Natural Gas
- Thread starter fjman
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LPG is very commonly used in Australia. Most (if not all) of out taxis use it, as well as quite a few family cars, vans, 4WDs, etc. Some manufacturers here, like Ford, sell cars that only have an LPG tank. Most cars have used a separate LPG and petrol tank.
The disadvantages: if you run both fuels then you need room for both tanks. The LPG tank is usually fitted under the vehicle, or inside the boot (trunk) or cargo area. LPG vehicles here cary a small red 'LPG' sticker on the front and rear number plate.
Fortunately, safety hasn't been a real cause of concern. I have seen one video clip of a car that caught fire and the tank later exploded and blew the car to bits (just like in US movies!!
). This wasn't due to an accident, was away from suburbia, and the occupants had moved far enough away from the car not to be injured. After saying that then I must say that LPG cars have proven to be extremely safe. In Australia they have to be correctly fiited, inspected and maintained.
A car uses more LPG per mile than petrol, but it is still more economical to run on LPG here.
LPG is $0.49/litre or less & petrol is hitting $1.30/litre at the moment.
LPG = $1.85/US gallon
Petrol = $4.92/US gallon
When we go to a service station here there are extra pumps for LPG. They plug into a separate filler that is usually near the petrol filler. The problem that you might have in the states is whether you have LPG pumps available at many/any servo's. The cost of LPG would be determined by how much LPG the US has available to them in comparison to petrol.
Most bugs have been worked out of LPG systems, here, and vehicles run very well off LPG. There is a small decrease of power.
Rodd
The disadvantages: if you run both fuels then you need room for both tanks. The LPG tank is usually fitted under the vehicle, or inside the boot (trunk) or cargo area. LPG vehicles here cary a small red 'LPG' sticker on the front and rear number plate.
Fortunately, safety hasn't been a real cause of concern. I have seen one video clip of a car that caught fire and the tank later exploded and blew the car to bits (just like in US movies!!
). This wasn't due to an accident, was away from suburbia, and the occupants had moved far enough away from the car not to be injured. After saying that then I must say that LPG cars have proven to be extremely safe. In Australia they have to be correctly fiited, inspected and maintained.A car uses more LPG per mile than petrol, but it is still more economical to run on LPG here.
LPG is $0.49/litre or less & petrol is hitting $1.30/litre at the moment.
LPG = $1.85/US gallon
Petrol = $4.92/US gallon
When we go to a service station here there are extra pumps for LPG. They plug into a separate filler that is usually near the petrol filler. The problem that you might have in the states is whether you have LPG pumps available at many/any servo's. The cost of LPG would be determined by how much LPG the US has available to them in comparison to petrol.
Most bugs have been worked out of LPG systems, here, and vehicles run very well off LPG. There is a small decrease of power.
Rodd
Natural gas is the stuff most people heat their homes with in the US. You can convert to CNG (compressed natural gas), but it's fairly costly. It requires extremely high pressure to liquify it - around 3,000 psi, so the tanks are usually carbon fiber/kevlar. Also, there are very few filling stations (have one about 2 blocks from my shop). One benefit is that it has a high octane equivalency - around 120, but that does you absolutely no good with a 2F.
Few years ago one of the big Corvette tuners built a car with a supercharger that ran on CNG. Only thing came out of the tailpipe was water, but it had incredible power. Really pissed off the tree-huggers.
Few years ago one of the big Corvette tuners built a car with a supercharger that ran on CNG. Only thing came out of the tailpipe was water, but it had incredible power. Really pissed off the tree-huggers.
LPG is not the same as natural gas..
Natural gas is a mixture of propane and a few other gasses. Setup is different for a truck than LPG but it still is a common fuel. It does not perform as well as propane..
Natural gas is a mixture of propane and a few other gasses. Setup is different for a truck than LPG but it still is a common fuel. It does not perform as well as propane..
this reminds of when i was in high school my shop teacher said " you can run any car on alcohol with a timing adjustment" he said he made is own gas at home distilling vegetables. (good ole moonshine.) i often wonder how well that works.
any input?
also is supposed to be absolutely clean burning
any input?
also is supposed to be absolutely clean burning
Yes, sorry Fellas. There was another thread on propane, and I inadvertantly posted inside this one since it is similar. 
i just read a story about natural gas cars in the NY Times.
since the psi of your home gas line is only about 3 psi, and you need a compressor of sorts to pump it into your vehicle, and this compressor rams it up to about 3000 psi. it takes about 8 hours to do with the home set up. Some companies sell the "pumps" some, like honda, i think, actually rent them.
but the part of the story that REALLY concerned me was, and i quote, " home fueling is not taxed....yet"
so whatever you run, Uncle Sam is gonna , like to LNG compressor, RAM IT to you.
Hammer
since the psi of your home gas line is only about 3 psi, and you need a compressor of sorts to pump it into your vehicle, and this compressor rams it up to about 3000 psi. it takes about 8 hours to do with the home set up. Some companies sell the "pumps" some, like honda, i think, actually rent them.
but the part of the story that REALLY concerned me was, and i quote, " home fueling is not taxed....yet"
so whatever you run, Uncle Sam is gonna , like to LNG compressor, RAM IT to you.
Hammer
Mace -
CNG is 2-3X better than LPG: more caloric content = more power.
Hammer1 -
In Colorado a few years ago you bought a $80 permit to run CNG (or LPG, for that matter) for a year since they couldn't tax you at the pump.
CNG is 2-3X better than LPG: more caloric content = more power.
Hammer1 -
In Colorado a few years ago you bought a $80 permit to run CNG (or LPG, for that matter) for a year since they couldn't tax you at the pump.
So does anyone know where I can get a CNG, LPG kit for my FJ62?
Tinker said:
Well, if it is 2-3 times as good as propane then it must be at least 2 times as good as gasoline (typically if you do not adjust your motor for propane you will see a 10% power loss)
So a motor running 100 hp on gas could be running 200 hp just by switching to CNG??
I kinda doubt it amigo.
I do not doubt that they made a CNG corvette that was a machine. But it was designed for CNG. Something most motors are not.
LPG is easily dealt with, runs fairly clean when adjusted properly, and does not need a super special tank (forklift tanks and motorhome tanks are readily available)
I drive 5 different CNG trucks at work (dual fuel actually) when you switch to CNG they flat out SUCK (and that is closed loop
)
Propane and NGV have both been popular in Canada at various times. You could get NGV vehicles right from the manufacturer till recently. Fueling is slow not obscenely so. (10 min at the gas station) You can even have your gas company install a filling setup at home for you but it is an overnight kind of setup.
Dual fuel setups are always problematic. The rig always seems to run better on one than the other. You can build them to run really well though. I watched a Maverick with a 300 cu.in. inline six lift the front wheels and turn an 12 sec 1/4 mile on Natural gas. It's a race car belonging to a conversion company. Motors can be build to run very well and make good power.
Dual fuel setups are always problematic. The rig always seems to run better on one than the other. You can build them to run really well though. I watched a Maverick with a 300 cu.in. inline six lift the front wheels and turn an 12 sec 1/4 mile on Natural gas. It's a race car belonging to a conversion company. Motors can be build to run very well and make good power.
One problem with CNG that hasn't been covered here is mileage. For the size of the tanks the mileage flat out sucks! Put that together with unavailability and it becomes a very bad idea for anything but a short range commutor vehicle. I have heard from freinds that propane for motor use is hard enough to get in the U.S. can't imagine CNG.
I actually this week looked into it. for my ford f250.
to get the range I need two large tanks and it still only equals 20 gallons of range. becuase natural gas isn't in liquid form in the tank. only gas.
so the range issue is the problem. but it is 50 cents a litre cnd right now. so half the price of gas here.
they told me it would perform like gas, whereas propane has a 15% drop under gas. and is the sam price as gas roughly.
the kit used was 1k CND. it would take a while to counter the install cost. Cause if your on a road trip its harder to find natural gas pumps. so your forced to burn gas.
I think better to buy a diesel and run the alternates they can burn..........or just pay for gas.
to get the range I need two large tanks and it still only equals 20 gallons of range. becuase natural gas isn't in liquid form in the tank. only gas.
so the range issue is the problem. but it is 50 cents a litre cnd right now. so half the price of gas here.
they told me it would perform like gas, whereas propane has a 15% drop under gas. and is the sam price as gas roughly.
the kit used was 1k CND. it would take a while to counter the install cost. Cause if your on a road trip its harder to find natural gas pumps. so your forced to burn gas.
I think better to buy a diesel and run the alternates they can burn..........or just pay for gas.