I bought a couple of rattle cans of paint from Tower Paint to touch up my rig. I sanded the area lightly and put it on and got "frog's eye" which is what I call it when the paint is not sticking and does those little circles. I suspect that there is wax on the paint or the paint is not compatible. What should I do to deal with this? I don't want to take it all down to bare metal.
Frog's Eye
- Thread starter Heartworm
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zcruiser
Needs monitoring
Dawn detergent will strip all grease/wax off the surface.
i think your talking about orange peel but it could be wax and or oil on the paint or left from your hands... sometimes if the paint is a laquer and you sprayed a acrylic enamal it will not adhere, check what type of paint is on your vehicle then try to buy the same type of paint that corresponds with that of your 60. Go to napa and for about 9.00 you can buy a quart of "crossfire wax and oil remover", the stuff works great and gets the job done. you might also want to try spraying a primer on the sanded area then painting with you color, this will promote better adhesion of the color.
srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
first - most painters call it fish eye - looks like little popped bubbles or Zits... second it is usually the result of the base coat paint or primer that is on the car being contaminated with wax, silicone or even fingerprint oil. another thing that very often causes this is that your car was repainted. the painter (to save time) put ‘fish eye eliminator’ (a paint additive used a lot by cheaper P&B shops) in his paint to avoid the problems you are having. This was great for him but also can cause the problem you now have. So this series of steps applies to all decent repaints, even those not with rattle cans. you have the problem; you need to fix it… Here’s how:
resand all areas that are fisheyed, completely removing all fisheyed paint. clean thoroughly with 'hotter' thinner like naphtha or acrylic enamel reducer (get all of the paint that fisheyed off even if part of it did not fisheye, it was contaminated and what is below it is also still contaminated). Avoid gas, mineral spirits, turpentine, zylene, zylol, acetone and lacquer thinner in this step. Very wet rags with acrylic enamel thinner can sometimes effect the old paint, so go easy with it. i don't put that much stock in Liquid Dawn even though the paint and body shops completely wash all cars to be painted with it right before going into the spray booth… (the good ones ALSO wash with thinner because Dawn may not entirely remove old hydrocarbon residue on the car). i use denatured alcohol (not rubbing alcohol in the medicine cabinet) for this step since it does not migrate directly through the skin as most thinners do and the fumes do not take your breath away. You need to wash and wipe off at least twice with a different rag the second time… otherwise you are just smearing around the problem. you don’t have to breathe in the fumes of volatile thinners for them to cause damage… just pour them on a rag without wearing rubber gloves and let your skin do the job for you. Read the warning labels on the hazardous products you are using. toluene is directly absorbed into the bloodstream and distributed to the liver and all organs right through the skin! You don't even need cuts. And, if you use a tack rag try to find one that does not use turpentine for its tack.
PRIME area to be painted with good auto body filler type primer (good, as in not the cheapest, follow directions & sand first). this will help fill little chips and imperfections in the base coat. sand, then clean again with hot thinner on an almost dry rag. your goal here is not to wash off the primer; just make it dust free. SHAKE, SHAKE,SHAKE rattle cans until your arms are tired. then, shake some more. sometimes paint that is not sufficiently mixed will cause fisheyes. primer is cheap and good insurance... also, if the paint is going to fish eye it will usually do so in the primer coat. most primers are lacquer or hot thinner based; they will help with the problem. if there is any bare metal - repeat step.
LET PRIMER (& all subsequent layers of paint) DRY COMPLETELY before sanding and recoating. lots of times the fish eye problem is caused by building too much paint right on top of paint that is not thoroughly dry. sanding is not only good to help bond... if the paint being sanded is not powder, then you did not wait long enough. find something else to do while the paint dries... otherwise you will almost definitely be trying to work too fast for the paint. with rattle cans, ALWAYS turn can upside down and spray for a few seconds to clear nozzle between every coat. otherwise that final coat might not spray a nice even pattern.
next, spray a very light coat of rattle can or finish paint on. keep the can or spray gun a little further from surface than directions indicate and get a good, even 'mist' on area to be covered. you can use a large piece of cardboard to shield any areas you don't want overspray on by just keeping it between the surface and the rattle can. OR, you can mask if you have a hard line to tape to. using the "overspray guard" cardboard lets you blend in a little easier with rubbing compound or really fine wet paper when you are done. again, let paint dry completely. and start learning to have patience. this is not something you can rush through if you want a decent job. if you are using a gravity or siphon feed spray gun, strain all paint, even that from a new can before spraying. that guy at the paint store could have been smoking when he mixed the paint & dropped an ash in or the pigment hopper for the tint could have had the cap left off.
spray another light coat (a little heaver than the first). let it dry... you will know at this point if you still have contaminants in the base coat. or you bought cheap
paint to save money and that is the problem... bad idea. cheap = cheap, no matter what. you might get lucky and find an off brand that is manufactured by a quality company and repackaged under a retail distributor's label... not too often. and, once you have fisheyes no amount of paint on top of them will cover and / or fill them.
very lightly sand with fine sandpaper (400 or 800 –> 600 / 800 is better). clean with 'dry' hot thinner rag (should be dust/lint free cotton - something like an old T-shirt… avoid paper towels as most are not lint free and some will even scratch the new paint). now give it the final coat - a nice smooth wet one - but not with spray can / nozzle so close it gets runs in it or 'streaks'. this might take two coats to get a really good wet glossy look. don't keep spraying in the same direction unless you want to have lines... up / down then right / left and if necessary corner to corner. best to practice procedure once on an old piece of metal or plastic through the whole process simultaneously (but before doing it on the car) unless you are already good at it. for each layer of paint you apply - spray a sample on something besides the car to test if it is completely dry instead of touching or messing with the paint on the car. several light coats and then flood coat works best.
even professional auto painters have fisheye problems. at my friend's P&B shop the painter had a car all cleaned and prepped and in the booth. he is one of the best painters i have ever seen. some guy pulled up in a diesel, parked right in front of the paint booth and left it running there for about 15 minutes while the painter was painting a vintage mustang black.
the whole car fish eyed because the diesel fumes were sucked into the booth through the air filters. they had to strip all the paint off of the car and start again from scratch. they even replaced all of the filters before using the booth again... doing it twice wastes time & is expensive. DO IT ONCE. DO IT RIGHT. IT TAKES LESS TIME & MONEY.
resand all areas that are fisheyed, completely removing all fisheyed paint. clean thoroughly with 'hotter' thinner like naphtha or acrylic enamel reducer (get all of the paint that fisheyed off even if part of it did not fisheye, it was contaminated and what is below it is also still contaminated). Avoid gas, mineral spirits, turpentine, zylene, zylol, acetone and lacquer thinner in this step. Very wet rags with acrylic enamel thinner can sometimes effect the old paint, so go easy with it. i don't put that much stock in Liquid Dawn even though the paint and body shops completely wash all cars to be painted with it right before going into the spray booth… (the good ones ALSO wash with thinner because Dawn may not entirely remove old hydrocarbon residue on the car). i use denatured alcohol (not rubbing alcohol in the medicine cabinet) for this step since it does not migrate directly through the skin as most thinners do and the fumes do not take your breath away. You need to wash and wipe off at least twice with a different rag the second time… otherwise you are just smearing around the problem. you don’t have to breathe in the fumes of volatile thinners for them to cause damage… just pour them on a rag without wearing rubber gloves and let your skin do the job for you. Read the warning labels on the hazardous products you are using. toluene is directly absorbed into the bloodstream and distributed to the liver and all organs right through the skin! You don't even need cuts. And, if you use a tack rag try to find one that does not use turpentine for its tack.
PRIME area to be painted with good auto body filler type primer (good, as in not the cheapest, follow directions & sand first). this will help fill little chips and imperfections in the base coat. sand, then clean again with hot thinner on an almost dry rag. your goal here is not to wash off the primer; just make it dust free. SHAKE, SHAKE,SHAKE rattle cans until your arms are tired. then, shake some more. sometimes paint that is not sufficiently mixed will cause fisheyes. primer is cheap and good insurance... also, if the paint is going to fish eye it will usually do so in the primer coat. most primers are lacquer or hot thinner based; they will help with the problem. if there is any bare metal - repeat step.
LET PRIMER (& all subsequent layers of paint) DRY COMPLETELY before sanding and recoating. lots of times the fish eye problem is caused by building too much paint right on top of paint that is not thoroughly dry. sanding is not only good to help bond... if the paint being sanded is not powder, then you did not wait long enough. find something else to do while the paint dries... otherwise you will almost definitely be trying to work too fast for the paint. with rattle cans, ALWAYS turn can upside down and spray for a few seconds to clear nozzle between every coat. otherwise that final coat might not spray a nice even pattern.
next, spray a very light coat of rattle can or finish paint on. keep the can or spray gun a little further from surface than directions indicate and get a good, even 'mist' on area to be covered. you can use a large piece of cardboard to shield any areas you don't want overspray on by just keeping it between the surface and the rattle can. OR, you can mask if you have a hard line to tape to. using the "overspray guard" cardboard lets you blend in a little easier with rubbing compound or really fine wet paper when you are done. again, let paint dry completely. and start learning to have patience. this is not something you can rush through if you want a decent job. if you are using a gravity or siphon feed spray gun, strain all paint, even that from a new can before spraying. that guy at the paint store could have been smoking when he mixed the paint & dropped an ash in or the pigment hopper for the tint could have had the cap left off.
spray another light coat (a little heaver than the first). let it dry... you will know at this point if you still have contaminants in the base coat. or you bought cheap
paint to save money and that is the problem... bad idea. cheap = cheap, no matter what. you might get lucky and find an off brand that is manufactured by a quality company and repackaged under a retail distributor's label... not too often. and, once you have fisheyes no amount of paint on top of them will cover and / or fill them.
very lightly sand with fine sandpaper (400 or 800 –> 600 / 800 is better). clean with 'dry' hot thinner rag (should be dust/lint free cotton - something like an old T-shirt… avoid paper towels as most are not lint free and some will even scratch the new paint). now give it the final coat - a nice smooth wet one - but not with spray can / nozzle so close it gets runs in it or 'streaks'. this might take two coats to get a really good wet glossy look. don't keep spraying in the same direction unless you want to have lines... up / down then right / left and if necessary corner to corner. best to practice procedure once on an old piece of metal or plastic through the whole process simultaneously (but before doing it on the car) unless you are already good at it. for each layer of paint you apply - spray a sample on something besides the car to test if it is completely dry instead of touching or messing with the paint on the car. several light coats and then flood coat works best.
even professional auto painters have fisheye problems. at my friend's P&B shop the painter had a car all cleaned and prepped and in the booth. he is one of the best painters i have ever seen. some guy pulled up in a diesel, parked right in front of the paint booth and left it running there for about 15 minutes while the painter was painting a vintage mustang black.
the whole car fish eyed because the diesel fumes were sucked into the booth through the air filters. they had to strip all the paint off of the car and start again from scratch. they even replaced all of the filters before using the booth again... doing it twice wastes time & is expensive. DO IT ONCE. DO IT RIGHT. IT TAKES LESS TIME & MONEY.
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- Thread starter
- #5
Thank you SRPLUS
I remember now that it is called fisheye, not frog eye. Kind of reminds me of when a coworker at Auburn told me that she had cooked a delicious steak the night before with some sauteed "Frog stools". Anyway, I really appreciate the quality information.
I remember now that it is called fisheye, not frog eye. Kind of reminds me of when a coworker at Auburn told me that she had cooked a delicious steak the night before with some sauteed "Frog stools". Anyway, I really appreciate the quality information.
PPG Wax & Grease Remover
srplus
Walked with the Dinosaurs
no prob & sorry for the long post
with fisheye there are usually several issues... one of the hidden ones is the use of the 'fisheye eliminator' additive in the finish paint by the guy who repainted the car before you... after doing signs for 45 years i have put on lots of paint... back in the old days we did not have vinyl lettering and had to hand letter with lead based enamel LOTS of truck doors and van bodies. we had more than our share of fisheyes... usually happened when an employee failed to take proper precautions.
no need for really expensive single use brand name preps. good Dawn soap and water and hotter thinner as mentioned before always works. another little trade secret is Bon Ami cleanser. NOT comet or any other brand; just Bon Ami (comes in the gold can). we used to use it a lot in conjunction with wet sanding to get a really good surface for painting / repainting. we also ALWAYS use it on glass prior to gold leafing so that there would be a good bond. and, primer REALLY helps. in the 'fisheye eliminator' additive situation it is virtually the only thing that works on repaint. with some of the enamels we used to letter the doors with; this was outta the question. so we usually went the Bon Ami route with the hottest thinner that would not melt the repaint and then added that hot thinner to the mix of the paint we were lettering with. in rattle cans best to use many thin coats to try to overcome this if it is the problem.
now i work alone and this is one problem that has not popped up for years.
good luck... and if you actually get the color matched rattle cans (expensive): you can use some wet and dry, be VERY careful and take your time, use some rubbing compound and wax and it will be very hard to see where the patch was done.
with fisheye there are usually several issues... one of the hidden ones is the use of the 'fisheye eliminator' additive in the finish paint by the guy who repainted the car before you... after doing signs for 45 years i have put on lots of paint... back in the old days we did not have vinyl lettering and had to hand letter with lead based enamel LOTS of truck doors and van bodies. we had more than our share of fisheyes... usually happened when an employee failed to take proper precautions.
no need for really expensive single use brand name preps. good Dawn soap and water and hotter thinner as mentioned before always works. another little trade secret is Bon Ami cleanser. NOT comet or any other brand; just Bon Ami (comes in the gold can). we used to use it a lot in conjunction with wet sanding to get a really good surface for painting / repainting. we also ALWAYS use it on glass prior to gold leafing so that there would be a good bond. and, primer REALLY helps. in the 'fisheye eliminator' additive situation it is virtually the only thing that works on repaint. with some of the enamels we used to letter the doors with; this was outta the question. so we usually went the Bon Ami route with the hottest thinner that would not melt the repaint and then added that hot thinner to the mix of the paint we were lettering with. in rattle cans best to use many thin coats to try to overcome this if it is the problem.
now i work alone and this is one problem that has not popped up for years.
good luck... and if you actually get the color matched rattle cans (expensive): you can use some wet and dry, be VERY careful and take your time, use some rubbing compound and wax and it will be very hard to see where the patch was done.
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