I screwed up my 90 fj-62

[gfoz]

I have a '90 fj62, great shape, have owned it since new and have always done most of the needed (very little) work on it myself. I've driven all the 250K miles myself. So the other day I had the battery out to use it on something else and when I put it back in I didn't use the hold down bracket because I was in a hurry and was thinking I would have to take it out again real soon (very stupid I know). So I was driving down to the grocery store and turned a corner and the engine quit, and smoke was coming out of the engine compartment and possibly over on the passenger side (not absolutely sure because the window was down and there was smoke everywhere). I pulled over and all electrical was dead. I got out and tried to open the hood and couldn't. The reason I couldn't at first was because the battery had welded itself to the hood. I finally yanked up hard enough to break the battery loose.Engine would turn over but not start. Towed it home and started to try and figure it out.

First thing I did was check all the fuses and fusible links. All good. Swapped out the battery for a brand new one. I was focusing on the fuel pump because I couldn't hear the normal hum. Tried starting it a bunch with the new battery and every now and then it would catch but not start. Took off the air filter and sprayed some starter fluid in and it fired up immediately and ran for a bit. So then I figured I must of fried something. The check engine light works and when I ran the diagnostics it flashed 14 (no "IGF" signal to ECU 6-8 times in succession) not sure what that means. Connected terminals +B and FP, no fuel pump hum. Checked EFI main relay and everything checks out fine and then checked the Circuit Opening Relay. It passed all the test the manual said to run and I can hear it click when the key is turned on. Checked as many wires as I could and didn't see any noticeable signs of frying.

So that is as far as I have gotten. Not sure what test to run next. I've never messed with the ECU but I guess I will if I have too. The plan is tomorrow to start back at the fuel pump and see if I'm getting power back there and if it's not then I'm not really sure what to try.

I've searched this forum and that is how I have gotten as far as I have. Thanks so much to everyone for all the knowledge you have shared.

Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated! I hate the idea of having to tow it to a dealer after all these years of doing it all myself.

 

[DirtyLittleSecret]

Have you checked the fusible links? Pretty common failure, and I can only imagine if the battery "moved" it would put tremendous strain on the links/battery cables (check your grounds).

 

[gfoz]

Have you checked the fusible links? Pretty common failure, and I can only imagine if the battery "moved" it would put tremendous strain on the links/battery cables (check your grounds).

Thanks for the reply....yep check all the fuses and links. Everything works, and I'm getting 12 volts to all the relays. I'm thinking tomorrow I will do what one of the old treads suggested. run a hot wire directly to the fuel pump and see if it runs. If it does I guess I will start tracing it back. According to the wiring diagram the wire is red/green throughout the system.

I would think that the computer would either be good or if it was bad nothing would work. The diagnosis part of it works fine, and the engine starts when I add fuel to the intake, so I'm hoping the whole thing is good. I really don't want to spend 300 buck for a used one.

 

[slcfj62]

The check engine light works and when I ran the diagnostics it flashed 14 (no "IGF" signal to ECU 6-8 times in succession) not sure what that means.

After you verify that the fuel pump works, I'd tackle that ECU error 14. There is a troubleshooting procedure on page FI-41. It looks like your igniter may have fried based on the error code 14, but unless you have a spare handy, you'll want to follow the troubleshooting procedures. Any pics of the carnage?

 

[gfoz]

After you verify that the fuel pump works, I'd tackle that ECU error 14. There is a troubleshooting procedure on page FI-41. It looks like your igniter may have fried based on the error code 14, but unless you have a spare handy, you'll want to follow the troubleshooting procedures. Any pics of the carnage?

Just about ready to head out to the garage and tackle it.

No pics. There wasn't any damage. just a dime sized weld spot on the hood and that was where the sheet metal forms a rib so it didn't even impact the outside paint.

As I was falling asleep last night my mind was going over and over this. Why didn't any of the fuses blow? I guess because the short was from the battery positive post to the hood, before any wires. So that got me thinking that maybe the ground from the fuel pump to the body got fried somehow. I'll be checking that for sure.

All these years I have been cursing the wiring diagrams in the manual that are always getting in the way, now they are coming in real handy!

 

[gfoz]

okay scratch the fuel pump theory. I read back on one of the older threads where Mark W suggest to pull the starter solenoid wire and turn the key. I thought I could hear a distant hum but not sure and no one was around to help me so I undid the fuel line at the filter and sure enough gas was flowing out fine.

I guess now I'm on to page FI-41 to run test on on the igniter and coil circuit. The problem is the books says condition "idling" for the tests.

I'll let you know.

 

[smtyblt]

Is the EFI relay on the passenger fender well clicking. And check all the fusable links they may look good but most likely one of them is bad. You can buy these in bulk at carquest or advance auto and replace them yourself.

Cam

 

[natebobc]

Not sure if this will help.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h25.pdf

look at page 8

 

[gfoz]

Is the EFI relay on the passenger fender well clicking. And check all the fusable links they may look good but most likely one of them is bad. You can buy these in bulk at carquest or advance auto and replace them yourself.

Cam

Yes the EFI checks out fine, I ran all the test on it and the fusable links are all getting 12 volts downstream from the connectors. Everything on the car electrically works fine.

I'm just starting the tests on the coil and igniter. I getting a weird reading on the voltmeter between the positive and negative terminals and I need to make sure I'm reading the meter right.

 

[gfoz]

Not sure if this will help.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h25.pdf

look at page 8

Thanks a ton for this. Very useful. I will say, even though my 62 is parked right now I sure am learning a lot!!

I found this forum by googling "fj-62 circuit opening relay" I spent about an hour looking for it until I tried google and was directed here to an older post that said it was right by where the passengers right foot would hit!

 

[Benjaman]

While 4 wheeling my ol Toy PU, the hold down broke and the battery hit the hood. Killed my Alt and ignitor. All else was fine. Lucky for me, I had a spare ignitor, as I was 80 miles from the nearest town(middle of the black rock desert).

 

[gfoz]

ok a few more clues but I'm still clueless!

swapped out the coil and tried to start, engine tries, it is like it is firing on 2 cylinders. Ran diagnostic and now it flashes normal (before it was 14 igniter, coil). Not sure why that changed. Pulled distributor cap (new a couple months ago) and everything still looks brand new. Did a spark test. Spark at plug is real intermittent. Did a spark test of the coil getting real good spark there (3/4 inch spark). Pulled a couple plugs, everything looks fine except for the intermittent spark. Manual says to check signal generator. It's not real clear where it is though.

A big assumption I am making is the ECU is good since the diagnostics work and I'm getting spark to the distributor cap. Signal Generator must be generating a signal since the coil is firing. Engine ran absolutely perfect before the battery got shorted out.

Any help out there? This is driving me crazy.

 

[1tontoy]

Alternator and/or voltage regulator? Are you getting the proper voltage out of the alternator ?

Did you try bypassing the fusible link? Sometimes they 'look' OK, but are not. (....long shot)

 

[gfoz]

Alternator and/or voltage regulator? Are you getting the proper voltage out of the alternator ?

Did you try bypassing the fusible link? Sometimes they 'look' OK, but are not. (....long shot)

I'm not sure how I would test it without the engine running. I swapped batteries with one that is brand new. Electrical is definitely not my forte but I was under the assumption that engines will run fine with out the alternator even working (like if you break a belt) as long as the battery was fully charged. Maybe I'm wrong.

I'm getting strong spark, coil will throw a spark at least 3/4 inch and 12V plus everywhere, at the battery, both sides of the fusible links, at the coil, at the fuse box. The fuel pump works great so I know it is getting 12V.

The local NAPA had a rotor in stock so I replaced that and they will have a new cap in the morning so I will give that a try. It tries to start but it almost seems like only one cylinder is firing.

At some point I guess if I replace everything I will eventually figure it out but that is an expensive way to fix something!

 

[EOE_overland]

I was looking back through all your posts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're narrowing the problem from two sides: 1) you have good fuel pressure coming to the hardline on the engine, and 2) spark is good, at least to the point where it exits the distributor? You said something about the spark being intermittent before (?), but has that gone away with the new parts you've added?
One thing you wrote caught my eye: it ran properly, though quickly, with starter fluid. Did it seem like all cylinders fired then? I don't have my FSM at home, but what is between the EFI relay (you already tested) and the injectors? If it fires properly when starting fluid enters with the air, then the injectors may not be operating properly (or something b/w the injectors and the EFI Relay). If you've already checked this and I missed it...sorry.
I believe there's a resistance measurement across the injector pins? And something a coworker (mechanic) taught me years ago for tracking down bad injectors is to disconnect the plugs one at a time. If there's no change with it unplugged then it isn't working. But usually it has to be idling for that to work well.
Your alternator shouldn't affect the situation you're having now. As long as your battery is charged enough to crank the engine over, you should be good to troubleshoot why the engine isn't firing properly. Once you get it running, then check that the alternator is charging.
The good news is that your problem started with a short that caused the power of the fault to travel thru 8" of the underside of your hood...not directly thru important components. Although that may have made it easier to troubleshoot: it's easier to spot the fault when it's black and smoking. Your issue was more likely to affect more sensitive circuits(?). With the good report on the testing you've done so far on the ECU, things are looking brighter for a quick return of your beloved 62 .
And it may not hurt (as someone mentioned earlier) to double-check the fuses with a meter.
What seems like a horribly-complicated electrical issue can be simplified a lot by localizing what you think the problem is (ie fuel, spark,...) and testing the components directly involved in that system...like you already did with the fuel pump and igniter. If you're not totally sure where to start, pick one and eliminate it as a problem. Even the FJ62s fairly simple EFI system can drive people crazy if they don't sufficiently narrow the scope of troubleshooting.
Good luck and continue to post what you find! Especially the final result!!

 

[gfoz]

EOE_overland...Thanks so much for your input!! I am so looking forward to posting the "cure". I hope today. Just so someone new doesn't have to read the whole post let me recap.

• The battery shorted out to the hood (just the positive terminal) as it slid to the right side of car.
• The car quit instantly like it was out of gas and smoke came out from all over
• there was a little juice left in the battery after I got the hood open that I could crank it a little and get the windows rolled up but it wouldn't start
• towed it home, charged the battery and checked the fuses for continuity and the fusible links using a voltmeter (got 12 volts at battery and both sides of the fusible links.
• checked all fuses again
• swapped out battery for a new fully charged one
• tried starting again and it fired for a second (maybe one cylinder or two) so I pulled the air filter and shot some starter fluid in and it ran for a couple seconds
• ran diagnostics and got signal 14 which means igniter, coil or ECU.
• figured it had to be the fuel pump so jumped the terminals +B and Fp at the check connectors. Still didn't hear anything up by the engine.
• undid the fuel line at filter and unplugged the starter, put fuel line in jar and turned key on to starter position. Could hear pump and jar filled up about a pint in a couple seconds.
• started tracking down signal 14 stuff as someone above suggested
• checked main relay...good, found and checked circuit opening relay (on both I checked continuity, which was good and applied voltage and hear them click)
• put in new coil, still no start but it seemed like the engine "caught" more time and came closer to starting. Ran diagnostics again and got normal signal.
• checked spark at coil by pulling wire off of distributor and holding next to engine. It threw a strong spark at least 3/4 inch. Pulled two spark plugs and grounded using jumper cable and got an intermittent random spark, these are plugs that are about 2 months old, checked the gap on those too just for the hell of it.
• went and bought a new rotor and ordered a new cap. Old ones are same age as plugs, basically brand new and no signs of frying. Put new rotor in and old cap back on and same condition.

• checked coil again and pulled plug again, same condition, strong spark at coil and intermittent at plug.

So this morning I will put the new distributor cap on. Don't hold out much hope for that.
Spark at coil is rapid and strong so I assume the signal generator is working fine although I have no way of telling if it is generating a signal all the time. Spark at coil seems rapid and consistent. The other thing I will check this morning is if gas is getting to the cylinders, Not sure how I'm going to do that. The plugs aren't drenched in gas but seemed wet and because the plugs seems to be firing occasionally that might dry them off a little.

I think I have a timing light around here somewhere so I might hook that up.

Thanks everyone for all the input. If I can't get this solved at least when I do take it in I will be able to say "I did this, this and this and still can't track it down."

 

[1tontoy]

What about a bad ground/earth wire? Did you check all the grounds (engine, chassis, body)?

Is there such thing as a fuel control/shutoff relay on a 3FE (like there is on a 2F)?

 

[gfoz]

What about a bad ground/earth wire? Did you check all the grounds (engine, chassis, body)?

I woke up a couple nights ago thinking that was it but it doesn't appear like it. I can get the coil spark to jump to the engine, and anything else close. I ran a jumper cable direct from the battery negative to the plug when I was testing them.

I will re-check the ground this mornings. I would think with a bad ground the starter motor wouldn't even turn over.

 

[gfoz]

update.....

put in new distributor cap.....same
ran new ground using battery jumpers direct from negative terminal to block and terminal to frame...same
hookup timing light to spark plugs...flashes but seem erratic. As the engine is turning over every so often it hesitates in and then continues cranking. Almost like one cylinder fires at the wrong time. I probably need to pull all the plugs so the engine turns over smoothly right now it is hard to draw conclusions because it will turn over, hesitate, catch, crank fast etc.

I'm going to run all the test on the ecu and see if I can figure something out. The diagnostics is still showing everything normal.

Oh yeah, after I had cranked it over for an extended period I pulled a couple plugs and they were wet with gas.

 

[1tontoy]

Looking at the FSM for FJ62, seems like the following need to be checked:

-air flow meter
-circuit open relay
-efi main relay
-throttle position sensor