HELP?WARN full floater rear??

[Knuckles' Buddy]

Hey there, I am new to this and the whole computer thing in general. I guess I posted a question to my own profile thinking it was getting out there? It is in regards to a P.O.S. Warn full floater rear axle kit on my 77, 40. It is leaking and apparently it would be easier for me to obtain seals to a NASA booster rocket than the ones I need for this WARN J-rig. Any how, I am about to just get a whole new stock axle and be done with it, since mine had to be cut for the kit, but would appreciate any advice on a possible salvage attempt for the current set up. Thanks, Grant (P.S. oh by the way, Warn has been of no help what so ever.)

 

[Poser]

Welcome.




What seal(s) are you looking for?



Are you running lockouts or drive plates?

 

[Knuckles' Buddy]

Hey there, thanks for the reply. The seals are the brand NOK and the numbers are, AD1841FO for the spindle and AD7824E for the hub seal. I am not 100% sure weather they are drive plates or lock outs but I am guessing lock outs. They feature turnable switch's like that of front hubs. There is also what I would consider a lot of play in the drive train which I have followed out to the hubs as well?

 

[amaurer]

Hey there, thanks for the reply. The seals are the brand NOK and the numbers are, AD1841FO for the spindle and AD7824E for the hub seal. I am not 100% sure weather they are drive plates or lock outs but I am guessing lock outs. They feature turnable switch's like that of front hubs. There is also what I would consider a lot of play in the drive train which I have followed out to the hubs as well?

Drive plate = no switch.

I suspect that the play was somewhere else: If there really is play in the hub then something must be wrong, I think that hubs should have very little/no play. That said, how did you trace it to the hub? Unless you popped the diff cover and held the axle shaft then there was still a number of sloppy things between the accessible elements and the hub...

Sorry I can't be of more help, but these Warn kits have always seemed interesting to me.

 

[Knuckles' Buddy]

A local mechanic, who turned out to be a total jack ass savant with 0 people skills, gave me his genius diagnosis after he allegedly pulled the diff cover and checked things out. He then proceeded to charge me for his time while offering no possible solution's to the problem. If I manage to find some seals I'll rip the entire thing apart my self and find the play. Even if I don't and end up replacing the entire axle I am still going to tear it down.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I have a friend with one of these Warn full-float kits. They suck. The axle seals are always leaking and the whole thing looks good but is a major pain in the ass to work on.

Your best option is to get a normal FJ40 axle and swap it in. The usual drum brakes work OK, but if you can find a later rear axle with the single cylinder drum brake, they work great and are desirable in your situation.

 

[kyot4x4]

If you have the seals out take them to a bearing house and see if they are a common seal or at least ypu can order them. try Motion Industries, Kamon bearing, or applied industrial technologies. when I am looking for out of the norm seals I go to the guys that know seals

 

[atazman]

Warn Full Floater Leaks

I have had the kit in for 8 years and have not had a leaking problem. I don't use the Spindle Radial Seal (NOK P/N AD1841-FO). I rely on the gear oil providing lubrication for my axle bearings, and the O-ring seals for the drive flanges or the lock-out hubs (whichever I am using at the time) to keep the oil inside. By the way, the Hub Radial Seal (NOK P/N/ AD7824E) is supposedly interchangeable with Napa P/N 26238.

Where do you see the leaks coming from? If the leak is outboard of the hub, try replacing the big O-Ring around the hub. Keep this O-ring well greased with something like Permatex Never-Seize grease. If the leak is inboard of the wheel it could be the O-ring seal inboard of the spindle.

For your info, I have my 2nd set of lock-out hubs in to Warn right now for warranty replacement. They are the weak link in the system. I'm not saying the full-float system is especially good, but my only problem has been the hub failures.

Best wishes and keep us posted on what you end up doing.

 

[Vicm]

Hey there, thanks for the reply. The seals are the brand NOK and the numbers are, AD1841FO for the spindle and AD7824E for the hub seal. I am not 100% sure weather they are drive plates or lock outs but I am guessing lock outs. They feature turnable switch's like that of front hubs. There is also what I would consider a lot of play in the drive train which I have followed out to the hubs as well?

Reading this whole thred, I can't see how anyone can inspect for play by just taking the diff cover out.
If you have play in the wheels , that usually is caused by bearings play, since these are full foating axles now.
If you have play somewhere else then it is a different matter.
Have you inspected to see and pin point where it is?
Leaks mean seal failiar.
I have no idea how the warn kit is put together , but it should have hub seals and axle seals of some sort.

 

[nuclearlemon]

you post that it's a p.o.s., why? just because you can't find parts? or because you took it to a clueless mechanic?

like atazman, i also run in oil, so no grease seal..only leakage i've had is at the hub dial. the square cut oring there is nla from warn, but even they suggested permatex. regular permatex didn't work well, but since i switched to "right stuff", i have 0 leakage with 90wt.

 

[Knuckles' Buddy]

Thank you all for the suggestions I will be tearing the whole thing down shortly and getting in to it with my great mechanic who allows me rip this stuff apart and learn. To answer the P.O.S. question, it's simply because the system was already on the rig when I got it, Warn gives me the feeling that they have washed there hands of them, they hardly have any miles on them, are giving me trouble while the stock set ups on my other 40 and my 60 with over 240,000 miles on it seem to work just fine. It may be a great set up but my experience with some of this after market stuff has been mostly drab. The Specter smog pump eliminator kit for example, lets just say that I try my best to never buy anything from them any more. Had a local machinist look at that thing, laugh, ask if it came from California & how much I paid, then feeling sorry for me he re engineered a few things fixing it for free, works great now!

 

[nuclearlemon]

Thank you all for the suggestions I will be tearing the whole thing down shortly and getting in to it with my great mechanic who allows me rip this stuff apart and learn. To answer the P.O.S. question, it's simply because the system was already on the rig when I got it, Warn gives me the feeling that they have washed there hands of them, they hardly have any miles on them, are giving me trouble while the stock set ups on my other 40 and my 60 with over 240,000 miles on it seem to work just fine. It may be a great set up but my experience with some of this after market stuff has been mostly drab. The Specter smog pump eliminator kit for example, lets just say that I try my best to never buy anything from them any more. Had a local machinist look at that thing, laugh, ask if it came from California & how much I paid, then feeling sorry for me he re engineered a few things fixing it for free, works great now!

warn stopped making them years ago and got rid of that division of the company, which may be why you're getting the feeling they've washed their hands of it. are leakage and your "hub" issue your only problems (i'm not convinced your hub is an issue as much as i'm thinking your mechanic doesn't know what he's doing). can you verify the problem isn't poor installation or lack of maintenance? if you installed the ff, what was your reasoning? maybe it's just not living up to your expectations.

get dirty and tear it apart yourself. it's a fairly easy thing to do (worst part is if you have the lockouts, the "retaining" spring is a pita). it will help you get to know your rig a bit better and it's easier to trust work you've done yourself.

here is a pic of the breakdown...maybe it will help you out. good luck. as mentioned, i installed mine so i could easily flattow. it's worked well for that and i've wheeled it a bit and never had an issue. i'm very happy with my setup.

 

[watrob]

The kits for the full floating rears are dim a dozen here in Australia. The bearings are the same as the fronts, oil seals and gasket kits can be bought seperatly in kits without bearings.

Check Ebay Australia, Roodogs and other Ebay stores have them.

If you have play it is the bearing that are shot or the locking nut was not tighten correctly to the right spec.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

The kits for the full floating rears are dim a dozen here in Australia. The bearings are the same as the fronts, oil seals and gasket kits can be bought seperatly in kits without bearings.

Check Ebay Australia, Roodogs and other Ebay stores have them.

If you have play it is the bearing that are shot or the locking nut was not tighten correctly to the right spec.

But you are talking about the Toyota FF axle. This thread is about the Warn FF conversion kit. The bearing and seal set-up is completely different, and spare parts are nearly impossible to find, since Warn discontinued the product long ago.

My friend with one is going back to a regular Toyota rear axle, despite all the money he has invested in the Warn FF kit. It's just never quite right, and the seals leak constantly.

 

[watrob]

I was lead to believe they used the same bearings and inner oil seal and those couple of items were interchangable.

Are not these items a warn design from the Jeep?

 

[Poser]

I was lead to believe they used the same bearings and inner oil seal.....

Same as what?

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I was lead to believe they used the same bearings and inner oil seal and those couple of items were interchangable.

Are not these items a warn design from the Jeep?

I think what they used is a D44 or D60 spindle and hub, with a warn designed axle shaft that was splined on both ends. The lock nut on the spindle is the D60 4 splined nut thing.- The outer part could either be a drive plate or a warn lock out. The inner seal was very hard to track down and seems to go bad once a year or so. On my friend's, the first set of shafts had too much runout, and a second set is not much better. Plus, now they are unobtainable. He's had hub problems too, including a funny incident where one hub disengaged on the freeway leaving him with no drive power. He called me to come tow him off the freeway with my tow strap. I had a good laugh at his expense at the time-when he called he said his transfer case broke!

Anyway, Nuclearlemon is 100% right about that retaining spring. What a dumb design and a PIA to do any work on. They used a similar thing on the "Birfield Eliminator" set up as well and it too sucks the big one.

From my experience of working on 1 of these, I think it is way to problematic to even consider running it, and would swap back to a stock axle as soon as possible. I am not surprised Atazman has had few problems with his-he is a master mechanic and if anyone could make it work it is him.

 

[nuclearlemon]

i've had no issues (outside of the hub leaking) either...i like mine. i say fix it right and go for it.

 

[tyama]

I've got a set on my pig. It generates a lot of questions when people see the lock outs. I got them when I was a newb. and wanted the disk brake kit that came with them. The only problems I've had is one of the seals on the hub leaks from time to time and the POS retaining ring. I'd go back to stock but the disk brakes are nice. The warn guys were pretty good about answering questions and getting me numbers of replacement seals and bearings. I got them from napa and I still have the part numbers somewhere if you'd like me to hunt them down. IIRC, a lot of the parts were off of a chevy 4x4 front truck axle. HTH, ty

 

[Poser]

Anyway, Nuclearlemon is 100% right about that retaining spring. What a dumb design and a PIA to do any work on. They used a similar thing on the "Birfield Eliminator" set up as well and it too sucks the big one.

The only problems I've had is one of the seals on the hub leaks from time to time and the POS retaining ring.

Are you folks really whining about that spiral-spring that retains the lockout body into the wheel-bearing hub?


VERY simple solution:


Put a small bend in the ring at the very end where it tapers down. You can then grab it with a needle-nose pliers and pull/rotate the spring as you remove it.

Also, a 90-degree pick works to get under the outer portion of that retaining ring.



No big deal folks.