure it down. Initial setup in the app was easy based on your instructions. I need to fine tune my cutoff volt values. Made the cables using some spare Anderson connectors.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

@FrazzledHunter Borrowed your idea of cooling fan.

Had some spare plexiglass laying around. Cut and mounted the Victron and fan to plexiglass. Put some vinyl pads under it so it should rest on top of the Yeti and I'll secure it down. Initial setup in the app was easy based on your instructions. I need to fine tune my cutoff volt values. Made the cables using some spare Anderson connectors.

View attachment 2780795View attachment 2780796

Awesome! With the blower working you can safely run the Orion laying cooling grid down. I bungee my setup to the top of the Yeti.