Builds GW Nugget's Family Haulin Lx450 build

[IrishLX450]

Here we go, now where talken...
It needs to go in 1.5" more.
I get to cut more off the back to get the bumper in any further.
View attachment 1013224 View attachment 1013225

My pet peeve, that gap between bumper and body molding ! My rear quarter panels are rusted bad on my lx and thinking of cutting them out and re welding new metal to conform to the lx contour as opposed to the lx, also hoping that in doing so i may gain extra space inside to mount aux battery in rear

 

[GW Nugget]

@jcardona1 Dang... You the Man just popping out part numbers like that. That must took a bit of time, thanks.

 

[jcardona1]

@jcardona1 Dang... You the Man just popping out part numbers like that. That must took a bit of time, thanks.

No problem! I always use this site. 1996 Toyota Land Cruiser Parts | Genuine OEM Toyota Parts

They have all the part numbers and picture diagrams. Then I just search around to see who sells it the cheapest Sometimes Amazon, sometimes ebay, sometimes a random website.

 

[GW Nugget]

If I was going to start all over...
I would just get 30mm spring spacers & 1" body lift. (Approx. $200) No shocks, nothing else, the stock shocks extend within .5" of the OME 2.5" lifted shocks. (If you absolutely need shocks, then you really can't beat the proven OME "L" shock. They are made for an 80 series. Yes they will fit with a stock 19" free height spring plus a 30mm spacer, it's all about the free height of the spring.) Stop there untill you got educated here on mud & then pulled the trigger on a full lift later, if you decide to do so.. Go to Slee offroads website newbie section & the 80 series FAQ. J springs are a approximately a 3.5" lift that will need possibly many other things... I have OME 851/860 w/25mm spacer which is same as a 850/860 2.5" of lift & yellow caster bushings. (I should of stayed with OEM control bushings & did the washer mod or plates.) When they say 2.5" is max they mean it. 1" with these 80s creates a big difference.

I would only suggest two lift combos:
850J/863 for a heavy set up & a 861/862+30mm spacers for a lighter set up. L shocks will fit both these combos & both will need to lower the rear frame bump stop by 1.25"

(EDIT: The Redline Slinky Suspension is now available in 50mm & 75mm now. I also recommend this high end high quality suspension along with the Icon shocks.)

I threw my old tired stock springs & 1" spring spacers in the other day to prove a point that you don't need a full blown lift to do 35s or 315s. (This is something I learned after I had purchased my lift.) Yes it works with the longer 26.5" L shocks & stock OEM bumpstops in front, the rear need to be lowered by 1.25"...
After DDing & wheelin around awhile I found it to be great on road, but not so great offroad. The springs are not strong enough to absorb bigger bumps before hitting the bumpstops. I was also dragging the rear bumper more often than my medium lift. The stock springs only give 2" of uptravel compared to the 4" my OME mediums offer.
So, soon I will be going back to my OME lift to get back to a better bump stop gap & firmer ride. This experiment was a good education for me to get a better feel of the rig.
Below is my rig with the 25mm spacers & 1" body lift. It actually needs a 30mm in the rear though.

Here is my Lexi with 2" more lift. 4" total lift again. The body & belly is up 2" more which does make a big difference. Also the shocks now have 4" of uptravel which gives a good 40/60 ration on 10" travel on a 11.3" shock

~~~~~~~

If you like you ride & handling of the stock coils but want to use a longer shock like the L shock then one can just add a 30mm coil spacer on top of the stock coil to get enough free height to prevent the coils dropping out at full extension of the longer L shock of 26.5"

AS basic as I can tell you is the L shock was made for an 850J coil which the free height = 20.27"/20.67" The shortest OEM coil stands at 18.75" then add the spacer 30mm/ 1.18=19.93 lets just say the new free height count is 20". I have ran a 850 equivalent free height coils of 19.48" with the L sock without any issues of coils falling out, so it is safe to say as long as your free height is at least 19.5" you can run a shock the extends to 26.5" like the OME L shock. Does this make since?


Here is a picture of a Land Cruiser FZJ80, Lexus 450, and an OME 850J (all front)
FZJ80 19.5" .570"/ Purple/Green/White/ 8.25 wraps (1993,1997 D side)
Lx450 19.5" .555" Green/ Yellow/ White/ 8.25 wraps RF (96/97 LX450)
OME 2850J 20.25" 9.75 wraps

 

[bhsdriller]

Also on that leak....probably oil pump cover seal like they're saying. Same thing on mine, did the seal and bought that allen one thinking I needed it. After the pump cover seal was on and I cleaned it all up the allen has been clean since

 

[bhsdriller]

If you want to just try the allen head bolt/seal I have a new one sitting here....if you want it I can send it your way

 

[GW Nugget]

Thanks @bhsdriller, it's most likely the oil pump seal just like our fellow mudders said & just like yours. I have the parts coming soon.

 

[WarWagon]

GW...where would you get the space rand body lift with stick springs? I like the look of your #1 pic for my LX. I'm rollin' around and riding low currently.

Thanks

 

[GW Nugget]

The spring spacers are stocked at really any offroad store that supports 80 series. Slee, Man a fre, Cruiser Outfitters even Amazon.
The body lift I got at Duiser, you can piece it together 50 bucks cheaper.
Here is a link to my BL post
GW Nugget's Family Haulin Lexi450 build....
Here is a real good How to thread
Definitive 1" Body Lift How To

PM me if you have any more questions.

Glad to help.

 

[GW Nugget]

Compiled coil, shock & suspension spec thread for 80 series

I have been tying to wrap my head around my actual lift from stock i am. And how OME engineered the springs & how they came about the lift heights.

This is what I have found...
What is my lift height?
I found this.

According to the new findings,
Front is 4" & Rear is 6".
My 851 would roughly be a 1" over stock plus my 1" spring spacer. That's 2" front suspension lift. Rear is a 860 & is close to a 2" lift.

My rig only has about 200 lbs of armor, no 3rd row, spare in back & misc. Maybe 50 more pounds etc. 250 max pounds.
Fun stuff...

Then with the way Darren M. @AutoCraft Aus measures from bottom of rim to bottom of fender I have a 2.5" suspension lift. His 3" lift is 800mm/31.5" to 825mm/32.5" Lexi is 31" +1" BL... Slinky coil will add .5" more lift.

If you measure from center of hub to bottom of fender of 20" being stock then I have a 3" suspension lift plus my 1" body lift. (4" total).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE INFO BELOW IS POSTED FOR MY FUTURE REFERENCE & AT ANYTIME CAN BE CORRECTED.

My compressed measurements for the shocks so with no springs or shocks sitting on OEM bumps measured at shocks mounts & or center bolt. Front 18.5" rear 16.5".

As per Darren at AutoCraft Aus the longest shock you can have with OEM bumps are:
Front is 410mm [16.1 ] and rear is 395mm [15.5] allowing 25mm [1"] bump stop crush.
So basically front can't be longer than 16" & rear 15.5".

I have been flogging my front end for almost a year & this is what I have found. (My set up is a 851 with a 25mm spacer & 860s with L shocks.)

OME doesn't recomend the L shock till the the J spring, but mudders here have used them for years on the 850, 860, 863 & 864 with no problems. The link below is a good thread that talks about it. OME shock length just doesn't make sense!

The coil needs to have a free height of approx 19.5" in front to keep the it retained to run a OME front L shock that is 15.25" to 26.5". The rear spring needs a free height of approx 18.9" to stay retained to run a OME rear L that is 15.25" to 26.5"

Front OME springs with approx 19.5" free height:
861+30mm = 20"/20.47"
851+25mm = 19.68"/20"
850 = 19.48"/19.88"
850J = 20.27"/20.67"


Rear springs with approx a 19" free height:
862+30mm = 19.23"/19.68"
860 = 18.89"/19.23"
863 = 18.89"/19.23"
863J = 19.88"/20.27"
864 = 18.89"/19.23"
TJM Rear 50mm progressive
770RR80C
502/515mm 19.7"/20.27"
17.4mm coil diameter

Here is my not recommended set up with a 860 that's a 18.89"/19.29" free height in rear. Rear L with a 1.25" bump extension. I have 1" of up travel left in the shock & my 315 is just a finger away from the top of wheel well with a 1" body lift.

I put the front L shocks on & my 1st impression was it lifted up Lexi about .5" crazy... It feels like a sports car now, firm & stable. Some say that OME shocks are harsh & some even say jarring. I can see how that could be if comparing them to a stock shock, but I welcome these L shocks compared to the sloshy unsafe shocks I had. These shocks are valved for the 80 & the OME springs. I haven't seen a $100 price range shock that works this good so far. Some have been happy with the Fox 2.0 non reservoir at approx. $130 each.

Here are the specs & my actual measurements.
Rear 60071L
Comp. 387mm/15.23"
Ext. 673mm/26.49"
My measurement was 15.25" to 26.5"

Front 60070L
Comp. 381mm/15"
Ext. 667mm/26.26"
My measurement .25" more than spec 15.25" to 26.5" I didn't take pictures, sorry.
I did add some extra washers to make them almost 27" 26.9"ish


Here is a link to a awesome thread wear I learned a lot of the info that I'm putting here for myself to refrence back to later.
OME Lifts discussion for the FAQ

OME specs
http://www.arbusa.com/Uploads/PDF/onlineManualsGuides/OME_Guide_current.pdf

As you can see in the chart how the front springs increase in wire size as they add turns.
851 16mm/.629" 8.18 turns
850 16.5mm/.649" 9 turns
850J 17mm/.669" 9.9 turns
The wire diameter does get thicker as OME adds turns which total makes sence. As you add thickness & turns the rate stays the same at 220lbs. So on paper the 851, 850 & 850J should have the same ride & feel. I don't know if this is how it feels by the seat of the pants though???
Here is where I learned the above
OME 851, 850 & 850J what is the difference?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Level OME combs:
This is my theroy to achieve a level lift for lightly loaded rigs.

Use standard Nitro Charger shocks to keep coils captive.
1" lift. 861/862 dual rate.
1.5" lift. 851/865
1.5" lift 851/866 dual rate.

Use L shocks 60070L/60071L
2" lift 861/862 plus 30mm spacers
2.5" lift 850/860
3.5" lift 850J/863

Below are some pics & links to support my theroy of level stance.

Here is a 850J/863 install from @Tools R Us
Tire Lowering on Rich's '80

850J front, 863 rear, 37s?

Installed 850J/863 L shocks

I also found this thread.
100 Series springs for level stance

OME 865 & 866 on a 80 series?
851/865 & 285 Duratracs.

Here is some great repair tips on the sway bars & other old school tricks by none other than @Tools R Us
Workin on Joe's 80
~~~~~~~~~
I also have learnd there is a difference between a progressive & dual rate spring. I just wanted to sare this to clarify the difference.

 

[GW Nugget]

I don't know about others, but I'm tired of having a stinkbug while DDing around then to sit low as soon as the kids & gear go in the back. I want to stay at the 2" to 2.5" level. My current set up is a Lx450 with 315s & light armor, inside spare tire nothing hanging out the back. It has a OME 851+25mm/860 combo & it gave me originally 2" in front & 3.5" in the back, I had to add the 25mm front spring spacer. So now it sits at 1" or more empty in rear. I would like to go lower at all 4 corners if I could.

I like the idea of a dual rate spring & the taller free height of the TJM, but after a lot of reading it appears that its a 50/50 love hate. The people that like them don't wheel them. The rigs that where heavy & wheel, the people said the don't hold up to the added weight.
I did the research on OME single rate springs & found they sit taller as they increase the rate in the rear springs. For me I don't want to go with a high lift to get a stronger spring to stay level on trail & be super stink 90% of the time.

My bottom line question is: Is there a 2.5" spring out there that can handle a wider range of weight, without such a deflection in height?

That was my question from months ago & since then I found out more info on this subject. I realized there is a couple springs that might fit my needs. The springs that I'm referring to are the OME 861/862 combo.
The info that I'm going to quote from is the OME specs.
http://www.arbusa.com/Uploads/PDF/onlineManualsGuides/OME_Guide_current.pdf

The 861/862 combo is the OME stock replacement springs for the 80 series.

The front 861 dual rate 170/250 has a factory spec 170 lb. rate on top & a stronger 250 lbs. rate than the medium 851 or the heavy 850 spring rate of 220 lbs. on the bottom. Yes these are stronger than OME heavy & J springs.

The rear 862 dual rate 170/260
They also have a factory ride rate of 170lbs. on top plus a heavy spring rate of 260lbs. on bottom that is stronger than a heavy 863 spring rate of 250lbs. Hmm.

Is the 861/862 the hidden jewel of OME?

These by them self will add .75" to 1" of lift, but here is the twist. If you add a 30mm spacer on top it can be a true 50mm or 2" lift. These will also have a free height almost as tall as the J spring. This means the longer L shock can be used with this set up. Hmm... stock replacement springs with L shocks. Low & Long. Here are the specs:

Front
850 = 19.48"/19.88"
861+30mm = 20"/20.47"
850J = 20.27"/20.67"
861+40mm = 20.47"/20.86"

Rear
863 = 18.89"/19.23"
862+30mm = 19.23"/19.68"
862+40mm = 19.68"/20.07"
863J = 19.88"/20.27"

TJM Rear 50mm progressive
770RR80C 19.7"/20.27"

I have found & questioned several people here on mud that have this set up & wrote they where really happy with the set up.

Weekend Transformation, OME 861/862
Center hub to bottom fender is 22.25"
My set up is 22.5"

Above is a 2" option, below is a 3" dual rate option from Australia. Darren M. with @AutoCraft Aus has some springs that are called Slinky Long Travel. I have been told they are coming to the US market soon. Thesee springs have been in production since 2005.

Slinky front 160/260 lbs. 24"
Slinky rear 160/270 lbs. 22"
They do have some other heavy duty springs.

Here is a snip from Darren:
Slinky
Free height is 24" front 22" rear.
Our slinky coils for front are 260 lb [SNOWY has these]
rim to fender is 800-825mm, and because the last 2 5/8 thick coils are completely dead, it allows us to trim heights to suit by removing a coil if we need to.

Our rears are 270lb intermediate 810-830mm rim to fender and 320 lb HD 810-830mm rim to fender.

All our slinky coils are 160 lb on the tapered wire section.

We normally try and work to a 30mm [1 1/4"] rake when vehicle accessory fitted but unloaded as we see it to install.

Our intermediate coils drop aprox 12mm [1/2"] per 100kg (220 lbs.) of load.

Our HD drop aprox 8mm per 100 kg (220 lbs.)of load.

How we measure those, rim to fender, for 80 we talk 16" rim, and add 12mm for 17s, 24mm for 18s, etc.

This makes it easier with deep dish wheels, than centre of hub, and removes tyre pressure variants.

 

[GW Nugget]

Edit in 2018 I started a complete spec thread click here for updated info... Compiled coil, shock & suspension spec thread for 80 series
~~~~~~~
Other shocks specs.
This is a work in progress...

As per Darren at AutoCraft the longest shock you can have with OEM bumps are:
Front is 410mm [16.1 ] and rear is 395mm [15.5] allowing 25mm [1"] bump stop crush.

So basically you will need to start adding bump stops if the shocks are longer than 16" front & 15.5" rear. Some shocks below will require lowering bumps.

SHOCKS:
Just for reference again Ls are 15.25" to 26.5"

Fox 2.0 non res.
Front
985-24-076 15.35" - 25.95" Stroke 10.6 in. (0"-3" lift)
Rear
985-24-087 16.65" - 27.25" Stroke 10.6 in. (0"-3" lift)

Icon 2.0
Standard
2.0 IFP 56509 front 15.35 - 26.17 stroke 10.82"
2.0 IFP 56510 rear 15.60 - 25.67 stroke 10.07"
Long version:
Front 56511 17" - 28.25" stroke 11.25" (4"-6" lift)
Rear 56512 16.85" - 27.42" Stroke 10.57" (4"-6" lift)(needs .5" bump stop)

 

[GW Nugget]

After one year of ownership & my current set up.

As of 11-4-2015 I have had my Lexi one year.

This was my build year & I am looking forward to a lot more seat time as far as camping & wheeling. I have put to much thought & energy into this suspension flex business & need to move on with my build other than getting more inches of articulation.

So what I did was just gave up trying to get huge gains in suspension travel, I threw in the towel & put some shorter L shocks on. I'll quote some veterans by saying these 80s are not rock donkeys & use them for expo rigs rather than rocks crawlers.

By putting the front L shocks on it limits the travel to prevent the tie rod hitting the control arms & also allows disconnecting the sway bar. By just putting them on lifted my front almost 1" & also gives me the firm stability that I have been looking for.

I will also play with putting back in the OEM bushings along with narrowing the front control arms to reduce axle bracket bind with the control arms. The new goal is freedom of movement rather than more flex.

 

[GW Nugget]

We had a blast at Turf N Surf 2015

The family went to Turf N Surf 2015. It would be safe to say my family caught the wheelin fever this weekend. This will be a annual event for us from now on. The people where great to be around & the event was well organized. The 2 days wasn't enough time to visit & meet up with everyone. I was having such a great time I forgot to take pictures, but here are some I did get.

This guy did a great video... Our camp & Lexi is in there several times.

 

[GW Nugget]

I was on my way to the grocery store but I had the urge to test out the new L shocks at my local playground with a dico'd front sway bar. The new Ls make it firm & stable enough to wheel it this way. I don't know why people complain about these being harsh or jarring... maybe compaired to a stock shock...

I just wanted to add that a 26.5" L shock won't drop out my 850 or 851+25mm like in my video. Mine did fit snug that way.
I wanted more drop so I added the 2" MAF drop brackets that add 2" more drop, also diconnected sway plus added a .5" of washers to the shock to make it longer to ext. 27" this drops the coil out by 1".

 

[sleeoffroad]

Gary, good work in writing all this up, however a couple of notes.

1. You have not taken the bushing stack into account on shock length. It is common to measure they way you did, but on your 15.25" shock you should add about 2" of bushing stack to the front and 1" for the rear when using OME bushings and washers. That makes the front shocks 17.25" and with 1.5" of bump stop compression you can get into a situation where you over compress the shock. Also on articulated front axle the available space for the shock will be slightly less than the 17.5" you measured.

Also for the droop, you have to add 2" to the extended length for the front and 1" for the rear, so your conclusions on the free height of the spring required is incorrect. That is shown by your video where the front spring becomes unseated and it is possible that is enough that the spring can bump out of the bottom seat.

 

[GW Nugget]

Mr. Christo Sir, I have nothing but respect for you, your valuable time & the many years it took to get it all figured out on the 80 series. The way to measure shocks has been a grey area. Darren M. was so kind to posted this picture & I measured the shocks this way.

As for reality of fitment is another ball game with a lot of veriables like adding 1" per bushing like you wrote. 2 bushings & collars add up to 2 inches plus bump squish.

UGG...

This is why I also went out to flex it & didn't show in the video or picture, but I do have 1.5" of shock travel left on the articulated squashed bump side. I also do want to make a note that a 26.5" ext. L shock with out the 2" MAF drop brackets does not drop out the coil (on my rig) with my 851+25mm spacer or 850 same free height.

If I miss understood you or didnt address one of your statements than please correct me if I'm wrong. I can delete or correct any wrong information or videos that is going to direct someone down the wrong path to kill a buss load of nuns...

Again thank you for your time & eagerly wait for your reply.

 

[sleeoffroad]

OME bushing with the washers are about 1" per bushing. You only count one for the top and one for the bottom on a pin - pin shocks (so that adds 2"). The others are "outside" the mounting area. On a pin eye you only count one for the pin side (that adds 1").

The pic you show is correct and standard how shocks are measured, but the variable are the bushings and have to be taken into account.

In the video your front spring unseats by about 1" or so. That is because the front shock is actually around 28.5" extended length with bushings.

 

[GW Nugget]

Sir, my bushings & collars are .75" then when compreassed are like .5"

As far as measuring on the rig while compressed with the way OME covers the shock shaft I put marks on the body for a quick look while under the rig. (Yes I'm anal, but I just want to get it right.) This is how I know that I have 1.5" of shock left at the bumps...

I will snap pic on the way home to show my articulated on bumpstop measurement. Stay tuned.

 

[GW Nugget]

Here is my on bumpstop articulated pic.
This is with a OME 851+25mm, factory bumps plus .5" of added washers to make them longer now are 15.75" to 27"
I have 1.5" of shock left for a conservative squish of the bumps. This is enough for me.