My LX470 AHC woes - I'd love your help!

[BonS]

Yes, everything is fine. The pump solved the problem. I no longer "exercise" the pump by lowering down the LX for my wife when we stop as that probably just wore the pump out. Two of the aftermarket spheres went flat after about a year but the supplier cheerfully replaced them; so not a big deal.

 

[LXPearl]

BonS: This is a very informative thread on the AHC and thanks for sharing your experiences. I use my AHC constantly. The system has worked well other than a few instances of a heavily loaded LX in cold winter weather dipping down to the L position. This past winter I had it fully loaded again on a trip but kept it in N the whole time and it did fine. My LX has 139K on it now and I have replaced the fluid twice at about 60K miles each. The replacement has been easy to accomplish and the system responds quickly to the fluid change.

I had a warranty fix at one point because the front was riding stiff and erratic - turns out I had a leaking front shock, so Lexus replaced both front shocks. The ride has been great ever since then.

We have had discussions about the accumulator and actuators, this time it was interesting to read about what happens when the pump fails. Thanks.

 

[BonS]

The saga continues:

My aftermarket damping force control actuators i.e., SPHERES have failed again. the fronts failed at about 12 months (replaced without cost within the full warranty period) and now at least one of the rears (or maybe both) has failed after only 18 months and after less than about 8,000 miles. Recently, at least one of the rear spheres failed and would cause sea sickness in just a few miles. My wife was livid! She wants a new mechanic or a new car.

After buying the aftermarket ones I kept my old OEM spheres just in case. I put the OEM rear spheres back on to confirm my diagnosis and sure enough, problem solved. I'm sending the aftermarket spheres back to the manufacturer to determine if they are salvageable.

You can draw your own conclusions from my experience. This latest turn of events will likely cost me around $500 for shipping, ahc fluid and pro-rated warranty replacement of the aftermarket rear spheres.

 

[BonS]

Well, I've been busy getting the best prices on front and rear OEM spheres and considering my options.

First , let me say that from where I am now I could have bought front and rear OEM spheres from Lexus for the same money that I've spent on the aftermarket spheres + the prorated expense and hassle of replacing the fronts after 12 months and then the rears after only 18 months! Geese, I actually only saved 25% by taking a chance on the aftermarket spheres in the first place.

Now I find myself at a crossroads of (a) spending the $500 on reworking the rear aftermarket spheres or (b) spending about double that on OEM rears or (c) just doing nothing for now and banking the $500 since my oem originals are still working (and squandering the remaining warranty on the aftermarkets).

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result." I'm leaning toward (C). Opinions?

 

[Gebo]

I'd go with "C." "B" is your only other choice! Once you've been bitten...Or should I say twice? Or is this the 3rd time?

I know this is not gonna help YOUR wallet, but you may save many other people a lot of money and hassle. You did me and I am grateful. Thanks!

 

[Texasoil]

another alternative

Now that I have heard about the failed accumulators, let me offer another alternative: IF a customer experiences sequential failures, I usually replace the accumulators at no charge irrespective of the time since original purchase.

I will supply new accumulators at no cost to you. We expect our accumulators to last 4-6 years and have been very disappointed with a particular batch. Had to do with some defective butylene monomer that started polymerizing in the tank, but was shipped to Houston and slipped into the world-wide supply system. It got all over the world and has caused many nitrile and NBR product quality problems. OEM accumulators from Toyota have been erratically failing in 2-18 months.

We are now using a different polymer in the diaphragms with much improved low temperature flexibility and is not made with 'butylene' so that problem is moot now.

B and B stands ready to do what is right for customers.

 

[Gebo]

Texasoil,

So if I buy from you today, exactly what warranty are you now giving to us? Are you saying you have a lifetime warranty after the second failure? Is it a subjective warranty? I am not trying to be a smart aleck.

 

[Texasoil]

I am hesitant to say too much her in this forum ,fearing criticism for 'selling' I do this in the spirit of informing the LC/LX community of alternatives to the extremely costly and often really inept service from the Dealer.

Band B provides a 3 year prorated warranty, 0-12 months no charge, 13-36 prorated on months since purchase. If however a customer had the misfortune to experience multiple early failures due to our product, B and B will normally furnish free replacements in year 2. customer satisfaction is our primary goal.

 

[BonS]

I had here-to-for intentionally not named names regarding my aftermarket sphere failures as I intended no harm to anyone. Rather, quite the opposite, I enjoy helping others and this is why I participate in this forum.

In responding to my email concerning my warranty issue, I don't think it became clear that I had experienced essentially back-to-back failures. I have since received assurances that all of my spheres would be replaced without question.

I never thought that this was a matter of integrity but rather just a question of quality and cost. I've enjoyed my conversations with Texasoil and my confidence in him and his dedication to standing behind his products and doing what's right has been reconfirmed.

I'll put the aftermarket units into service just as soon as I get them.

 

[STEVEN XU]

About buying aftermarket AHC sphere accumulator

I am struggling to make the decision whether go for OEM or aftermarket AHC sphere accumulator to replace the flated 2 rear sphere accumulators in my SUV. Browsing over the Website, I found the price of aftermarket sphere accumulator made by B&B is comparability lower than the OEM parts. But some customers complained about its durability and reliability. Are there any more feedbacks about using B&B sphere accumulator? One complain is not enough to prove anything.

 

[SWUtah]

Please hang in there as this is going to be fairly long but I want to be clear about where I am in the process of fixing my AHC. I've learned a lot along the way but I'm still on the road to enlightenment!

First the facts:
2003 LX470 with AHC & 60,000 miles
Original symptom - Wouldn't raise to N or Hi but wasn't sitting on the stops
Secondary symptom - Eventually, the rear lowered to the stops, the front was within 1" of the rubber

I began doing my homework and have access to the FSM.

I removed the three sensors and they are fine with a good signal throughout their range of movement and no corrosion or leakage detected. I sealed them up and reinstalled.

I decided to replace the spheres on the damping force control actuators (because it's about that time) and I got them from Keith Bowers of B&B Syspension. They installed fine.

It took a good deal of work to get the air out of the pump and begin getting pressure but eventually I managed to do this. (If anyone wants to know the grizzly details I'll be happy to explain).

At this point I can read and reset codes blindfolded. I'm also using a digital volt meter, DVM, to monitor the hydraulic pressure at the pump.

I bled the fluid from all four accumulators and bled the height control accumulator just a little.

At this point I can put the selector in "L" and get the hydraulic pressure to spec and the pump turns off - so far so good. I then select "N" but the pressure can't get to the level required for "N". Upon selecting "N" the pump actuates, the pressure drops off somewhat (I presume that a valve has opened somewhere to allow fluid to flow into the height control accumulator) but the pressue never does get back to the maximum observed pressure that I had while in "L".

(Please don't tell me to just go to L and stay there!)

Finally, my questions:

How do you know when all the air has been bled out of the hydraulics?

I understand air bubbles etc. but what is the symptom of an AHC system with entrained air in the lines? The FSM is silent on this.

Finally, I can't find a specific procedure on bleeding the height control accumulator. Do I just use the manual height adjustment mode and bleed the height control accumulator just like the accumulators?

I'm out in Lees Summit had the same problem with mine. Took it to the dealer they replaced a sensor in about 30 minute and it has been great for the last 6 months. I later had my fluid done at 50K miles. I use Superior Lexus they do great work. I do have a 7 year 100K warranty so it is all free when it comes to problems.

 

[RoderickGI]

Took it to the dealer they replaced a sensor in about 30 minute and it has been great for the last 6 months.

Now wouldn't it be a bummer if BonS's original problem was just a sensor, meaning that the pump wouldn't come up to pressure?!

I also have had the rear accumulators go on my LX470, and I am suspicious of the front. You will be hearing from me shortly Texasoil.

 

[timedr]

Dash light blinking

I removed my ACH system and cannot be happier. Mostly happy because I never have to take the truck in for the suspension again. 80k front and rear height sensors, 100k pump (quoted 3500 but they did under warranty), 120k right rear height sensor (last partial warranty "favor" and had to kick in around $400, now at 160k the rear sensors out again and quoted $1575 and I had enough of that. Picked up from the authorized Lexus dealer and took to my home based mechanic that works on my Ford F350 work trucks. He did a little research with me and we both concurred that the risk was worth it as I am the sole driver. I don't drive like an idiot and have been driving 30 plus years and have had lots of cars that did not have a complex computer making constant decisions. That said he spent the next half a day just on the rear shocks. WOW, these are extremely difficult to remove and you need hands like a child with a grip like a gorilla. Front shocks and rear springs went fast. I did not have time to do the bars but may in the future. Truck has a slight lift in the rear but I usually am hauling something in the back or on the hitch so I am debating the need. He finished it and I just put on about 600 miles on a trip into the hills, valleys and switchbacks of Tennesee and Kentucky on a business trip. I am very happy with the change and it makes very little difference to me. I am not a big detail guy and spend most of my time listening to talk radio so I can report no rollovers or loss of handling on this trip through precarious terrain. I am writing to ask if anyone who has done this knows what needs to be done to make the dash light stop blinking. I did not remove the pump as the dealer said that it was working fine prior to picking it up to remove the system. I figured it was safer in the truck until I decide what to do with it. I would like to remove to get som of my money back on ebay if I can. Should I leave it in? What needs to be jumpered to tell the computer that the pump is not really gone and all is fine and will make the dash light go off?
Lastly, what is a pump with 60k on it worth. The correct fluids at a Lexus dealer has always been used and it was changed at least 2 times over the 60k to help resolve ACH issues.
thanks,
Jeff