Fourdyce Creek Closure

[CRUZR66]

Here is a Short list on the Meetings from the NF National Forest is going to have this month and next, all PMC members and ther Friends and others need to see if they can attend these meetings, Take a day off after ward or drive there and back.

I will be attending the First one in Placerville on 7-24, Teusday Night, I know many have to work the next day, but we need to show support on this, It may be standing room only but show up if you can,

I got these Dates off the Pirate 4x4 website, as follows:



7-24 07 7M to 9: PM PLACERVILLE

7-25-07 7M to 9;PM JACKSON

7-26-07 7M to 9M MARKLEVILLE

7-31-07 7M to 9M FOLSOM

8-2-07 7M to 9M PLEASANT HILL



I'LL TRY AND MAKE AS MANY AS THESE MEETING AS I CAN, READ THE ARTICLES ON THE PIRATE BOARD,

ALL FOREST FIRES HAVER BEEN STARTED IN THE PAST BY HIKERS AND FOREST SERVICE PERSONNAL,
NOT 4X4'S OR MOTORCYCLES,

THE IDIOT IN CHARGE OF THE NF, NEEDS TO BE REPLACED WITH A COMPENTENT INDIVIDUAL,, NOT TO CLOSE ALL TRAILS TO MOTOR VECHIVLES AND NOT TO HIKERS? GIVE US A BREAK, AND LOOK AT WHO STRARTS THESE FIRES.

GUNNER

 

[petescoffee]

Information From Pirate on Closure

I copied this information from Pirate's Fordyce Land Use Section

Tinman
Moderator




Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 506 This is just an FYI. This is an e-mail from Ann Westling in response to several questions I asked her:

"Hi Bret - thanks for your help in sharing information with the public on
fire restrictions! The fire season started sooner here on the Tahoe than I
have ever seen in my 25 years here. The Highway Fire in late May (which
was just barely outside the Forest boundary close to the Nevada State line)
was one of the earliest fires I can remember - indicating that conditions
are very dry.
To answer your questions -
1) Why is the TNF the only one in the area that has taken this step to
exclude OHV use on tails? Based on the fire conditions on each forest, the
potential for major fires, and the types of recreation and use patterns,
each forest makes its own decisions regarding when to go into fire
restrictions and what to include in those fire restrictions.
2) Hierarchy of the Forest Service - who made the decision on fire
restrictions? The Forest Supervisor, Steve Eubanks is the line officer in
charge of the Tahoe National Forest and is responsible for the 800,000
acres of public land and supervises about 300 employees on 4 Ranger
Districts. He signed the fire restrictions. In May, fire restrictions
were a discussion topic at the Forest Leadership Team Meeting which
included heads of each of the 4 Ranger Districts, the Fire Management
Officer, Natural Resource Officer, and the Engineer/Public
Service/Recreation Officer, the Deputy Forest Supervisor, and myself. We
had a good discussion on the recreation impacts of restrictions, the fire
season potential, and ways to reduce the chance of a catastrophic fire
hitting the TNF. There was general agreement of the group of the need for
fire restrictions and the specific components included in the restrictions.
3) What monitoring is going to be done on this situation other than
enforcement and what plans are in mind for the future? I am not sure what
you mean by monitoring. This is not the first time we have closed trails
to internal combustion engines - we did it in 2004 when the fire situation
also looked bad.

As for the comments from the "ranger" who someone talked to at the Fordyce
trailhead, I was very concerned about the tone and the specific information
shared. The information was flat out wrong. Fordyce is an established
trail - we are not looking at closing it.

You suggested that we involve the public. We have worked so hard to
involve the public in the route designation process, but fire restrictions
are a different matter. These have to be made by people that have a strong
background in fire and fire prevention as well as natural resource
management. This is not a vote. It involves review of all the fire danger
indices, the fuel stick readings, the forecasts for the year, local
knowledge of the conditions on the forest, constant weather monitoring,
etc. We really do try to balance the desires of the public for enjoying
their National Forest with the likelihood of a fire starting. But we are listening and looking at
options for the remaining fire season. Thanks again for your comments,
Bret - it is important to keep communication open and we thank you for your
efforts to keep the OHV community tied in.

(And for general information, there are red flag warnings for both the east
side and the west side of the TNF today due to expected dry lightning.
Think cool thoughts!)

Ann Westling
Tahoe National Forest
Public Affairs Officer
(530) 478-6205

 

[petescoffee]

Email from TNF

I exchanged a few emails with Ann Westling of TNF this morning regarding the Temporary Closure of Fordyce. One of the items she relayed was an internal message on fire conditions. Please see below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Ann-

I have also enclosed a statement about the dry conditions/extreme fire
activity from a fire behavior specialist on the San Bernardino National
Forest to fellow wildland firefighters,

"Well folks, I want to give everybody a heads up on the burning conditions
that we are experiencing here in the west. As most of you know there have
been numerous (fire) shelter deployments just recently. I just came off
the Inyo Complex where there was an extremely close call. My intent is not
to speak specifically about that incident or any others, but to address the
fuels conditions that we face in this young fire season.

If any of you search the net about fuels indices you will see that here in
California and most of the west the Live Fuel Moisture's are already at or
very near critical levels. Several areas are setting records in ERCs, BIs
and LFM levels. Those of you that know me know that models and numbers do
not particularly impress me, but I will tell you that they impress me this
year. More than that, I have witnessed, and have had others I trust,
witness fire behavior that is quite extreme and above and beyond what one
would normally expect.

I will not muddle this message with numbers and technical gobbledygook, but
I will tell you that when I tried to model the observed fire behavior on
the Inyo Complex I had to drop Live Fuel Moisture level to the minimum the
model would take to come close to the observed rates of spread. Sheeting
(large areas igniting in an almost instantaneous wave), fire whirls and
extreme rates of spread occurred on the Inyo and apparently elsewhere in
the west. It is imperative that we all learn from what has occurred so far
this season and adjust our tactics to take this all into account. " Dan
Felix FBAN SOCAL IIMT3

The Fire Chief for the Tahoe National Forest also just returned from the
Antelope Complex on the Plumas National Forest. She said the fire behavior
was more typical of late summer/fall fires - exceptionally dry conditions -
huge flame lengths - very rapid rate of fire spread - and that the fire had
so much energy it was creating its own wind/weather. Our intent with fire
restrictions is to reduce the potential for these major catastrophic fires
during this very dry year.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is in regards to my question about the duration of the closure of the trail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Ann-
Yes, you are correct that the closure of the Fordyce Trail is due to fire restrictions -
not a permanent closure. It is an established system trail. And yes, we
realize that these restrictions impact OHV users but we tried to find a way to reduce the very real potential for a major fire with some opportunity to continue to enjoy the National Forest. We have permitted the use of Forest System roads but not trails - until fire conditions improve - probably not until we have a couple of good fall storms. This means that there are 2800 miles of road that are still available for use.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is in regard to my question about Fire Permits. Fire Permits are still being given out, but they are for stoves.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From Ann-
Campfire permits are necessary for the use of portable propane type stoves.



Dave Thomas

 

[TRT2]

thanks Dave...

I believe you could also exceptional value by providing letters for us to use... a generic type letter that we can print off, add our name and addy, and mail in, in support of various issues you feel is important.

again, good job PMC Land Use Chair Type guy.

 

[petescoffee]

Thanks Tony. I get the feeling the decision to close the trail for fire reasons, while they say it is the forest supervisors decision, came from higher up the Forest service food chain. This is just a guess based on the internal memo Ann included about the high fire danger.

One thing good that is coming out of the closure is it is getting people concerned and involved. Fortunately, this is only a temporary closure but there are permanent closures about to happen through out the forest with Route designation. Please check out the PMC Land Use section for some recent updates on The Eldorado Forest. They have their EIS available for viewing and meetings scheduled over the next few weeks.

Regarding Fordyce, Bret Preble, AKA Tinman on Pirate has started Friends of Fordyce and there is a Fordyce forum on Pirate. Bret is relaying information as he gets it and appears to be staying in communication with the Forest Service. Closing Fordyce also affects Sierra Trek which is a large income producing event for Cal 4 Wheel Drive Clubs. So this is not going unnoticed.

The problem with temporary closures is we fear that they will turn into permanent closures. Part of this is Conspiracy theory, us against them. US with the fear they are telling us one thing and doing another.

As for letters, right now of bigger concern is the Eldorado EIS. We all need to review it. There is a lot of discussion on the Pirate, Rubicon forum about the EIS. The EIS is some 700 plus pages. With people paying attention to the fire closures I hope they are not forgetting about Route Designation. If I were a conspiracy theory person, I would say they purposely closed the trails do to fire danger to get the EIS out unnoticed. But that would be if I where a conspiracy theorist.

If you want to know anything about closures or route designation do not be shy about asking me or emailing the forest department. IF I don'e know the answer I'll try to find it. The forestry departments have people available to respond to your emails. The email addresses are on their home pages for each district. Links to teh districts are on the PMC Land Use specific Forum section.

Enough rambling.
Dave

 

[petescoffee]

Update that was on Pirate:

Some info on the state of restrictions around Fordyce:

"It has been determined that the road beyond Signal Peak turn off toward Fordyce Lake is a Forest System Road so vehicles are allowed to travel on it to Fordyce Lake. I will also tell you that use on the Rattlesnake Road as relayed by Forest Prevention Officers has been nutz with a number of accidents recently from what I understand OHV vs. OHV and single OHV accidents, but people have had to be air evaced out---that is certainly getting the attention of the Forest Supervisor. The posted speed limit is 10 miles per hour on that road---people need to use caution, be prudent and reasonable travelling that road.

As far as "round two" enforcement to my knowledge means just posting of larger signs whenever we get them--however because of the problems up in that area we are planning to concentrate enforcement, not accepting excuses of not knowing about fire restrictions, and writing more citations in the areas of Pierce and Rattlesnake. Feel free to get the word out."
__________________
Friends of Fordyce