Purchasing Suspension Parts and Installing

[JADANT]

Wanted to find out how common it is to buy Suspension kits and parts on your own then taking the parts to a shop for the install vs. buying parts from the shop you get it installed from?

 

[NLScooby]

Many shops don't like this for a few reasons:

1) They make some money by purchasing wholesale and selling them to you at a markup (often their price to you could be similar to what you paid for them)

2) When something goes wrong - its the finger pointing game. Normally you'd go back to the shop you had the work done. If the part is defective they'll take care of the warranty for you. If you bought the part, they'll likely say you are on your own - or they'll need to charge you to remove and replace again.

3) People often bring the wrong parts in to shops (they may have ordered something incorrectly or have been shipped the wrong part) - and this will cause significant delays in getting your vehicle back (especially if they've already torn it apart)...and now you are at their mercy for getting the right part ordered and installed.

I'd recommend ordering the parts yourself if you do the work yourself. If you don't want to do the work yourself, then talk to the shop owner about the prices they are charging you for the parts....they may be able to match the price you were going to order them for.

Just my $0.02

 

[linuxgod]

Are you looking at factory parts, or aftermarket upgrades?

In my experience if you take parts to a Toyota dealer they'll install them for the same labor rate, but they won't warranty them. If there's something wrong with the part you're definitely paying for the labor twice. If the dealer buys the part and there's an issue during the install (for example they get it back together and then notice that a new shock is bent) they typically will fix it.

For aftermarket parts, shops like to sell the parts of they have them, but if for instance you're looking at an OME BP51 lift it's unlikely most shops will resell them. In those cases most shops will do the install at the standard labor rate.

I've had more luck with local shops doing aftermarket installs with customer-provided parts than big chains, and sometimes shops don't want to touch aftermarket work at all (i.e. there were two Firestone shops by me that would accept tires from one of the online tire warehouses - one of them was willing to mount up-sized tires and non-factory wheels on my LC (so long as I accepted any issues that they might cause), and the other refused to touch anything but factory size tires).

 

[JADANT]

Thanks linuxgod. I was looking to piece meal as current situation (wife's eagle eye on budget) won't allow me to buy everything at once. So was going to buy UCA's this year then pick up BP51's and springs mid next year. Take the parts to the local shop and have them install it, I could save some dollars since the shop that quoted me the work is charging about $500 more for the parts then what I have found elsewhere. Again if there are issues with the parts that could be a problem.

 

[JADANT]

NLScooby, thanks for your $.02. I want to do the install myself but never installed UCA's or shocks myself. Doesn't look difficult from what I have looked into. I also never replaced a CV Axle before but did it on my 1999 Isuzu Trooper with some help from a friend on one side and decided to the other side on my own. I am just nervous of screwing something up on a 7 month old LC, but it would be great learning and when I need a rebuild I can do it myself... hmmm....

 

[linuxgod]

Personally I'd set the $ aside until you're ready (or close). If you buy UCAs now and have an issue with them when installing 6 months from now, you'll have to go to the UCA manufacturer for help. If you buy them 6 months from now and have an issue, you can always go to the seller for help. You might be able to get a deal on the whole package as well, rather than buying from different sellers or at different times. Also some sellers may have deals around the holidays or early into next year so keep your eyes open.

I bought SPC UCAs, mostly due to the price point and less maintenance vs the heim joint on the TC arms. The new SPCs have a grease zerk on the ball joint. I broke the grease zerk the first time I plugged a grease gun onto it, and had to bike to the local parts shop for a replacement. Time will tell how these hold up... hopefully the grease zerk isn't an indication of overall quality.

As far as install goes:
The UCAs were easy. I did the pair in 3 hours, and I'm slooooow. Support the spindle with a jack, remove the cotter pin and crown bolt, unbolt the ABS wire and brake line, and use a ball joint puller or just hit the side of the UCA near the ball joint with a BFH. There's one long bolt on either side that holds the UCA to the frame - biggest pain was getting under the hood with the front end on jack stands in order to be able to slide the bolt forward enough to remove the UCAs.

Rear springs and shocks are pretty easy. Actually shocks are cake, and the DS side spring falls out, but the PS side requires some leverage and possibly a screwdriver to pry it out. These should take 1-2 hours... took me 3-4 working by myself, half of which was trying to realign the sway bar because I needed a 3rd arm.

I had a lot more trouble getting the front struts out. I followed the Tough Dog instructions, thought I've heard it's better to just loosen the LCA cam bolts to provide for additional travel.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

To add on the Linux’s post above.

For the rear passenger spring, unbolt the sway bar to axle housing brackets and the panhard rod, axle side. The rear passenger spring just falls out. So much faster to unbolt and 5 bolts then to play with spring compressors.

 

[linuxgod]

I did unbolt the sway bar, though I didn't unbolt the panhard rod. With the 4 sway bar bolts removed it doesn't take much to pry the spring out - have a friend push down on the brake disk or if you're solo like me I sat on a 3-4' metal bar that was stuck under the diff carrier and over the RLCA, and then it basically pulled out (slipping a flathead screwdriver under the spring here made it even faster). If I ever need to remove the rear springs again I will try removing the panhard rod though.

The big hassle I had was getting the sway bar bolted back up. Every time I tried to jack the rear up, or lever the sway bar, it would shift or rotate and I had a helluva time trying to get it back into the mount on the diff, particularly on the PS side. I think Tough Dog recommends removing the sway bar on the DS at the arm and on the PS at the sway bar end link.

I kinda feel like I need to hang out with you, @Taco2Cruiser and watch you do this to see what I'm doing wrong. Ditto on the front struts - following the TD directions the fronts were ungodly hard to pry out of the cradle, but I know @TonyP said loosening the cam bolts made the job quick.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I did unbolt the sway bar, though I didn't unbolt the panhard rod. With the 4 sway bar bolts removed it doesn't take much to pry the spring out - have a friend push down on the brake disk or if you're solo like me I sat on a 3-4' metal bar that was stuck under the diff carrier and over the RLCA, and then it basically pulled out (slipping a flathead screwdriver under the spring here made it even faster). If I ever need to remove the rear springs again I will try removing the panhard rod though.

The big hassle I had was getting the sway bar bolted back up. Every time I tried to jack the rear up, or lever the sway bar, it would shift or rotate and I had a helluva time trying to get it back into the mount on the diff, particularly on the PS side. I think Tough Dog recommends removing the sway bar on the DS at the arm and on the PS at the sway bar end link.

I kinda feel like I need to hang out with you, @Taco2Cruiser and watch you do this to see what I'm doing wrong. Ditto on the front struts - following the TD directions the fronts were ungodly hard to pry out of the cradle, but I know @TonyP said loosening the cam bolts made the job quick.

Well, I should be down in Danville during Christmas timeframe, we could always take something apart.

But absolutely, with just the sway bar removed, you still won’t get enough droop, the panhard with sway bar to keep it front shift is the ticket.

When putting it back together, once cools and shocks are back on, I mount tires and drop the truck on the ground. Then putting the anti sway bar on is easy, just use a the floor jack you used to lift the truck on the KDSS arm and lift into place, then driver side will bolt right in easy, which means passenger side goes on with no struggle right after it. Then for the panhard, it will be very close, so a racket strap from frame to axle will bring it that last bit quite easy.

That also minimizes time spent under the truck without tires on and on the ground. Had a friend get killed because one of his 6 ton stands bucked and put a Dana 70 through his chest.

Plus there is much more room to bolt and unbolt the sway bar and panhard than the rather tight area to fit spring compressors.

It’s all personal preference, but I always work solo, and I switched my 2722s to 2723s in 25 minutes doing it like that a month or so ago.

The only guessing part is to know where you would like to attach the ratchet strap for the panhard, and that only if it doesn’t just fall right where it needs to be. I have an Tough Dog adjutable (which I think could be improved upon a little, but I will say it’s the best off the shelf panhard you can buy for a 200 and the price is right by going through Trail Taylor) and after making sure it was dead centered on the lift with no panhard, then centering it with a plumb bob while on the ground loaded, it just slides in like the smooth criminal it is.

 

[JADANT]

Thanks @Taco2Cruiser and @linuxgod for the pointers. @Taco2Cruiser did you do the panhard bar later, if so did you notice a difference?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Thanks @Taco2Cruiser and @linuxgod for the pointers. @Taco2Cruiser did you do the panhard bar later, if so did you notice a difference?

I did the panhard at a later date than my lift and no I didn’t feel a difference*.

*I do my own alignments in my garage. So having my rear end square saves me a little time when stringing the car for the alignment. If you don’t do your own alignments, then you won’t see any real benefit to a longer panhard with only 2” of rear lift. Same with rear upper control arms. And unless you are seriously lifted from something only a SAS can produce, the rear lower control arms should never be lengthened.

 

[Atwalz]

I did the panhard at a later date than my lift and no I didn’t feel a difference*.

*I do my own alignments in my garage. So having my rear end square saves me a little time when stringing the car for the alignment. If you don’t do your own alignments, then you won’t see any real benefit to a longer panhard with only 2” of rear lift. Same with rear upper control arms. And unless you are seriously lifted from something only a SAS can produce, the rear lower control arms should never be lengthened.

Can you do an alignment video so that others and I can learn?

 

[Markuson]

I've never had a shop gripe about bringing my own purchased suspension parts... Maybe the owner grumbles and I didn't know about it...but I've never heard a peep.

Can you do an alignment video so that others and I can learn?

I've pestered Taco about that too... Some of us special-needs mechanics want to know!