Help me understand dealer diagnosis (suspension) (1 Viewer)

[Matsui]

Today I took my 09 GX (172k miles) to the Toyota dealer because my wife was complaining that it has started making some noises over bumps. I was not able to replicate it, but I took it to the dealer anyways to make sure everything was OK. So this is what they diagnosed:
"Axles binding, due to angles from lift. Strut bushings worn out - play - upper control arm hitting springs. Tech recommends diff drop bracket kit (axles binding due to angles from lift), new struts (bushings worn out, play, upper control arms) and alignment - $1839.95 plus taxes"

First of all, I haven't done anything to the car to get a lift - all I've done so far is to replace all 4 original shocks/struts wtith Billstiens (never been happy with them since they are not very comfortable over bumps) - the front ones are set at 1st perch to even out front and back. I've had the car for 7 years, and knowing the type of previous owner he wasn't the offroading kind of guy. The dealer said something like I have differential drop kit which people use for offroading and I'm like, everything is stock AFAIK. I know that I will need to start replacing the suspension parts soon, so when I do, I'm thinking of getting the right stuff for a lift then and go with coil conversion & Dobbinson setup.

I'm not too technical with all this suspension stuff even though I read so much on this forum, so please let me know if what the dealer said makes sense? What exactly do I need to replace now? Struts, springs, control arms? Since the suspension is starting to fail, should I just go ahead and invest in the conversion kit + stuff to do the list like coilovers and struts, springs, UCAs? Besides lift, I want a comfort ride and no rake effect. In future like 2-3 years from now, I'm planning to get a Metal Tech front and rear bumper so need to plan accordingly to get the right suspension stuff.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

It sounds like you did lift the front by placing the springs higher on the Bilstein shocks. If you leveled the front to match the rear, then you lifted the front. Which Bilstein shocks did you get?

This apparent front lift can change the angle of your front axles but that’s only with front lifts of 2.5” or higher.

You put a drop diff kit to try to lower the axles due to a lift. I installed the diff drop kit myself and didn’t make much of a difference with the angles of the axles.

My recommendation to you is to go to a shop in your area that knows suspensions on 4Runners, fjcruisers, and gx470s and recommend you a suspension for what you want.

You can spend ~$1200 to ~$6000+ on a new suspension going from a basic package to a top of the line package. The top package like the icon stage 7 also includes UCAs, rear upper/lower control arms, longer panhard, etc.

The basic package only includes shocks and springs and a conversion kit. If you keep your front lift under 2”, you most likely only need the basic package.

Look at the various suspensions for the gx470 at the metal tech web site to get an idea of prices and what the packages include.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

If your front lift is more than 2.5”, then the dealer is right. The lift changed the angles of your axles and might be grinding. Worn out bushings are common on older vehicles. UCAs might be hitting springs.

Other than the worn out bushing, you can eliminate the other issues by putting a suspension that will lift you only 2” or less.

 

[Matsui]

I got the Bilstein 5100 shocks front and back. In the front, I only adjusted the shock to 1st perch which I think is like 1". That's the only mod or lift that I know I have. Its crazy how the dealer makes you feel like you've committed a sin doing anything aftermarket.

I'm going to try to find an offroad truck shop who do suspension mods since they have more experience with this stuff. Will do a search in MD/VA area but there isn't much offroading trend around here as compared to other places. At this many miles, I think I should also replace the UCAs when I replace the shocks and springs and do a conversion? What is "strut bushing" that the dealer pointed out? Is that part of the shock assembly and included in the coils? What is "diff drop bracket kit" and what does it do? Does it make the car lower? Anything else you can think of?

 

[James C]

1" front lift is nothing to worry about, and it shouldn't change anything drastically in the front suspension geometry. You definitely do not need a differential drop. It is a set of two spacers that lower the front diff from the frame in order to reduce the angle that the CVs are at after a large (>2.5") lift. I have a set but have not needed to install it with a ~3" lift.

At 172k miles there's a good chance the bushings and ball joints in your front suspension are worn out, especially if they are original. The front strut has one bushing where it connects to the lower control arm, and that should be easy to replace. The upper control arms have 2 bushings where they connect to the frame and one ball joint where they connect to the spindle. Easier to just replace the whole assembly instead of the individual parts. The lower control arms also have two frame side bushings and one ball joint that connects to the bottom of the spindle/hub. Again, easier to replace the whole arm.

The upper control arms will only contact the spring when at full drop. If you don't offroad, you'll never encounter that (maybe when you drive over a curb). When the techs raise the vehicle up on a lift, they will of course see that. Not sure if the 5100s extend further than the OEM struts, but if they do then could be the cause of the spring contact.

My opinion: If your UCAs are worn out, replace them with aftermarket ones if you plan on modifying the truck in the future. There are some good ~$500 options out there that work well with lifts. Doesn't sound like you need to replace the front struts, just the bottom bushings. The bushings are cheap but if you don't do it yourself the labor could be a few hundred bucks. Don't do a diff drop. It also sounds like the LCAs are fine, which is good because the OEMs are pricey. That should take care of everything the dealer mentioned.

Good luck!

 

[Matsui]

Thank you so much for your reply - this is very helpful. So for now, based on their diagnostics you are suggesting to just replace the UCAs and bottom bushings for both front struts. That's good, because I wasn't planning to do the conversion/lift until after a year or 2.

I will search for UCAs on the forum to see what people here are using. If there are any that you know offhand, please let me know. I may end up opening another thread to get everyone's opinion before I decide - want to make sure I get the good brand. For bushings, I assume Toyota part should be OK? It should fit my setup with Billstein shocks? You said that the ball joints should also be worn out by now - does that come with the control arm or is that a separate thing I need to buy? If separate, should I get that replaced now since the mechanic will be taking apart the suspension? Anything I should do to the rears now for preventive maintenance or just leave it for now until there is a problem?

 

[James C]

Definitely search - I think there a several threads on suspension already.

JBA, SPC and now Dobinsons all have more affordable aftermarket UCA options. I'd chat with the manufacturer if you decide on one of those to make sure they will work for your application. I'd only go with these if you plan on lifting the front soon. Otherwise OEM. Ball joints and bushings should come with the UCA.

As for strut bushings, you'll have to check with Bilstein on what fits.

If you're looking for other things to replace while you're in there, check to make sure your CV boots are in good shape. Also, worn out front sway bar bushings and end links can cause clunk, and those are easy and cheap to fix.

Rear sway bar bushings and end links are also wear items that you could inspect or replace.

Careful, it can be a rabbit hole of maintenance and upgrades

 

[HomersCanyonero]

This is the diff drop kit and you don’t need it Total Chaos 1" Diff Drop Spacers: 2003-2009 Lexus GX470 | 2010-2018 Lexus GX460

This is the icon stage 7 suspension and you don’t need it ICON 2003-2009 Lexus GX470 0-3.5" Suspension System - Stage 7 (Tubular) UCA's

You probably need something like this as an example Radflo 2003-UP Lexus GX470/GX460 Stage 2 Kit w/ TC UCA's

 

[Matsui]

Definitely search - I think there a several threads on suspension already.

JBA, SPC and now Dobinsons all have more affordable aftermarket UCA options. I'd chat with the manufacturer if you decide on one of those to make sure they will work for your application. I'd only go with these if you plan on lifting the front soon. Otherwise OEM. Ball joints and bushings should come with the UCA.

As for strut bushings, you'll have to check with Bilstein on what fits.

If you're looking for other things to replace while you're in there, check to make sure your CV boots are in good shape. Also, worn out front sway bar bushings and end links can cause clunk, and those are easy and cheap to fix.

Rear sway bar bushings and end links are also wear items that you could inspect or replace.

Careful, it can be a rabbit hole of maintenance and upgrades

I searched and I think JBA or Total Chaos sound like good options. I think I'll go with JBA and call them to find out what I need. I'm not planning to upgrade/lift the suspension for another year but I want to get the right UCA that I can use when I'm ready.

I've recently replaced the CV/Axles, but I'll look up front sway bar bushings and end links to replace - probably check out Rock Auto

 

[Matsui]

This is the diff drop kit and you don’t need it Total Chaos 1" Diff Drop Spacers: 2003-2009 Lexus GX470 | 2010-2018 Lexus GX460

This is the icon stage 7 suspension and you don’t need it ICON 2003-2009 Lexus GX470 0-3.5" Suspension System - Stage 7 (Tubular) UCA's

You probably need something like this as an example Radflo 2003-UP Lexus GX470/GX460 Stage 2 Kit w/ TC UCA's

Thank you! Based on feedback I've received from James C it seems I can get by for now without having to replace the entire suspension. My plan is to do the conversion in a year or two with Metaltech. I'm considering 3.5" Toytec lift or maybe go with Dobinson setup.

 

[Matsui]

*Double post*

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Good for you. Just understand that if you lift 3.5” as you state, you need way more modifications than just the basic package. You will need something like the Icon Stage 7 package plus extended brake lines and sway bar extended end links.

 

[captainva]

Random question but do any of you lifted guys have trouble getting into underground parking garages?

 

[James C]

Yes

 

[Arailt]

Random question but do any of you lifted guys have trouble getting into underground parking garages?

I have trouble and all I did was put 275/70r17 tires on.

 

[captainva]

Damn. Well thats a problem because I live in an area where underground parking is the only parking basically.

 

[Arailt]

I find anything over 6'5" is good (no lift, 275/70 tires). Unfortunately, Pittsburgh has a lot of old, low clearance parking garages.