Oil Change Interval (2 Viewers)

[Jetboy]

2 of the million mile tundras I know of were hot shot trucks. They were towing and hauling many or most of the miles. But they also likely had a lot of highway miles too.

I think the extreme duty would be pulling big stuff or lots of miles in 4lo. I know that the guidance is vague and could be anything. But I think it really means non typical heavy use. That's why, IMO mpg compared to EPA estimate is the best bet for estimating oil life. With better tracking and a more complex algorithm there are probably better ways, but MPG is the best measure of engine operating conditions over a longer time period I know of. I'm sure it under-represents the idle time problem, but otherwise I think it generally tracks with engine load and is highly correlated with oil wear.

It won't hurt anything to change as often as every day. I just don't think it's providing a ton of benefit the lifespan of the engine. The forums have a lot of first oil change tests from Blackstone on GR engines at 5-10k miles. Most of them under 10k say "looks good, you can go longer next time" and the 10k reports say "looks good." I've never seen one that said the engine oil was run too long. They might exist. I just haven't seen it. I'm not sure I've ever seen or heard of a 1GR actually wearing out. It probably does eventually. Just haven't seen reports of worn bearings or bushings. But, 5k oil changes isn't going to be harmful to anything but your wallet. If the piece of mind is worth it, do it!

 

[mjosoba]

2 of the million mile tundras I know of were hot shot trucks. They were towing and hauling many or most of the miles. But they also likely had a lot of highway miles too.

I think the extreme duty would be pulling big stuff or lots of miles in 4lo. I know that the guidance is vague and could be anything. But I think it really means non typical heavy use. That's why, IMO mpg compared to EPA estimate is the best bet for estimating oil life. With better tracking and a more complex algorithm there are probably better ways, but MPG is the best measure of engine operating conditions over a longer time period I know of. I'm sure it under-represents the idle time problem, but otherwise I think it generally tracks with engine load and is highly correlated with oil wear.

It won't hurt anything to change as often as every day. I just don't think it's providing a ton of benefit the lifespan of the engine. The forums have a lot of first oil change tests from Blackstone on GR engines at 5-10k miles. Most of them under 10k say "looks good, you can go longer next time" and the 10k reports say "looks good." I've never seen one that said the engine oil was run too long. They might exist. I just haven't seen it. I'm not sure I've ever seen or heard of a 1GR actually wearing out. It probably does eventually. Just haven't seen reports of worn bearings or bushings. But, 5k oil changes isn't going to be harmful to anything but your wallet. If the piece of mind is worth it, do it!

I’ve never heard of a 1/2 ton being used in a hot shot scenario, but I guess if it’s light stuff it would be an excellent platform. I will just continue doing it at 5k intervals. All the cars we own do better at that than at 7500 or 10k. And with how cheap I can get filters and oil, it’s really a no brainer to me, even if the only benefit is psychosomatic. .

 

[Jetboy]

I’ve never heard of a 1/2 ton being used in a hot shot scenario, but I guess if it’s light stuff it would be an excellent platform. I will just continue doing it at 5k intervals. All the cars we own do better at that than at 7500 or 10k. And with how cheap I can get filters and oil, it’s really a no brainer to me, even if the only benefit is psychosomatic. .

I think both of the first two million mile gen 2 tundras were oil industry hot shot trucks. IIRC they were sold at the same dealership in Houston.

They look like oil field trucks by the looks of the beds. This one looks like it was rhino lined on top of the rhino lining? Not sure what's going on there. The owner said he had the transmission rebuilt once, but turns out it probably just needed the trans oil changed. Which I'd guess means that he had never changed it at 700k or whatever it was that it started shifting poorly? Not sure what to read into that.

 

[mjosoba]

Finally showed up! 7 miles on the ODO.

Edit: One of the sales guys also said any maintenance I do myself voids the warranty. . I’ll have to look into that, doesn’t seem quite right but who knows. So maybe I’ll be stuck with 10k OCI’s.

 

[jayp2]

Finally showed up! 7 miles on the ODO.


Edit: One of the sales guys also said any maintenance I do myself voids the warranty. . I’ll have to look into that, doesn’t seem quite right but who knows. So maybe I’ll be stuck with 10k OCI’s.

Thats complete and utter bull**** (in the US)

You changing your own oil is totally legit and doesnt/cant void the warranty so long as you keep records and reciepts and do it correctly (tough to screw up)

 

[mjosoba]

Thats complete and utter bulls*** (in the US)

You changing your own oil is totally legit and doesnt/cant void the warranty so long as you keep records and reciepts and do it correctly (tough to screw up)

That’s what I figured. I forgot to mention (maybe I did earlier) that it’s a lease, but I don’t see how it could change it. And yeah… tough to mess up. I’ve done it once (double o-ring) and now I quadruple check everything. .

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

That’s what I figured. I forgot to mention (maybe I did earlier) that it’s a lease, but I don’t see how it could change it. And yeah… tough to mess up. I’ve done it once (double o-ring) and now I quadruple check everything. .

Unless you plan to buy at the end of the lease, why bother? That is their problem. Just do their schedule.

 

[mjosoba]

Unless you plan to buy at the end of the lease, why bother? That is their problem. Just do their schedule.

Well… like I said in the first post. Yeah, we’ll prob keep it. And I don’t want to do their schedule.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

Well… like I said in the first post. Yeah, we’ll prob keep it. And I don’t want to do their schedule.

My bad for not remember what you said a month ago.

 

[dylans]

2013 Trail, 88k miles. Not high mileage but I do have very diverse use. It’s been a AZ truck it’s whole life ie hot and dry summers and dusty driving. All maintenance done by myself at home.

It’s been a DD since I bought it, traveled extensively off-road mild and harsh from deep sand to rocks and been on several week or more long road trips covering thousands of miles loaded with my family and their things and camping supplies. It’s got a 2.5 in lift with heavy duty aftermarket UCAs and IMS shocks, full steel sliders and an ARB front bumper weighing 200lbs. It’s been through different tires including E load 255/80s weighing 58lbs each. Full length roof rack? Been there. Rode with that for quite a while and went back to stock due to lack of enough use to justify keeping that heavy thing up there 24/7.

10k oil changes here and not a single issue ever. It also has never burned a noticeable amount of oil and I do check between changes. Gasp! I’ve never even sent off an oil sample to Blackstone. And I don’t plan on it.

Sure oil is cheap but the waste… kind of like eating 50% of a meal every meal and throwing the rest away. Why??

These 4Runners are top of the game as far as reliability and simplicity goes. Do some reading about the 1GR-FE. This motor is strong and tolerant. There are many documented cases of 5th gen 4Runners above 300k miles with 10k oil changes. And each one produced can do that by design. Do some learning about this motors history and its use around the world. They put it in Land Cruisers in markets that are in some of the harshest places. More harsh a life and use I’d wager than so many of our 4Runners experience here in the US. In fact the 5th gen 4runner is based off of the LC Prado. It’s a legend.

I don’t believe in corporate conspiracy theories about service intervals and hidden trap meanings and definitions of severe duty or light duty. Toyota has a pretty outstanding history of actually making good vehicles, and not surprising since their cultural and social values are engrained in those good vehicles from design to manufacture. I think they’re actually proud of what they make. It’s like they’re not only financially invested but personally as well! Wow! Do some reading about Toyota and their history if you don’t know much. Learn about how they operate and how important it is to them to produce reliable and quality vehicles. It’s not too good to be true. After a lifetime so far of Toyotas in my family and putting all the pieces together and paying attention and learning about who they are compared to their competitors… Toyota and their engineers have my trust. I sleep sooo easy at night never worrying about oil composition after a cold start stop start hot summer short trip tow a boat in a headwind drive down a dirt road and at what mileage is the motor gonna blow if I don’t use a diaper to clean the filter housing? These aren’t Dodges or Fords or Subarus. They’re Toyotas and you can literally just get in them and drive them worry free. Cool huh?!

And I do not mean to imply that you’re being so exaggerated or fussy as my jabs at the topic might imply. It’s just a topic I think is pretty big these days and equally pretty silly. But this is to share and add to the conversation my personal view on it all and my own personal use and practices. I wouldn’t necessarily tell anyone not to do 5k changes. It’s your car! Fret less and pend less where you can, find some piece of mind and just get out there!

 

[Rednexus]

The Toyota owners manual is pretty clear - even in our Highlander Hybrid with electric assist. A 5K oil change is required for frequent short trips, stop/go traffic, towing, dusty conditions, etc. Basically anything that is not interstate cruising. That's the word directly from Mr. T. If you are driving your loaded 4Runner off-road, in dusty conditions, and doing 10K oil changes, you are outside of the Toyota recommendation. You may not have a problem at 88K, but by the time you are at 188K the inside of your engine will start to develop varnish and deposits at a higher rate than a 5K change engine that never gets the cooked, worn down oil inside it.

A DIY oil change costs around $35 for one of these, with Mobil 1 full-synthetic and a Denso/Toyota oil filter, and takes 15-20 minutes. Over a 100K ownership period that adds up to $350 in extra oil changes, for a rig that most of us have $30-70K invested in. Pennies for peace of mind and being consistent with the OEM service recommendations.

 

[mjosoba]

@dylans (Edit at the end( I hear you. I’m very familiar with Toyotas. Mostly 80 series, I’ve been driving them in both versions since the early 90’s. I’m also familiar with the culture and reputation of Toyota and the Prado/T4R line. I’ve never had a Toyota fail me mechanically, aside from my ‘94 HG, so I probably have similar feelings to you about their toughness and worldwide appeal. That being said, I’ll never be convinced that 10k changes will net the same longevity as 5k. . No offense, maybe I’m old school. Just my opinion. Edit: Most of my feelings in this area come from my experience with diesel trucks, our Subaru, my old Honda, my moms current Camry Hybrid. All of these vehicles benefit from shorter changes and burn less oil with them. The Subaru and Camry both burned more than a quart with longer changes. Once they started adding EGR systems, all that crap gets dumped into the oil. It’s just not good IMO. Your experience seems quite different, I appreciate the well crafted response.

@Rednexus I tend toward your way of thinking. And all other points aside, it’s not like it’s going to be worse for the engine. I can get 6 gallons of FS 0w-20 from work for $70. It’s a good oil, and it’s the same oil that the dealership we bought it from uses, I deliver it, so I’ll just plan on doing it that way.

 

[Rednexus]

I also do things like change my gear oil yearly (the front and rear diffs always have some evidence of water contamination due to frequent creek crossings - despite having extended breathers) and changing my transmission fluid every 30-45K (as I tow a lot). All pretty simple DIY stuff to do. The used fluids get dropped off at my local Autozone where they get recycled. With tens of Ks and hundreds of my personal hours turning wrenches invested in my rig I want it to be still going strong 10 years from now.

 

[dylans]

@dylans (Edit at the end( I hear you. I’m very familiar with Toyotas. Mostly 80 series, I’ve been driving them in both versions since the early 90’s. I’m also familiar with the culture and reputation of Toyota and the Prado/T4R line. I’ve never had a Toyota fail me mechanically, aside from my ‘94 HG, so I probably have similar feelings to you about their toughness and worldwide appeal. That being said, I’ll never be convinced that 10k changes will net the same longevity as 5k. . No offense, maybe I’m old school. Just my opinion. Edit: Most of my feelings in this area come from my experience with diesel trucks, our Subaru, my old Honda, my moms current Camry Hybrid. All of these vehicles benefit from shorter changes and burn less oil with them. The Subaru and Camry both burned more than a quart with longer changes. Once they started adding EGR systems, all that crap gets dumped into the oil. It’s just not good IMO. Your experience seems quite different, I appreciate the well crafted response.

@Rednexus I tend toward your way of thinking. And all other points aside, it’s not like it’s going to be worse for the engine. I can get 6 gallons of FS 0w-20 from work for $70. It’s a good oil, and it’s the same oil that the dealership we bought it from uses, I deliver it, so I’ll just plan on doing it that way.

No offense at all! I’ve thought about the 5k changes a lot and maybe I’ll climb aboard one day, who knows. I can’t and won’t argue that it definitely doesn’t hurt the engine. I do of course stick to all other fluid changes as well per recommendation and my particular use. I do wish my use fell under the heavy or severe duty criteria set in my maintenance manual, it’d mean I’m getting out more and that’s really what matters in the end. I guess all that hangs me up is the feeling of waste and the wallet aspect despite how affordable it can be. Admittedly, my oil changes are relatively costly by choice. I only use Toyota fluids and they come at a higher cost. No real particular reason other than what makes me feel good, just stuck in my ways. I don’t have a hold of any info or real data to show supremacy but I never wanted to go down that hole. I’ve avoided bobistheoilguy because it gets heavy!

If I ever did switch to 5k, I’d still use Toyota oil though. But I also do this with many many other parts… I recently lamented not being able to buy OEM fender liners after needing new ones… I tried to find them but ended up with some generic ones at a quarter of the cost. Bitter sweet and I’m learning to let go!

 

[dylans]

2 of the million mile tundras I know of were hot shot trucks. They were towing and hauling many or most of the miles. But they also likely had a lot of highway miles too.

I think the extreme duty would be pulling big stuff or lots of miles in 4lo. I know that the guidance is vague and could be anything. But I think it really means non typical heavy use. That's why, IMO mpg compared to EPA estimate is the best bet for estimating oil life. With better tracking and a more complex algorithm there are probably better ways, but MPG is the best measure of engine operating conditions over a longer time period I know of. I'm sure it under-represents the idle time problem, but otherwise I think it generally tracks with engine load and is highly correlated with oil wear.

It won't hurt anything to change as often as every day. I just don't think it's providing a ton of benefit the lifespan of the engine. The forums have a lot of first oil change tests from Blackstone on GR engines at 5-10k miles. Most of them under 10k say "looks good, you can go longer next time" and the 10k reports say "looks good." I've never seen one that said the engine oil was run too long. They might exist. I just haven't seen it. I'm not sure I've ever seen or heard of a 1GR actually wearing out. It probably does eventually. Just haven't seen reports of worn bearings or bushings. But, 5k oil changes isn't going to be harmful to anything but your wallet. If the piece of mind is worth it, do it!

Speaking to the mpg thing, I average 18 to 19 per tank. Calculated with the trip meter and gallons filled. Stock tire size. I drive pretty conservatively, it’s a pig by nature and with extra pounds too. The fuel math speaks though. If my mpg is good that thought on oil life may hold up to my 10k intervals. Interesting to read about, thanks!

 

[Devils Paw 80]

The Toyota owners manual is pretty clear - even in our Highlander Hybrid with electric assist. A 5K oil change is required for frequent short trips, stop/go traffic, towing, dusty conditions, etc. Basically anything that is not interstate cruising. ..

So that would certainly apply for driving around here since all trips are short, except it would take 2 years to achieve that mileage. Does this direction specify a time period as an alternative, such as 5K miles or every year, which ever comes first?

 

[Jetboy]

Finally showed up! 7 miles on the ODO.

View attachment 3324298

Edit: One of the sales guys also said any maintenance I do myself voids the warranty. . I’ll have to look into that, doesn’t seem quite right but who knows. So maybe I’ll be stuck with 10k OCI’s.

Looks great. From my experience - it'll be so reliable the only reason you might eventually sell it because you'll get bored and want to try something new. Then you'll likely regret selling it and start looking for another one. haha.

 

[mjosoba]

Looks great. From my experience - it'll be so reliable the only reason you might eventually sell it because you'll get bored and want to try something new. Then you'll likely regret selling it and start looking for another one. haha.

Thanks! I actually have never really looked into these too much. I’ve always been an 80 series LC guy. But I’ve got three friends with 5th gens, one being a jeep convert. I also owned an 87 T4R and enjoyed it. This was my wife’s pick. I’m just glad she likes it! We had an LR3 but we got rid of it with about 140k. Problem free. I expect the same of this!

 

[Jetboy]

I've shared this video before on other threads on MUD, but it's great if you haven't seen it. Although I had a TRD OR model - I think you'll be surprised at just how good it is in totally stock SR5 form with ATRAC. It really impressed me. Unfortunately the ATRAC in my Tundra is crap - it's not even close to how good the version is in the 4Runner. There are certainly times where real lockers are better, but it's probably 95% of the way there without them.

 

[Rednexus]

So that would certainly apply for driving around here since all trips are short, except it would take 2 years to achieve that mileage. Does this direction specify a time period as an alternative, such as 5K miles or every year, which ever comes first?

If I had a rig that got 2,500-miles per year I'd probably change the oil 1X or 2X a year. Would really depend on if it is something like 8 miles a day (maybe change every 6 months?) or ten 250 mile trips per year (would probably change yearly).

With lots of short trips the oil can build up a lot of water in it, since the engine never really gets hot enough for it to burn off.

FYI - visited Juneau for work back in October. Beautiful city! Tons of Toyotas and Subarus running around.