No crank/no start after battery change (1 Viewer)

[Skrallan]

4.5 V8 diesel 2016 200 series.
One morning about a week ago, it decided not to start. I was offshore, so I got a friend to change the batteries, but i still would not start.
When I got back home, I changed the FOB batteries, just to be sure.

Before the batteries were changed, both FOBs worked. Now only one does.

Everything seems normal. I unlock the car, with the FOB. Push the brake, the ON button turns green, but nothing happens when I push it.
All lights, radio etc is working, but it is not cranking/starting.

I noticed that the immobilizer light is blinking, and never stops, no matter what I do.

Have tried with a jumper between 4 and 13 in the OBD2 plug, left in for 30-60mins, no success.
Checked all fuses/relays.
No corrotion/bad connections.
Had Toyota service plug their computer, but they could not find anything.

To me it seems, the issue is immobilizer related... or?

Thanks in advance.

 

[TheComedian]

Hm strange behavior. One thing I would try is disconnect both batteries and let it sit for like 15min and also press the start button to make sure the car is fully without power and then reconnect the battery so the car can fully initialize freshly.

Then you can check whether the ignition comes on. So without pressing the brake (or clutch if you have a manual one) pressing once, and then the second time. Also hold you keyfob to the starter button so you don’t have to care about if it is maybe the battery in the keyfob.
In the picture you see what I am talking about

I guess you don’t have a laptop or device with techstream to check how many keys are written into the ecu?

But anyways, I would try these steps first since a good amount of problems with the 200 can be solved with the good old car version of „did you try to turn it off and on again?“

Ohh an before I forget. There is something your coin cells up there in Denmark likely have as well as we have some kilometers more southern… did you check that you don’t have any coating left on them? They have often some kind of a bitter coating so kids don’t swallow them. Wipe them with isoprop or just scratch the surface were the keyfob touches them.

Oh and welcome at ih8Mud

 

[Skrallan]

Hm strange behavior. One thing I would try is disconnect both batteries and let it sit for like 15min and also press the start button to make sure the car is fully without power and then reconnect the battery so the car can fully initialize freshly.

Then you can check whether the ignition comes on. So without pressing the brake (or clutch if you have a manual one) pressing once, and then the second time. Also hold you keyfob to the starter button so you don’t have to care about if it is maybe the battery in the keyfob.
In the picture you see what I am talking about
View attachment 3927831

I guess you don’t have a laptop or device with techstream to check how many keys are written into the ecu?

But anyways, I would try these steps first since a good amount of problems with the 200 can be solved with the good old car version of „did you try to turn it off and on again?“

Ohh an before I forget. There is something your coin cells up there in Denmark likely have as well as we have some kilometers more southern… did you check that you don’t have any coating left on them? They have often some kind of a bitter coating so kids don’t swallow them. Wipe them with isoprop or just scratch the surface were the keyfob touches them.

Oh and welcome at ih8Mud

Thanks for your reply.

I disconnected both batteries last night and left them off overnight.
Nothing changed.

Even charged the old batteries and mounted them, still the same.

Cleaned off the keyfob batteries. Still only one connecting to the car.

When the Toyota tech was here with the laptop, we noticed that only one keyfob was registered...
Strange since two have been used until this happened.
He tried to get the second keyfob stored, but was not successful.


Status at the moment is the same.
I can unlock/lock it with the keyfob.
But it takes 2-3 clicks on lock/unlock buttons after entering the car, to get the START/STOP button to light up.
It does NOT say "Key not detected" but just stays off.
After a few pushes on the lock/unlock buttons, while sitting inside the vehicle, the START/STOP button lights up.

* First push on START button, brake not pushed.
The steering wheel moves into position and radio/screen starts. Dashboard stays dark. Red Immobilizer light blinking.

* Second push on START button, brake not pushed. Dashboard lights up. Immobilizer light still blinking.

* Pushing brake, START button turns green. Immobilizer light still blinking.
Brake lights on.
Can hear pump running, as brakepedal is pressed.

* Third push on START button, nothing changes. Immobilizer still blinking.
Not relay clicking.
Have measured voltage on ST relay, no voltage, meaning the relay does not get an order to start the engine.

To me it seems odd that the Immobilizer light never stops blinking.

Have checked two Prados today. There the Immobilizer light stops blinking as soon as you touch the START button the first time.....

Thanks for the welcome
Looks like an interesting forum with alot of knowledge!

 

[TheComedian]

Hm ok sounds rly strange that the other keys disappeared innthe system wich could maybe mean that the eprom on the key ECU has some problems that goes way above my knowledge.

When the Toyota tech tried newly teach the other keys at wich point did it fail? The last step were it says something like „put the key now on the passenger seat blablabla“? Because that could be a own problem by itself I experienced at my 200 after I lost my second key somewhere in the woods (jepp the car give a f if the key is around as long as it’s running already…). After lots of research I found the solution at a Prius forum. The key signals get detected by piezo elements wich are mounted on multiple points in the car lile the doors, in the trunk and there is also one in your middle dash. Mine got loos or the pre owner disconnected it ba accident. Everything was running smooth but it looks like this piezos only job is to verify the last step when teaching new keys.
If you open your cup holder and pull it out there should be some white lighter sized plastic thingie somewhere in the front direction with a plug. Easy to check within a minute. Btw when you ever get into the situation of readjusting your hand break that’s the spot…

let’s throw some other idea into the ring I have rn

I know it would be weird that the dead battery falls together with this but you didn’t use the car for some time as you said… did you check of your break switch (or clutch switch if you have a manual 200) is working properly? Maybe spraying some contact spray there or just check if the brake light turns on when ignition is on. Could be also a reason for not starting

 

[Skrallan]

Today I checked the plugs down by the floor on the driverside (LHD) and found some corrosion on the lowest plug. Where you need a 10mm socket to disconnect the plugs.
Two pins were damaged, where one actually fell off and stayed in the female side of the plug...

I cut off these two wires, connected them straight to each other, bypassing the plug.
(Did this with the batteries connected, maybe stupid...?)

This corrosion HAS to be the main reason for the non-start issue, but to my surprise it did not change anything....

Disconnected batteries for 10mins...
Did the OBD jumper reset for 30-40mins..

Still nothing changed


Started googeling and found some indian video related to the no crank/no start issue.
Of course, I did not understand what they were saying, but noticed that they talked about "b2288 steering lock unlock waiting time over".

Then I remember the Toyota tech mentioned that error, and just turning the steering wheel and saying that must be an old error or not related to the non-start issue...

So my guess now is that the problems started from this plug getting wet (the infamous sunroof drain thing I guess)
Then maybe that led to the
"b2288 steering lock unlock waiting time over"
error, which I cannot reset/erase without some kind of OBD reader or Toyotas software.

I will get in touch with Toyota on Monday and get the to clear all errors and then I'll let you know

Another question, do you guys have a cheap handheld OBD reader or the Toyota software on a laptop?

 

[Skrallan]

An update.

I changed the steering lock mechanism, and the now the engine cranks but does not start.

Fuel filter and supply checked, OK.

Scanned but no error code.

The car unlocks when I stand by the drivers door, so the fob is doing something right.
When entering the car, the Start button does not light up right away like it used to, before this happened.
Sometimes it takes a few pushes on lock/unlock buttons on fob, for the car to kinda realise that I am inside with the fob.....and then the start button turns orange/green.
This seems weird..............
Put another way; I cannot jump inside the car, step on the brake and the button turns green. But after it turns orange/green it acts normal.

The immob light acts normal, it flashes when ignition is OFF.
Stops flashing in ACC or ON.

Engine cranks like normal.

Have checked and rotated all fused, relays etc...

My best bet is that something with the immobilizer or the fob is lost after the batteries died.
One fob still locks/unlocks the car and turns off the immobilizer light.
The other fob does nothing.

I have tried to register the non-working fob, but no luck. It will not recognize it.

From all this, I think that the problem is not fuse/relay related, because it NEVER starts.
If it was a bad connection, I do not think it would "forget" one fob and not the other...
And it would maybe start one time out of a 100, but it never does....

Can the fob be "registered enough" to unlock/lock and turn off the immob light, but not start the engine?

 

[Sandroad]

Did you make sure no water can get to the sill connectors again? Did you check all connectors, including the passenger side? If you found corroded connectors and you’re having electrical problems like no start and not being able to register a fob and having the working fob acting funny, it sure seems likely to me there is more water damage somewhere. And yes, disconnect the battery when you’re working on wiring.

 

[Skrallan]

Did you make sure no water can get to the sill connectors again? Did you check all connectors, including the passenger side? If you found corroded connectors and you’re having electrical problems like no start and not being able to register a fob and having the working fob acting funny, it sure seems likely to me there is more water damage somewhere. And yes, disconnect the battery when you’re working on wiring.

I did not see anything wet, but looks to have been wet earlier. The car is parked inside the garage, warm and dry, but when I get it back up and running, I will make sure the leak is fixed.
I checked all the connecters, driver and passengerside, all look OK.
Only the lowest on passenger side, EK1 I think, was a bit corroded.
The two pins that were corroded were for the electric seats or seat heating.

Will have a look in the drawings again, to see if I can find something useful..

 

[2021 LC200]

Has your windshield been replaced in recent weeks/momths?

Reason I ask is that the black plastic cowl at the bottom of the windshield has a rubber seal and when poorly reinstalled (or clips damaged during removal for windshield install) it can directly leak into the passenger side and A pillar electrical connections via the HVAC inlet below the cowl. This could be the root cause of your issue as picking up water when driving and it rains goes real quick.

 

[2021 LC200]

I did not see anything wet, but looks to have been wet earlier. The car is parked inside the garage, warm and dry, but when I get it back up and running, I will make sure the leak is fixed.
I checked all the connecters, driver and passengerside, all look OK.
Only the lowest on passenger side, EK1 I think, was a bit corroded.
The two pins that were corroded were for the electric seats or seat heating.

Will have a look in the drawings again, to see if I can find something useful..

The saying goes “if there is smoke there is fire…”

Make sure the leak path I mentioned above does not exist

Otherwise check sunroof drains and conditions of the sunroof seal

And assume you have already removed all connectors and used a contact cleaner spray to clean the same

 

[Skrallan]

The windshield has not been replaced.
The sunroof drains have been checked regularly and never found blocked.

I checked all connectors, on both sides, but only found corrosion on the lowest on the driverside, LHD.
All cleaned with contact cleaner and checked with multimeter/Ohm'ed, while the connectors are

The four pins lowest, from the left, are now bypassing the connector. See attached photo.

No 1 and 2 are for the electric seats.

No 3 and 4, I am not sure, but when I connected them I heard a short buzz from near the fuel tank.
Therfore I expected the to go to the tank fuel pump. I measure 7 volts between them, which seem a bit weird...
So I pulled out the rear seats, opened the hatch to get access to the tank pump.
Pulled off the plug/connector on top of the tank/gauge unit, and found only two wires going to the tank.... they obviously are for the fuel gauge, because the tank shows empty when the connector is removed.

Is there no in-tank fuel pump on the 4.5 diesel???
Do not have a sub-tank, only 80 or so litres.

Do you have any idea what no 3 and 4 from the left are for?

 

[2021 LC200]

Not an expert in the electrical system of the 200.

I have seen electrical diagrams in the repair manual pdfs. That should show fuel pump or not (pretty sure you have so your high pressure diesel pump at the engine gets a steady 3 or 4 bar feed).

Another way could be to check the fuse box description and find a related fuse for the fuel pump.

Or go on partsouq.com