Gearing choices. Looking for opinions.

[Leaping Deer]

Trying to figure out what I am goiung to do for gearing choices and I keep going back and fourth. What I have to start with is a H41 and what I believe to be 3.73s in the diffs. I also want to eventually go 35"s buy may end up sticking with the 33"s for a little while. I want to do some intermediate+ wheeling but still need to drive it to the trail (including highway). There are two scenaros that I am considering and an looking for opinions:

1) Keep the H41 and swap to a 3spd t-case (which I already have). This would make a good intermediate step as I would eventually want to do a rock box or toy box to go really low and have more selectability. The main issue the rock/toy box requires replacing the output shaft so I might as well have the tranny rebuilt at that time as I think the 3rd gear syncro could use replacing eventually. Does anyone have an idea what that would cost and who does this type of tranmission work? The plus side I would be able to retain my PTO/winch combo that I just picked up.

2) Get an H55. I would need to source a split case, and buy a shaft to move the ebrake to the tcase. Down side is that is that there is no intermediate step to get lower gearing so its a big cost all at once so it wouldn't happen for while. Also I would lose the option to have the winch unless I find a split case pto. However it would be a new tranny. I would also probably have to regear the axles.

I as you can see I am leaning towards option 1 but the cost of the tranny rebuild and not knowing where to get it done is what concerns me.

 

[rabid]

does it have to be toyota? What about an SM420? They are loud as hell on the road, but are 1:1 in top gear, so no effect on the highway (aside from the drone) and 7:1 1st for the trail (iirc)

I have one in mine, kept the stock axle gears, and it is plenty low in the woods. No synchro first sucks, but if it is for your fj45, you could always do the sm465.

 

[rapovt]

Are you sure you have 3.73's. It would have come with 4.11's. I have h42/toybox/3 speed transfer case with 4.11's and 36's. yesterday Jr. had h41/ 3 speed case and 35's. When he was in 1st I would be between 2nd and sometimes third. I do use first some when I come to something vertical but use mostly third (low on both the toybox and tranny)

 

[rapovt]

Also if you are thinking of a toybox ($1500 plus changing shafts) You might think about an orion HD ($2200), bolt in with no driveshaft mods and way stronger. If i had a preference I would rebuild the H41 with the orion.

 

[green40]

Orion and don't look back!

 

[Leaping Deer]

I kinda shy away from the SM420 and SM465 for two reasons. I don't think that I would be able to use the PTO and I like the fact that the Toyota shifts a little smoother. I am pretty sure that they are 3.73 as it is a 77. I will probably jack it up tomorrow and find out. It is just too quick on the trail. Does anyone know if you can use a PTO with the Orion?

Do I really need the selection of the Toy Box to do some of the heavier wheeling around here? Do you think that it would be worth the extra money?

 

[Leaping Deer]

Also if you are thinking of a toybox ($1500 plus changing shafts) You might think about an orion HD ($2200), bolt in with no driveshaft mods and way stronger. If i had a preference I would rebuild the H41 with the orion.

Orion HD? Is that different' from a straight Orion?

 

[crusier72]

You should drive a cruiser with a sm420 or sm465. You can drive mine when I get it fixed if you would like. I am very happy with the sm420 it takes some getting used to because it's not as smooth as a Toyota tranny but with 4:11's in the diffs and 37"s it is a great combo the first gear is great on hills.
For me the reason I went with it was it was cheep and gets the job done. The orion's are nice but spendy only a little less than a atlas.
Mark

 

[rapovt]

Orion is a kit ($1650) that uses some parts from your old case. Some have problems mixing old with new. Orion HD is all new,assembled and ready to drop in (about $2200) . I talked talked to an Advance Adapters guy at the Sema show- learned alot. I have his name if you want it (he is a cruiser guy)

 

[rabid]

I have the PTO on mine with an sm420. Several guys I know do.

There is no question the toy unit will shift better. THe newest SM420 you can get is 1967.

The orion and the toxbox are awesome units, just pricey.

Just an FYI, the SM420/PTO will NOT work with a plate style adaptor. To run a pto, you need the AA style, so figure that in, with a used tranny, rebuild kit, clutch, etc, and you will probably be approaching the cost of the orion.

I got my tranny and AA kit used for short money, so that was the route I went.

 

[crusier72]

Are you really set on a pto winch. I've seen them used and they are decent units but I think the electric warns are a better choice. If you really work the pto you will have to deal with breaking the sheer pins either making bigger ones are doubling them up. The pto's are not as easy to use. Experienced people like Wally make it look easy but if you haven't ever used them it looks like two elephants humping on a beach ball. Funny to watch but possibly dangerous. The electrics are much easier to use you can be outside the vehicle the truck can not be running etc.

 

[rabid]

I (ok, well, wally did it) eliminated the shear pin on mine. I agree the electric is a much easier option, but I have seen countless electric winches cook, fail, or just not have the nut to pull a vehicle out.

The PTO has it all over the electric in terms of strength, if you pull the shear pin. Think of every wrecker or skidder you know of. They all use PTO. I have heard people say the brass gear is next to go, but I have never seen it. There are several other disadvantages to the PTO, such as parts availability, cost, exposed parts (think shaft and PTO box), complications with power steering setups, more stuff to leak/fail. Also, it will not help you back over if you roll.

That being said, I have had both, and the PTO has outpulled my old 9K winch. I would still love a rear mount PTO, and a front electric. That way, I know I can almost always get out.

I have some new winch rope I will be trying on mine (thanks to BJowett on this board- PM him!) as my winch has pulled so hard it has snapped cable. Twice. Dangerous stuff, kiddies.

If you do drop the winch setup, it would make this much easer, however. Plus, then I can buy it from you.

 

[Leaping Deer]

The pto's are not as easy to use. Experienced people like Wally make it look easy but if you haven't ever used them it looks like two elephants humping on a beach ball. Funny to watch but possibly dangerous.

my winch has pulled so hard it has snapped cable. Twice. Dangerous stuff, kiddies.

You guys have me kind of second guessing the whole PTO thing. Might just be easier to go with electric. I do like the idea that I would be able to use synthetic line.

On the topic of SM465, Rock Box, and Orion there are just so many choices.

I know the SM420/SM465 would be a cheaper route. I still like the selectability of the Rock Box but its a little more expensive and requires more modifications and with the Orion there is the ease of installation.

If I go Rock Box or Orion I would probably have to either rebuilt the H41, anyone and any idea what kind of cost I would be looking at for that, or go H42 and regear to run 35"s right?

 

[rblank]

Other than the previously mentioned downsides to a PTO winch, another reason is that it isn't going to work if the motor isn't running (stalled on a steep incline, hydrolocked, on your lid, etc) an electric will.