Icon 3.0 King 3.0

[eizenjin91]

what is your driving style? for trails/overlanding/daily driving the 2.5s with the proper spring rate will be amazing.
if you were looking to do high speed runs across the desert or down through mexico pre-running, the 3.0s may be a better option.
Of course a light weight truck would be better for that than a 8000 lb. overland rig with a bunch of stuff bolted to the roof.
None of the guys that ran through Baja last month had 3.0s and they all did fine.
Willie Beamin has been running Icon 2.5s for several years with heavier springs to compensate for the TJM and winch, he seems pretty happy with the set up.

A mixture of all of the above. I was actually down in Baja at the same time. I go down for about a week every month and a half. I am driving this vehicle to Argentina then shipping from their to africa latter part of this summer. At the end of the day it's an expedition rig that I cover a massive amount of miles of dirt in (when im up in alaska and northern canada I consistently do 2 day stretches of 60-80mph on dirt for 600-800 miles). But it's more forest roads logging roads trails etc for this vehicle than pounding through whoops and g outs wanting to go as fast as possible on this truck I've got other toys for prerunning.
I think factoring in availability etc I'll probably end up going with the 2.5's. I have until next friday the 25th (with being gone to Expo for 4 days) to get everything ordered, shipped in, and installed before I bounce down to costa rica. Thanks for the advice buddy.

 

[TexAZ]

Sounds pretty amazing to travel that much. With long stretches of rough roads, the 3.0 May be worth it to maintain the shock oil temp, and prevent fade.
Have you tried contacting an aftermarket spring manufacturer, like eibach? They may have a spring that will work.

 

[eizenjin91]

Sounds pretty amazing to travel that much. With long stretches of rough roads, the 3.0 May be worth it to maintain the shock oil temp, and prevent fade.
Have you tried contacting an aftermarket spring manufacturer, like eibach? They may have a spring that will work.

Ah it's pretty good. I get around for work a lot. Was in central africa December-March this year.
I spoke to Icon it's a 16" spring. so the heaviest coil eibach makes is a 16" x 650LB. They only make the 700LB in a 18". Same with King (16" x 600LB). PAC theoretically makes one but when contacted said not currently making it and have no plans to. I wish I knew what rate spring the BP-51's have.

 

[Markuson]

Ah it's pretty good. I get around for work a lot. Was in central africa December-March this year.
I spoke to Icon it's a 16" spring. so the heaviest coil eibach makes is a 16" x 650LB. They only make the 700LB in a 18". Same with King (16" x 600LB). PAC theoretically makes one but when contacted said not currently making it and have no plans to. I wish I knew what rate spring the BP-51's have.

Re BPs: Are you talking about the rear spring rate? If so, that’s up to you since they don’t come with rear springs.

If you mean the coilover, that of course depends on the preload you set up front.

I run 2724 on my heavy rig in the rear and will bump up to 2725’s with any additional rear weight (or dub tank).

 

[TexAZ]

MPHO mentioned that the spring collar on his coilovers is all the way at the top. most run 2-2.5 inches down. I wonder if he is running the 18" springs....

@cruiseroutfit did you guys install the lift on Mike's truck for outdoorX4? any line on the springs used?

 

[mpho]

MPHO mentioned that the spring collar on his coilovers is all the way at the top. most run 2-2.5 inches down. I wonder if he is running the 18" springs....

@cruiseroutfit did you guys install the lift on Mike's truck for outdoorX4? any line on the springs used?

Kurt didn't install the lift. However, he did some awesome work on MANY other things! More to come on that...I measured the springs and don't remember them being 18...I want to say that they were 2 inches, if I remember correctly, higher than the normal front springs. 14 vs. 12? Just can't remember....

I had to replace the rear springs with ARB because of weight. Went with 24s...

 

[TexAZ]

Any word on the icon rear springs

 

[eizenjin91]

Re BPs: Are you talking about the rear spring rate? If so, that’s up to you since they don’t come with rear springs.

If you mean the coilover, that of course depends on the preload you set up front.

I run 2724 on my heavy rig in the rear and will bump up to 2725’s with any additional rear weight (or dub tank).

A front coilover spring has a certain rate to it IE 600lb/in 650lb/in 700lb/in 800 lb/in etc. That's irrelevant to preload. Preload is the amount of force put on that certain rate spring. Springs can interchange and swap back and forth on a coilover depending upon the weight you're looking for. Thats why I am curious what the rate on the BP-51 front coilover spring is and whether that is worth changing out if one can be found to fit. I'm betting its going to be around a 600 from OME?

Kurt didn't install the lift. However, he did some awesome work on MANY other things! More to come on that...I measured the springs and don't remember them being 18...I want to say that they were 2 inches, if I remember correctly, higher than the normal front springs. 14 vs. 12? Just can't remember....

I had to replace the rear springs with ARB because of weight. Went with 24s...

That would make sense. I confirmed with Icon today that 16". It sounds like you managed to squeeze an 18" in there? Damn consider me impressed! lol. That must be decently tall rig? What size tires?

 

[Markuson]

A front coilover spring has a certain rate to it IE 600lb/in 650lb/in 700lb/in 800 lb/in etc. That's irrelevant to preload. Preload is the amount of force put on that certain rate spring. Springs can interchange and swap back and forth on a coilover depending upon the weight you're looking for. Thats why I am curious what the rate on the BP-51 front coilover spring is and whether that is worth changing out if one can be found to fit. I'm betting its going to be around a 600 from OME?


That would make sense. I confirmed with Icon today that 16". It sounds like you managed to squeeze an 18" in there? Damn consider me impressed! lol. That must be decently tall rig? What size tires?

I understand spring rates and what you’re saying. It's not the same thing of course.
What I mean is... Spring rate selection we talk about in the rear is easy to identify, but gets tricky once we introduce adjustable preload into a coilover. With rear springs, we don't introduce preload into rear coils--so we can rely on spring-rates as published by the manufacturers. But with a preload-adjustable coilover like the BP-51s, we "artificially" compress the spring...so it is difficult to accurately predict spring rates with when preload is added. I don't recall seeing published "spring rates" for the coilovers, or if it is progressive in nature...or how that progression may or may not be curbed after applying preload. If someone knows a way to determine that...I'd love to hear it.

 

[eizenjin91]

I understand spring rates and what you’re saying. It's not the same thing of course.
What I mean is... Spring rate selection we talk about in the rear is easy to identify, but gets tricky once we introduce adjustable preload into a coilover. With rear springs, we don't introduce preload into rear coils--so we can rely on spring-rates as published by the manufacturers. But with a preload-adjustable coilover like the BP-51s, we "artificially" compress the spring...so it is difficult to accurately predict spring rates with when preload is added. I don't recall seeing published "spring rates" for the coilovers, or if it is progressive in nature...or how that progression may or may not be curbed after applying preload. If someone knows a way to determine that...I'd love to hear it.

Exactly buddy you’re dead on with how much more difficult it is to discuss a rear spring not being acted upon especially when OME says this 2724 is X rate linear with a 880lb suggested additional weight. Many more factors at play.

Almost every company I know that makes shocks has multiple coilover spring rates available or at least knows what size and rate they are to order different ones. I called ARB today and the guy on the phone was completely stumped he goes uhhh we don’t have that info even in my company technical book. He said “I think it’s around our Middle coil spring rate? It’s designed for a bumper I know that. I’ve never been asked or looked before” Lol.

With my icons on my Tacoma they came with a 650LB on the front 2.5 coilovers Added a bumper/winch/dual batter and it sank a bit. Raised the height to get the bumper sag out almost maxing out the safe allowance of roughly 1.5”-2” of visible threads (by definition adding preload) and while it got back to height it was still super squishy and rode like crap as anything does when you put too much preload in. Swapped it to a 700lb coil and dropped about half the preload out (heavier rate coil needs less preload for carrying the same weight at the same height) while also allowing for a better ride.
I don’t think OME designed the BP-51’s with the thought in mind of people heavily modifying spring rates valving etc on them. They’re designed as a wonderful plug and play option for 95% of customers. Hence like you said no mention of if it’s a progressive spring or what length weight etc.

On a side note I cracked the frame and top of the coilover bucket on a 5th gen 4Runner by having preload maxed out to fit too big of a tire lol.

Appreciate your knowledgeable input as always brother

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Thats why I am curious what the rate on the BP-51 front coilover spring is

750 lb/in

 

[Markuson]

750 lb/in

Ah! Where did you find that?

 

[eizenjin91]

750 lb/in

Holy crap that’s heavy. They’re a 750 standard? How do people run BP-51’s comfortably with no bumper etc? Thanks for the info buddy. Was not at all what I was expecting. But was in line with what the ARB guy was saying about them being set for weight.

 

[Markuson]

Holy crap that’s heavy. They’re a 750 standard? How do people run BP-51’s comfortably with no bumper etc? Thanks for the info buddy. Was not at all what I was expecting. But was in line with what the ARB guy was saying about them being set for weight.

BO coil-overs come with 20mm preload, which assumes you have a bumper and winch. If you are running stock, you simply dial back the preload to zero or 5.

I had BPs Shawn I was still otherwise stock and they were great once I set preload to 5. Then when I added bumpers, winch, sliders, skids, batteries, etc, I bumped it to 25mm. Works equally well stock or loaded.

Compression and rebound settings also make a huge difference.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Ah! Where did you find that?

I asked... haha, I’m friends with an OME engineer. That’s the spring separate of the strut, add preload and spring rate increases from there.

Holy crap that’s heavy. They’re a 750 standard? How do people run BP-51’s comfortably with no bumper etc? Thanks for the info buddy. Was not at all what I was expecting. But was in line with what the ARB guy was saying about them being set for weight.

Not really that heavy. I feel that people get really worked up by X% increase, which rightfully so sounds bad but if you look at the whole situations, it make sense.

Factory front spring rate is 500 lb in. So yes a 50% increase. I think we all can agree that it doesn’t take much to bottom out the front suspension on a stock 200. It’s like Mark said, the shock is very good (if you spend time to tune it) so ARB deceided that for versatility, go a little heavier, and with a good shock, they can stabilize it enough to make a wider variable of load feel good.

Icons more racing focus does value speed over weight carrying, and it shows in their design. That said, the last time I ran a 600lb spring was in the front of an old 4cyl single cab Toyota, and that IFS would flex like crazy. Even on my front/rear long traveled FJ, I ran 18” 700lb and 100/300 springs. It was cloud like.

So that’s why I’m not surprised the Bp51 front is 750, and also why I knew I needed to go to 2723s because if 300 felt good with a much lighter FJ, common sense would say that 340 would be a good match for a 200 with much more weight behind the rear axle.

We all have our opinions and personal tastes for how things feel. I just feel that we are dealing with not a lot of space under that truck for suspension components. I’d love to have lighter spring rates, and 24” coils front and 36” coils rear, but I don’t feel like cutting my body apart yet (one day).

But at the end of the day, BPs as a package are more for exploring with a loaded down truck, and Icons and more for speed with less load. God I could go on forever about this...

 

[4wheelgreg]

Sorry about bringing these old post back to life .
I'm trying to figure out my lift combination . I would like to do a tundra arm swap , just trying to figure out a shock spring combination for 35"s .
I'm also going to be running TJM bumper / winch / extra battery .
From my reading the Tundra swap will not net you any lift ? It comes down to shock spring combination ?
I see Icon has 3" for both Tundra and LC . Tundra spring rate is 500 and LC is 600 in 3.0 shock .
I did see BP-51 is 750 rate , Is the Tundra and LC same length Shock what the difference in Tundra BP and Land cruiser BP 51 ?
Has anyone used a LC BP-51 kit with Tundra long arm swap ?