opinions on front lockers

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jason in tn

jason in tn

Joined
Sep 5, 2011
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hohenwald TN
I am looking for some opinions on a locker for the front of my 97 runner. I know that ARB is the standard but has anybody had experience with a lock rite or other lunch box type locker in one of these diff.

Sent from my detachment from reality.
 
Great post. I've been searching for locker ideas for the front of my 2000 Tacoma. Have the E-locker in the back.
 
I would suggest that a front locker is often a waste of $ with these. The axle shafts just aren't up to the task of serious offroading where you'll be using a front locker much. Most front lockers end up being thrown out with the IFS in favor of a solid axle.

That said I would love to have a selectable front locker in my stock 4runner. I think I could use it judiciously and make it work for me. I have an FJ40 with front and rear lockers and 38's so I have something for more hardcore offroading... and i know how to break axles too... So I do think there could be a great benefit to have a selectable locker for a lot of situations where I'm in my 4runner.

I don't think I'd want an automatic locker in the front of my IFS 4runner because of the weakness of the IFS and I'd be scared of breaking axles too much when I might not even need a front locker.
 
I have not been driving it for a couple of years, now, but prior to that I had no complaints about the lockright in the front/rear of my mini-truck.

With 36 inch tires and 4.88s and a 350 it was a hellofafun ride.

Yep, the IFS is not all that strong for serious stress wheeling, you really want to have a solid front axle... I sheared 6 teeth off of the front ring one night when I hit bare frozen sand while spinning the tires at full throttle climbing out of a hole in the ice. But with the 350, I could probably break every component in the truck if I *tried* to. for 99% of the trail use that rig saw, it was just a matter of driving and not worrying about it.

If you don't drive it stupid... and especially if you don't have a V8 crammed into the rig... the IFS is no reason not to lock the front end though. The inherent limitations of the IFS far outweigh any additional concerns caused by locking it.

I am not a fan of auto-lockers in the front of any rig that needs to use 4wd on the street in the winter very often.

My daughter's Tacoma had ARBs at both ends and we never had a complaint with it. It had the Toyota super charger on the 3.4, but it did not really get stressed off road and only had 35 inch tires.


Mark...
 
Thanks, I visited Cruiseroutfitters website and saw that they sell an ARB locker for the Tacoma front end. I like the idea of also having an air compressor onboard. A bit spendy but ARB makes top notch stuff.
 
I know you asked a bout a locker, but what about an LSD?....There are not only aftermarket ones, but Toyota made some 7.5" LSDs for the rear of the late 80's Cressidas and Supras.
 
There are several people with lunchbox lockers and 35s who do just fine. PMd u.
 
Where is the OP located?
Does he or she get snow in the winter and need to use 4wheel drive on snowy/icey pavement?

If so, I wouldn't consider anything but an ARB if you're going to lock up the front.
If not, and/or the 4 wheel drive is only used offroad, then a LockRight or other lunchbox type locker would be fine.
 
When a friend with a 3rd gen 4runner had 33s and a front locker he would break an axle shaft at least every other trail run before a solid axle swap. Before the long fields I used to break front birfields which are stronger than the IFS shafts pretty routinely. And that was just mountain logging road kinda offroading with a 4cyl. I will say that the ifs axles are a bit easier to replace on the trail than a birfield - so there is that benefit.

I just don't see how you could get away with 35s without lots of breakage if you're doing the kind of offroading where you need locking differentials. Possibly they are only used on pretty mild trails? I'd think you could break axle shafts just by turning a tight circle on asphalt in 4wd.

I'm just a bit surprised. I've never heard anyone say that they thought the ifs was up to the task of 35s and a locker.
 
Jetboy said:
When a friend with a 3rd gen 4runner had 33s and a front locker he would break an axle shaft at least every other trail run before a solid axle swap. Before the long fields I used to break front birfields which are stronger than the IFS shafts pretty routinely. And that was just mountain logging road kinda offroading with a 4cyl. I will say that the ifs axles are a bit easier to replace on the trail than a birfield - so there is that benefit.

I just don't see how you could get away with 35s without lots of breakage if you're doing the kind of offroading where you need locking differentials. Possibly they are only used on pretty mild trails? I'd think you could break axle shafts just by turning a tight circle on asphalt in 4wd.

I'm just a bit surprised. I've never heard anyone say that they thought the ifs was up to the task of 35s and a locker.
Click to expand...

I am just saying its doable and can live just fine.

I am not saying stock IFS compares to SA in any way shape or form.

Once you learn the limitations of the IFS, be very easy on the skinny petal, full lock turns and full droop = bad. You can wheel them on difficult trails without breakage w/ 35s.

It may have to do with the fact that here in SOCAL its dry 99% of the time so we get great traction and can get away with very little wheel spin.

LOL with all that being said I have a set of axles from a 1977 F150 sitting in my garage...
 
ARB's are probably the best...there's no reason to break a front axle in an IFS if you use the locker correctly. Most people I have seen (that break their axles) are doing things with their trucks that they shouldn't be doing...even with a front locker. A front locker if used correctly will get you out of most trouble...it's not a solution for tackling the toughest trails. The great thing about an ARB is the ability to lock and unlock quickly and easily...turn it off if you're going to be turning or aggressively hitting an obstacle (unless you want to break an axle)...turn it off when you're backing up. None the less love the ARB front locker but, use it smartly and correctly...it won't turn your vehicle into an indestructible rock crawler.

- Mark
 
I ran my second gen 350 powered stock drivetrained mini with lockrights and 4.88s pushing 36 inch swampers for several years and never had a front axle problem. I did shear teeth off the ring gear once, bent an a arm once and had rear wheel bearings fail at least a couple of times (The rear wheel bearings are the weakest link in a mini-truck that is actually used like a truck :( )

I did not drive the truck stupid. I knew that I could have broken most of the drivetrain if I had tried. but I did not baby it either. It was a hell of a lot of fun on the street, in the mud and on every trail it was subjected to. I hauled bedfulls of gear and fuel for groups on the Treks, I towed trailers 200 gallons of fuel over fairly challenging terrain for week long stretches and generally used the truck hard without thinking about it. Others drove it hard too. if I ever get around to dealing with some engine problems that dead lined it, it will see a lot more of the same use. If you are snapping axles and birfields in 4 cylinder mini trucks with 35 inch tires, in "logging road' usage... you are doing something really really wrong


Mark...
 
Mark W said:
If you are snapping axles and birfields in 4 cylinder mini trucks with 35 inch tires, in "logging road' usage... you are doing something really really wrong


Mark...
Click to expand...

That was my thought as I read through this thread.

I think that 33's and a front locker is fine on IFS - plenty of people around here run setups like that and wheel tough trails (like AreaBFE tough or Holy Cross tough). 35's are pushing it, but if you are smart about your driving there is no reason to be routinely breaking axles. That said, avoid the "lifetime warranty" AutoZone or OReilly's axles - they will break. Stick with OEM axle shafts.
 
Mark W said:
I ran my second gen 350 powered stock drivetrained mini with lockrights and 4.88s pushing 36 inch swampers for several years and never had a front axle problem. I did shear teeth off the ring gear once, bent an a arm once and had rear wheel bearings fail at least a couple of times (The rear wheel bearings are the weakest link in a mini-truck that is actually used like a truck :( )

I did not drive the truck stupid. I knew that I could have broken most of the drivetrain if I had tried. but I did not baby it either. It was a hell of a lot of fun on the street, in the mud and on every trail it was subjected to. I hauled bedfulls of gear and fuel for groups on the Treks, I towed trailers 200 gallons of fuel over fairly challenging terrain for week long stretches and generally used the truck hard without thinking about it. Others drove it hard too. if I ever get around to dealing with some engine problems that dead lined it, it will see a lot more of the same use. If you are snapping axles and birfields in 4 cylinder mini trucks with 35 inch tires, in "logging road' usage... you are doing something really really wrong


Mark...
Click to expand...

I've done it many times. Often in snow. It's surprising how easy it is to blow up a stock birf with 2psi in deep snow. There's no meaningful rock crawling around where I lived in Montana. Just old logging roads. They are difficult enough to be impassable with something like a stock Rubicon, but they aren't all that bad. Usually a mix of rock, mud, logs, river crossings, and snow or ice.

If the road is impassable with only a rear locker and 35's in a mini-truck/4runner, it has not been my experience that the stock axles are strong enough to handle a front locker on that same trail. My suspicion is that if 35's and lockers are working well together, the trails aren't the type that you need the front locked up.
 
Just to give some idea of strength, a stock birf will fail around 4,200ft lbs. That is straight on in the strongest orientation. I suspect at full lock it is less than half of that strength. I don't know what a stock CV in an IFS will fail at. I'm not sure it's a whole lot less than a stock Birf, but it's almost never aligned - and usually at a higher angle with a lift and larger tires. My offhand unsupported guess is that it's 70% as strong with the steering straight as a stock birf due to the inherent misalignment from a lift and the nature of the IFS.

3,000lbs of force at the surface on a 35" tire is the point of failure straight on in the strongest orientation.


If for example you're at a ledge. You need the front axle to lift the front of the vehicle vertically a distance. If the force required by one tire is more than 3,000lbs, the axle will fail. The front of the vehicle weights 2,000lbs, and only 1 front tire has traction, the other is in the air. It doesn't take a really tough obstacle to get the rear end hung up a little, one front tire off the ground and you're going to exceed 3,000lbs of force and snap that axle. That's an easy situation to encounter on an abandoned logging road.

For example you have a log across the trail. It's 18" diameter, wet, and slippery. Front goes over without issue. There's also some ice and snow on the trail. Rear can't climb over due to low traction and only one front has good traction. There's a really high probability of front axle failure in that situation with a front locker. That same situation could be had climbing out of a frozen river bottom, or any number of obstacles.

If you need the front locker, in my experience it will push the axles to their limits with 35" tires.
 
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