One lightweight (but structural) alternative for paneling...

[Patineto]

in Europe and specially in china that are so many options in all gamete of prices, fuatures and materials, (check Gases for reference)

Fiberglass Composite Panels | Total Composites

 

[Bogo]

I did lots of research on SIP type panels a few years back, and there are many US makers too. Nothing new here. Did you know with a flat vacuum table you can make your own SIPs using commonly available materials. That way you can use a sturdier aluminum skin exterior and a light easy to clean FRP interior. You can also embed mounting blocks of hardwoods where you will need fastener holding strength, or structural strength for something else like a rack or roof vent. You can even do things like build door and window frames right into the panel. Even the edges of the panels can be made to seamlessly mate with other panels. The biggest issues is you really need to plan ahead, and include those conduits for running electrical, etc. Once the panel is made, it's kinda hard to add wiring without harming it's strength.

This is designed so a plunge router can be used to separate the door from the wall after vacuum bonding of the SIP wall. A void would need to be built into the door frame where the D weather seal is. Once the plunge router is used to cut the inside and outside blocks, the door should be removable. The dark green angles an aluminum angle that is bonded in place, then cut to shape with a quarter round carbide router bit. As that is done, the wood and skin are also rounded off in the same operation. Then an aluminum skin sheet (yellow) is bonded and bent over to provide the moulding. The blue is caulk to seal the gap to keep water out. The light green are aluminum angles. The black is a D moulding, or a bulb moulding with tangent side strip. Note, the aluminum angles will need to be carefully bent at the door corners to follow the curves at the corners. If you use sharp 9 degree corners and protect the wood behind with epoxy resin, you should be able to change the aluminum angles to FRP angles and cut heat conduction.

This is a joint detail for two panels with wood edges, and held together with a glued and keyed joint. No more attachment should be needed. The pink is 2" thick foam insulation like available from most home stores. the wood edges would have to be milled to the thickness of the insulation.
Before gluing to show the panels and key block.

After gluing panels together.

With the added surface are provided by the key piece, and it's placement, the joint has sufficient glue area, and multi directional glue planes so it will hold up to forces trying to break it apart. Water ingress can only happen at the inside corner and outside corner. The inside corner could have a caulk bead ran along it. With a quarter round at the outside corner, bending the aluminum skin around, then overlapping it over the bottom skin water ingress can be eliminated. The wood could also be pretreated with pore filling epoxy resins to be waterproof in that corner. They just need to be compatible with the skin attachment glue.

An alternate corner for more strength against external impacts to it. This was designed for a hard sided popup so there are two wall sets. The one with the rounded outside corner is for the popup top. The aluminum sheet is bent with a 2" radius via a slip roll of sufficient length. the rest of the pieces are common off the shelf parts cut to size. The red blocks are plastic glides, and likely should have a bit of gap for easy sliding. The darker orange are SIP panels. The lighter orange is spray in foam to fill the voids. I think I was planning on using VHB tapes to glue the panels to the angle irons and outer corner. Any automotive body gluing technique could be used.

You could make that outer corner in the above a bit stronger using hat channels to stiffen it up. The hat channels can easily be bent using a metal break.

You may also wish to look at this thread for more ideas. Travelling Cruisers The cruiser build in it uses an external frame with SIP panels.

 

[Patineto]

I did lots of research on SIP type panels a few years back, and there are many US makers too. Nothing new here. Did you know with a flat vacuum table you can make your own SIPs using commonly available materials. That way you can use a sturdier aluminum skin exterior and a light easy to clean FRP interior. You can also embed mounting blocks of hardwoods where you will need fastener holding strength, or structural strength for something else like a rack or roof vent. You can even do things like build door and window frames right into the panel. Even the edges of the panels can be made to seamlessly mate with other panels. The biggest issues is you really need to plan ahead, and include those conduits for running electrical, etc. Once the panel is made, it's kinda hard to add wiring without harming it's strength.

This is designed so a plunge router can be used to separate the door from the wall after vacuum bonding of the SIP wall. A void would need to be built into the door frame where the D weather seal is. Once the plunge router is used to cut the inside and outside blocks, the door should be removable. The dark green angles an aluminum angle that is bonded in place, then cut to shape with a quarter round carbide router bit. As that is done, the wood and skin are also rounded off in the same operation. Then an aluminum skin sheet (yellow) is bonded and bent over to provide the moulding. The blue is caulk to seal the gap to keep water out. The light green are aluminum angles. The black is a D moulding, or a bulb moulding with tangent side strip. Note, the aluminum angles will need to be carefully bent at the door corners to follow the curves at the corners. If you use sharp 9 degree corners and protect the wood behind with epoxy resin, you should be able to change the aluminum angles to FRP angles and cut heat conduction.
View attachment 1385930

This is a joint detail for two panels with wood edges, and held together with a glued and keyed joint. No more attachment should be needed. The pink is 2" thick foam insulation like available from most home stores. the wood edges would have to be milled to the thickness of the insulation.
Before gluing to show the panels and key block.
View attachment 1385914

After gluing panels together.
View attachment 1385917

With the added surface are provided by the key piece, and it's placement, the joint has sufficient glue area, and multi directional glue planes so it will hold up to forces trying to break it apart. Water ingress can only happen at the inside corner and outside corner. The inside corner could have a caulk bead ran along it. With a quarter round at the outside corner, bending the aluminum skin around, then overlapping it over the bottom skin water ingress can be eliminated. The wood could also be pretreated with pore filling epoxy resins to be waterproof in that corner. They just need to be compatible with the skin attachment glue.

An alternate corner for more strength against external impacts to it. This was designed for a hard sided popup so there are two wall sets. The one with the rounded outside corner is for the popup top. The aluminum sheet is bent with a 2" radius via a slip roll of sufficient length. the rest of the pieces are common off the shelf parts cut to size. The red blocks are plastic glides, and likely should have a bit of gap for easy sliding. The darker orange are SIP panels. The lighter orange is spray in foam to fill the voids. I think I was planning on using VHB tapes to glue the panels to the angle irons and outer corner. Any automotive body gluing technique could be used.
View attachment 1385923

You could make that outer corner in the above a bit stronger using hat channels to stiffen it up. The hat channels can easily be bent using a metal break.
View attachment 1385924

You may also wish to look at this thread for more ideas. Travelling Cruisers The cruiser build in it uses an external frame with SIP panels.

Very nicely done...


Yes nothing more than a 'super size' and a mega huge vacuum former pump...".

snowboard press will do the trick...

Not exactly dyi, do to the size but nothing is altar complicated..


The most important thing is playing 9for example with the storage shelving) figuring out the hard points, where you need wood/6061 inverts, tons of details but that is actually half the fun...

Very nicely done, thanks for sharing..

600 pounder with cheese. With the proper drainage, stifmers, gussets, pre calculated, doors, windows, walls, messanines, it can be made much lighter but also much stiffer and also STRONGER...

Is all about planning and some how careful execution..

 

[Bogo]

I figured it wouldn't be much issue to home make panels up to 12' x 7'. You may want a friend or two to help with the larger layups. That is big enough for this small hard sided pop-up trailer with all the creature comforts for two.

Lowered for transport, tow vehicle is a 2nd gen 4Runner.

The front and rear streamlining would be fiberglass formed over foam. The main body area is all SIP panel construction.

Lifted for use.

inside with top and wall removed.

Modules for sinks and tables are mounted to the walls using shelf brackets, then stored on the floor during transport. The tile floor area is a shower drain floor. A shower curtain and shower head can be hanged from the ceiling. The toilet is vacuum flush. They are low water use and actually work. A chest type cooler for refrigeration. The top is planned to be covered with solar panels. It wouldn't be enough for air-conditioning, but could easily provide all other domestic uses. An air-conditioner is tucked under the front dome. The tail cone has storage built into it that can be accessed from the inside. Tire size is 32x10R15 like used on my 4Runner. It also has a clear 10" of ground clearance. The wheel well is covered so the inside of the lifted wall doesn't get dirty.

The main frame is sandwiched into the basement floor so it doesn't take up basement space. The space between the main floor and basement floor is used for storage of water (sea green), gray water (light gray), black water tank and vacuum flush system(dark gray), a battery bank (yellow), water heater(purple), water boiler for heating(purple), portable generator(dark red) and jerry cans(bright red at rear), and other stuff. 2 standard 40# propane tanks fit under the front dome along side the spare tire. The water heater, and water boiler for heating are the same and designed to bottom exhaust their combustion gasses. Unfortunately they are about 4 times the cost of side exhaust ones. The generator garage is sized to house a Honda 3000is generator, and 4 jerry cans for additional gas storage. No you can't run the generator in the garage... The garage needs to be taller than the normal basement area so it goes up to the height of the bed platform. Both the garage and basement areas are heated for winter camping. The battery area will also be heated, but it doesn't have as good insulation on the wheel well sides. Just fitted in foam blocks. They need to be removable for service of the axle. It also needs to be vented for hydrogen gas build-up during charging.

I didn't get much beyond these sketches because ME/CFS started cramping what I could do in a day. Someday I may finish the design.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

heck, I'd just like to find a place to sell finished nidacore panels...

 

[Patineto]

I figured it wouldn't be much issue to home make panels up to 12' x 7'. You may want a friend or two to help with the larger layups. That is big enough for this small hard sided pop-up trailer with all the creature comforts for two.

Lowered for transport, tow vehicle is a 2nd gen 4Runner.
View attachment 1385946
The front and rear streamlining would be fiberglass formed over foam. The main body area is all SIP panel construction.

Lifted for use.
View attachment 1385947

inside with top and wall removed.
View attachment 1385948

Modules for sinks and tables are mounted to the walls using shelf brackets, then stored on the floor during transport. The tile floor area is a shower drain floor. A shower curtain and shower head can be hanged from the ceiling. The toilet is vacuum flush. They are low water use and actually work. A chest type cooler for refrigeration. The top is planned to be covered with solar panels. It wouldn't be enough for air-conditioning, but could easily provide all other domestic uses. An air-conditioner is tucked under the front dome. The tail cone has storage built into it that can be accessed from the inside. Tire size is 32x10R15 like used on my 4Runner. It also has a clear 10" of ground clearance. The wheel well is covered so the inside of the lifted wall doesn't get dirty.

View attachment 1385949
The main frame is sandwiched into the basement floor so it doesn't take up basement space. The space between the main floor and basement floor is used for storage of water (sea green), gray water (light gray), black water tank and vacuum flush system(dark gray), a battery bank (yellow), water heater(purple), water boiler for heating(purple), portable generator(dark red) and jerry cans(bright red at rear), and other stuff. 2 standard 40# propane tanks fit under the front dome along side the spare tire. The water heater, and water boiler for heating are the same and designed to bottom exhaust their combustion gasses. Unfortunately they are about 4 times the cost of side exhaust ones. The generator garage is sized to house a Honda 3000is generator, and 4 jerry cans for additional gas storage. No you can't run the generator in the garage... The garage needs to be taller than the normal basement area so it goes up to the height of the bed platform. Both the garage and basement areas are heated for winter camping. The battery area will also be heated, but it doesn't have as good insulation on the wheel well sides. Just fitted in foam blocks. They need to be removable for service of the axle. It also needs to be vented for hydrogen gas build-up during charging.

I didn't get much beyond these sketches because ME/CFS started cramping what I could do in a day. Someday I may finish the design.

And then you wonder why Unicats start at half a million, lifting four corners at unison is extremely difficult, wind deflection, dust, even thermal expantion play A part.

Something like this is far simpler to accomplish, single pivot, very rigid, much much easier, self guided, gravity powered

Unicats use four (sometimes even six or 8 sincronize lift motors, the precision require is insane...

Just remember trucks like Unicats, are planes, planes that just don't fly.

 

[Bogo]

heck, I'd just like to find a place to sell finished nidacore panels...

That seams to be the problem here in the US. At least as of 5 years ago nobody wanted to sell them to the end user. Cut kits for an RV manufacturer, or truck loads of panels. The SIP panels I could find for end user purchase were thin, and intended for sign construction. That's why I looked into making them myself.

There are good tutorials on doing vacuum bagging on the net so I won't tell how. I will mention that the batting material between the bag, and the polypropylene sheet is vital. It is what allows air to be sucked out and transfers the outside air pressure to the part.

What I expect for layup of materials.

1. vacuum bag sheet
2. air ducting if needed
   
3. batting material
4. polypropylene sheet
5. inside surface material, metal or FRP
6. glue
7. core materials, foam, wood, etc.
8. glue
9. outside surface material, metal or FRP
10. polypropylene sheet
11. vacuum table

On large buildups the time needed to place the core materials may be to long for the glue. Partial layups can be done with vacuum bagging. This is done all the time when making plywood boat hulls. Think of a sheet of plywood in the shape of a boat hull. While it should be possible to fit conduits for wiring into the core materials quickly, it may be easier to do the exterior plus core foam and wood layup. Then route out the conduit slots and fit filler foam after vacuum bagging them. Then the interior surface and be glued in place and vacuum bagged.

For wiring, it should be possible to just cut a slit into the foam, and push wires down into it. The problem with that is then you have to have junction boxes at panel joins to connect the wires together. Also new wire adding or wire replacement is impossible. For carefully placed conduits one can just connect into the next. If you do have junction boxes, they are just for ease of routing wires with no splices there.

Inside and outside aluminum and FRP sheets. Sadly this is an area where we have issues getting the good stuff with the good passivated paint coatings that are glue compatible. It is possible to get rolled up RV roof aluminum sheet that is already painted white and protected for corrosion. Any RV repair place should have it. Finding one willing to sell you some is the trick. Fortunately there are places on the net that will. It will likely be truck ship due to the size of the resulting roll. I figured on spray painting to my preferred color after assembly. I did run across a supplier that would sell FRP sheet in single custom length and width rolls with any of their color selection. I wasn't able to find my notes on them.

Aluminum diamond plate is available in sheet or roll depending on the thickness. I've seen it in up to 12' by 5' sheets. For my tiny travel trailer design I figured on butt joining two sheets to make the basement floor. I'd use a 4" wide strip of the same thickness aluminum on the back side with VHB tape to join the pieces.

Panels can be laid up with a bit extra width and length, then routed down to size after gluing up. The only times this is an issue is if you are planning on bending the exterior sheet around the edge, then overlapping it onto the joining panel or embedded something like wires that go through the edges of the panel. Conduits can be routed off at the panel edge.

There are more things I figured out in my explorations. I'll post some of them later.

 

[Bogo]

And then you wonder why Unicats start at half a million, lifting four corners at unison is extremely difficult, wind deflection, dust, even thermal expantion play A part.

Something like this is far simpler to accomplish, single pivot, very rigid, much much easier, self guided, gravity powered

Unicats use four (sometimes even six or 8 sincronize lift motors, the precision require is insane...

Just remember trucks like Unicats, are planes, planes that just don't fly.

Lifting isn't that hard. The commodity pop-up trailer industry has figured it out. I figured on using the spring in tube method to lift the top. It's weight plus the weight of the middle section will cause it to drop when the springs are retracted. If needed a cable can be strung in the middle of the spring to pull the top down when the springs are retracted. The middle section would then be kept level using a clever bicycle chain system that is driven by the change in distance between the top and bottom.

 

[Patineto]

Lifting isn't that hard. The commodity pop-up trailer industry has figured it out. I figured on using the spring in tube method to lift the top. It's weight plus the weight of the middle section will cause it to drop when the springs are retracted. If needed a cable can be strung in the middle of the spring to pull the top down when the springs are retracted. The middle section would then be kept level using a clever bicycle chain system that is driven by the change in distance between the top and bottom.

Agree, this is very basic set up. For the same reason bullet proof simple and reliable...

For example I help my friend Mark with his ogtamug, for a long time..

He is a master of getting things for free "SeMA truck" including the truck box, but sincerely besides the material, the box was a piece of junk...

To pretend to sell boxes like this, is far more than a provide just the panels, it need to be design and sold as a system but sincerely I don't think the market to sustain the R&D cost...

 

[Patineto]

I'm not a composites guru by any extend but I'm being making foam/balsa core structures since I was 14 or so..

I think the main problem is to try to make a extendable roof on the cheap, is a complicated process that require really high skills and tons of plannning (fixtures, female molds, the exact blue prints need to be ready before the construction starts..)


Interesting topic for sure..

 

[Hiace4wd]

Friends of us (in Germany) are having a box built by a small company that specializes in building boxes for travelers. It is for their Unimog.
No lift system or anything, but a box made specific for this customer. It is expensive but apparently not too expensive for the small market of people who travel like this.
I've also seen people buying old freezer boxes, and modify that for camper use. Isolation value is already fine of course.

On the raising/lifting topic: I think the usage of fabric would make design much easier. However, it would not be suitable for all weather conditions, so therefore you shouldn't rely on it. But I guess 90 to 95% of the time it can be used.

I'm looking at these thin sandwich panels as interior panels. Together with an aluminium beam construction.
So just 3 or 4mm panels. Advantages compared to wood are lighter weight, sturdier construction (with aluminium frame) and (almost) no issues with humidity/water or expanding and shrinking because of temperature.
These sandwich panels are called ACP or Dibond, and available. The Dibond is pretty expensive, but doable.

For building a box I guess you could use the companies that deliver these sandwhich panels for cooling installations. Since they deal in bigger numbers, price may not have to be an issue.

 

[Patineto]

THe missing link...

For a "foam core" box you need a "floating" interface, the truck chassis will flex regarless and the box will not cope with it.

This aluminum "middle bed" is the one that provides the rigidity for the box, still pretty light and low...

Back pivot member..

Front mounts (2 of them)

 

[Bogo]

One thing I've consistently done is looked at how manufacturers have made their products. My designs have been in line with what they have done. My adding the cable to the spring in tube method allows for forced down which the original spring method doesn't have. Still the overall lift method is tried and true. All the parts can be made out of off the shelf parts with simple milling. Another thing is many motor lift mechanisms only can extend up to just under 2X the lift mechanism's retracted length. I need 3X. There are multi stage hydraulic rams, but dividers to send the same fluid amount to each cylinder mostly suck. So it isn't an option without an active controller.

The area I'm worried most about is the middle section. It only has 4 sides of which one is incomplete, and no diagonal bracing. The top and bottom both have diagonal bracing. When I'm building the panels I have to make them properly flat. That might not allow two layups. I may have to bond both faces at the same time. Also different temperatures inside and out can make the panels bow. The middle section doesn't have any way of resisting bowing, except for it's top and bottom edges which will have aluminum bar and angle stock used to make them. I may also have to add internal I beams. I may use FRP bar and angle stock as a test to see if it works. The stuff is expensive compared to aluminum but will have much lower thermal conductivity. Having 2" thick walls will help make them stiffer. I realized 1" or 1.5" was to thin to allow for commercial made double pane window installation. Then I found a place that sells the right edpm window mouldings, and another that sold opening and closing mechanisms. From there it became easy to make my own window frame as part of the wall. Doing my own windows allows them to be flush with the outside surface of the wall.

I'm also using not custom extrusions, because I don't have the budget to have them made. All my parts have to be common off the shelf products or modified from them. I've had to resort to combing channels, angles and flats to get the shapes I need. The other thing I'm doing is making sure everything I do is able to be done with relatively simple methods that can be done in a small shop space.

 

[Patineto]

One thing I've consistently done is looked at how manufacturers have made their products. My designs have been in line with what they have done. My adding the cable to the spring in tube method allows for forced down which the original spring method doesn't have. Still the overall lift method is tried and true. All the parts can be made out of off the shelf parts with simple milling. Another thing is many motor lift mechanisms only can extend up to just under 2X the lift mechanism's retracted length. I need 3X. There are multi stage hydraulic rams, but dividers to send the same fluid amount to each cylinder mostly suck. So it isn't an option without an active controller.

LINEAR SCREWS for CNC TABLES Can be found 10' and even longer and they are extremely precise in terms of sincronization...

The area I'm worried most about is the middle section. It only has 4 sides of which one is incomplete, and no diagonal bracing. The top and bottom both have diagonal bracing. When I'm building the panels I have to make them properly flat. That might not allow two layups. I may have to bond both faces at the same time. Also different temperatures inside and out can make the panels bow. The middle section doesn't have any way of resisting bowing, except for it's top and bottom edges which will have aluminum bar and angle stock used to make them. I may also have to add internal I beams. I may use FRP bar and angle stock as a test to see if it works. The stuff is expensive compared to aluminum but will have much lower thermal conductivity. Having 2" thick walls will help make them stiffer. I realized 1" or 1.5" was to thin to allow for commercial made double pane window installation. Then I found a place that sells the right edpm window mouldings, and another that sold opening and closing mechanisms. From there it became easy to make my own window frame as part of the wall. Doing my own windows allows them to be flush with the outside surface of the wall.

I'm also using not custom extrusions, because I don't have the budget to have them made. All my parts have to be common off the shelf products or modified from them. I've had to resort to combing channels, angles and flats to get the shapes I need. The other thing I'm doing is making sure everything I do is able to be done with relatively simple methods that can be done in a small shop space.

Your lifting rams/pistons/whatever don't need to be located at the edges of the box.

If you divide the space in three (like the Golden Gate Bridge) the structure will be far more stable and compact..


Ps; the box on the 'octamog" has two inch walls and even then produce massive harmonic vibrations, to the point we end up strapping it diagonally with two 4" truck ratchet strap.

 

[Bogo]

LINEAR SCREWS for CNC TABLES Can be found 10' and even longer and they are extremely precise in terms of sincronization...

I know about them and have used them in projects in the past. I'd need to use a set for each section I raise because of the actuator length. That likely means 8 lift units for my design. Each one would need it's own geared down motor to drive it, unless I used something like a bicycle chain to link units together. Each non linked group would have to be coordinated, but that can be done with low resolution encoders and a microcontroller.

In fact my spring in tube method uses a linear screw drive to put pressure on 4 springs to lift the top. Bent tubes direct the springs to the 4 corners where the tube directs the force up to lift the top. Telescoping tube sections that extend as the top raises keep the springs captive so they can't head off in the wrong directions and fail to lift the top. Because one unit of movement on the linear screw end of the spring is translated to one unit of top lift, all 4 corners move up together by the same amount. The length of the linear screw drive minus a few inches sets the length the top can be lifted. The screw drive can be driven by a motor, or even a hand crank.

If you are wondering how a spring can be used to transfer motion. Not all springs are wound the same. Instead of having gaps between the windings, the springs used for lifting a top like this have the windings of the coils touching. That means when you push on one end of the spring along the length of the spring, the spring can't compress, so the other end moves by the amount you pushed on it. The tubes contain the spring and direct the motion to where it can do useful work.

Your lifting rams/pistons/whatever don't need to be located at the edges of the box.

If you divide the space in three (like the Golden Gate Bridge) the structure will be far more stable and compact..

First off the golden gate bridge is anchored at both ends. Structure and engineering are totally different than needed for a tiny travel trailer.

I have most of my lifted weight at the ends in both the storage area inside the tail section at the back, and the air-conditioner mounted under the aerodynamic dome in the front. I hadn't yet decided on locations for the lifters, but at the corners or near the ends on the sides are most likely. When lifted, the sections will be latched in place. The

Ps; the box on the 'octamog" has two inch walls and even then produce massive harmonic vibrations, to the point we end up strapping it diagonally with two 4" truck ratchet strap.

I'll have to see what happens with vibrations. My sides while in motion are 1/3rd the height of yours so vibrations will be at other frequencies. I have latches planned to hold the bottom edges of the top section tight to the bottom.

 

[Patineto]

More "concept" but the alternatives are endless...

 

[Patineto]

First off the golden gate bridge is anchored at both ends. Structure and engineering are totally different than needed for a tiny travel trailer.

I have most of my lifted weight at the ends in both the storage area inside the tail section at the back, and the air-conditioner mounted under the aerodynamic dome in the front. I hadn't yet decided on locations for the lifters, but at the corners or near the ends on the sides are most likely. When lifted, the sections will be latched in place. The


.

DOH....

REALLY.....

I was just trying to use the simplest of examples...

Dividing the structure in segments (about three segment, but more by the location of the mass than the pfisical measuments)

This way the "outriggers" counter weight and help keeping the pilar stable with less gussets and reinforcements..

Win-Win.

 

[Hiace4wd]

I wanted to do something like this with our current van, not gonna do it though. But maybe in future with a next van.

 

[Patineto]

I wanted to do something like this with our current van, not gonna do it though. But maybe in future with a next van.

Incredible engendering but it my opinion such a waste or resources...

That slider most be about 2/5 the mass of the van, specially since the same task can be accomplish with a elegant "tension-compression" structure)

Even the legs are oriented the wrong way (first a very wide spread tripod will be more stable, then 'sky's" to folllow the terrain better) or even a landing gear will be more useful) and with out much range of adjustment

what is the game, to not touch that delicious grass at all cost...??

 

[Hiace4wd]

Yeah, I guess you don't know the British and their fondness of nicely cut grass
(the van must have been lifted into place using a helicopter hehe)

I think also the company didn't survive unfortunately. But I would like this as a smaller addon, wouldn't have to be so heavy. I don't think it would be 2/5 the mass, that would be like 700kg or something. (the tailgate was there anyway, they could have even replaced it with it plastic lighter one)