Odd Starting problem 97 4Runner

[zetasig]

Okay, I roam around the 40 board most often.

since the 40s engine is 27years older this newer 1997 motor has thrown me for a loop here.

1997 4Runner, 149,000 miles.
All stock V6 auto.

This is the wifes car with two kiddos so I need to get this worked out.

Background, about a month ago I took the car through the auto car wash and paid the buck extra for the rocker blast. Not 2 days later the truck would not start up sitting cold in the driveway. Turn the key and nothing. absolutly dead. Clock shuts down no lights etc. Let up on the key, clock comes back on and radio works.

I think this happend once too with my 97 Taco.
So I crawled under and undid the cable which supplies power to the starter on the 4Runner, Cleaned the contact there with sand paper and bolted everything back down, put the dust cap back on and it ran fine for last 3 weeks. 4 days ago I tried to start it and very very slowly the engine turned over. I replaced the battery with an auto drone one about 6 years ago. So no big deal. I get a diehard gold a few days ago and put that in. Nice clean contacts etc. Truck starts fine for 3 days.

Today I turn the key over and same problem. totally dead when I turn the key to the start position. I try it a few more times and the engine turns over and finally starts. There is not even any clicking like a solinoid.

I replaced the OEM ignition about a year ago. From Napa and it looks to be another OEM, at least it has OEM keys, So I dont think thats the problem. The battery is charged since it turns over fine after trying to start it a few times.

I am wondering if its the solinoid contacts? or maybe a bad starter. What do you all think. Basically when I turn the key over all power just stops, nothing is getting to the starter. but then I re try it a few times and it works.

If I remove the starter can I just replace the solinoid on it. or whats the deal.

Thanks as always.

 

[KliersLC]

Likely the starter contacts. They are about 8 bucks at Kragen, but I hear the 3.0 starter R&R is not fun.....

 

[underthehood]

How do you know that the power is lost at the starter? Small wire or big wire? If the signal is lost to the small wire then your problem might lie in the neutral safety switch, wiring or ignition switch. BTW most cars lose signal temporarily to accessories in the crank mode. A wiring diagram and a test probe will find the problem. Next time the truck doesnt start try jumping the small wire to the big wire at the starter. A small screwdriver works well. Sometimes there are two small wires, one is for the cold start injector. Jumping that will not start the truck. If you dont know which is which then try both separately. Be careful not to touch the screwdriver to ground(starter housing, engine block, etc....). If it starts then the starter and the connections from the battery to the starter are o.k. Your problem lies in the ignition side of the circuit. Good luck.

 

[zetasig]

I think power is being lost at the starter as everything works just fine until I turn the key over to actually start the truck (crank mode). open the door lights come on etc, radio works all is well. As soon as the key hits that last 1/4 inch to engage the starter then everything dies as if there is no battery in the car at all. It happened twice this am. But I can let up on the key and re try it and it starts just fine. It is at the instant when it goes to Crank mode that everything dies, and there is silence nothing happens as long as I have the key turned all the way.. Its like it just shut down. The starter is not even engaging.

I have never had to play with the gear shift or rack it back into neutral or park to get it to start.

The wire I cleaned on the starter was the big one. toward the bottom. and yes this looks to be a huge PITA to pull the starter. Like step one is take off the passenger front wheel.


I am going to pull the starter this morning. and take it to the parts store and have it tested. If that checks out okay start looking closer at the wiring.

I will keep you posted.

 

[zetasig]

Good god man, How do you get the starter out side of the truck??? My arms and hands are like hamburger and I cant figure out how to actually remove the starter.

Anyone. I have read on the 4x4s you can remove the front passenger wheel and get it out that way with some twist and turns. No way in hell can it fit between the ATF dipstick, the RF ABS hard line junction line (which I broke this morning) and the upper control arm.

ANYONE ever removed the starter from their 4 runner. What gives.

As a side note after punching some stuff I bolted the starter back up and tried to see if any difference was made. Now I just get a click when turned to the start mode. but nothing actually getting to spin the starter.

Do you now think the starter is bad. HELP.

 

[toyminator]

Before you remove the starter I would check all connections to the alternator too. There are two connections for a total of 3 wires I think. I only say this because you said that the lights and clock go out when trying to start.

Anyway, removing the starter can be a PIA but it can be done through the wheel well. MAKE SURE YOU DISCONNECT THE BATTERY BEFORE YOU TRY REMOVING THE STARTER. After all, you're removing a starter, not welding. You should be able to remove the top half of the ATF dipstick tube by removing the bolt that holds it on. I can't remember if its bolted to the exhaust manifold or the transmission but once you remove the bolt it should pull right out. This should allow you to remove the starter. About the only thing that fails on a Toyota starter are the contacts or brushes in the solenoid. They can be rebuilt for really cheap. Here is a link to a step by step process on doing this. Its for a 4cyl starter so the part numbers may be different but the procedure is the same.

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/boophoenix/starter.html

If you do rebuild the starter only use Toyota parts or you will be doing it again in another 50,000 miles. Actually 149,000 seems a bit low to have to rebuild a Toyota starter. My 99 4Runner has 210,00 on it and still has the original. I guess it depends on how much "starts" it has on it.

Also, get some auto mechanics gloves to save your hands.

Good luck!

 

[zetasig]

Yes on all accounts, I ran across some good write ups, seems it just wasnt me who was frustrated by how to fit a shoe box through a hole the size of a match box. When I get it done I will post up the other write ups and such for future reference.


I have some craftsman gloves but just the contortion of everything has chewed my hands up and my arms too..

I bought some OEM Nippon Denso contacts today at a motor store. 7 bucks and some change. I will try to pull the starter out again in a little bit. and report back. Some have pulled the collector, some have pulled the sway link. most pulled the ATF tube. and brake junction. PITA.
Gotta get a brake line too for the one I busted today....

 

[zetasig]

Okay, well two steps forward one back.

The contacts seemed to do the trick, mine were pretty wore out. Half the thickness of new or less...

I ended up pulling the line to the rack and pinion on the passenger side. I did not pull the starter out of the vehicle, But was able to manuver it in such a way to replace the contacts right were the rack and pinion fluid line was.

Here is a pretty good write up from the yotatech board. Seems this is a common issue.

http://www.yotatech.com/f2/3rd-gen-3-4-auto-starter-removal-write-up-pic-heavy-105098/
http://www.yotatech.com/f2/3rd-gen-3-4-auto-starter-removal-write-up-pic-heavy-105098/index2.html

I still need a brake line and will get that tomorrow. Autodrone was closed.

Also I lost the fawking nut that holds the cable to the starter. had to pull one off of the FJ40 to get me by.

For 7 bucks it was a good fix at least it starts now. for the bloody knuckles. Swearing, throwing stuff, a brake line, and 8 hours of my day, I dont know. Lesson learned I suppose.

 

[gogle]

sorryto wake the dead...but I just removed my starter on my 96 runner...the contacts are shot...the question is do I replace the plunger? most people dont say they do...but I thought while I was in there it might be a good idea...what do you guys think? also are "contacts" all the same? or do I need to get them from the dealership? thanks in advance garth

 

[zetasig]

I did not replace the plunger. I have NOT had a single issue with the starter since Dec. of 2007. Same 4runner now has 150K on it. and Im elbows deep in a timing belt change.

Anyway. I got my contacts from an electric motor repair shop for like 8 bucks or so. They are standard nippon denso contacts. two of them. There area few photos floating around the net on what they look like. But The guy knew what I was talking about.

 

[gogle]

well...I guess contacts have gone up....so i went to the dealer...15 for contacts and 12 ish for the plunger...total of 28.&& out the door and she works GREAT!!! thanks!!!

 

[zetasig]

Not too bad considering what a new starter runs....

BTW, I never got the starter out of mine. I ended up putting in the new contacts with the starter still in the truck. Just dropped down over the rack and pinion.

Good to hear yours is working though...