calamaridog said:
Ugliest......next to the STEP SIDE Tundra.
FJ, Liberty,H3,XTerra, Wrangler Limited
- Thread starter okie
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Ugliest......next to the STEP SIDE Tundra.
The biggest reason most people get Diesels is the improved fuel mileage.
If I can ask a stupid question, of everybody whooplahing over the diesel, who has actually owned and driven a diesel 4WD truck? It is not the miracle cure.
Remember that it is the Turbo in the diesel equation that makes it so attractive. Anybody seen the torque curves on Turbo gas vehicles, problem is gas mileage. Also see how much TQ a Turbo Diesel makes below 1000 RPM and above 4000 RPM. I have driven enough Turbo Diesel vehicles to know that the have very good attributes and also bad ones.
Very attractive for increasing your fuel range. Pain in the ass on daily driving, especialy if you like to drive fast and want to climb long big hills with a big load FAST. They can't rev so you are constantly stuck in a higher gear or lower speed.
So pick your poisen carefully, for every upside there is a downside as well. If you are used to a big gas engine, it is going to take quite bit to get used to a TD. Instant throttle response, hard power from idle and long hard TQ curves are a thing of the past, but you will get a good deal more MPG.
If I can ask a stupid question, of everybody whooplahing over the diesel, who has actually owned and driven a diesel 4WD truck? It is not the miracle cure.
Remember that it is the Turbo in the diesel equation that makes it so attractive. Anybody seen the torque curves on Turbo gas vehicles, problem is gas mileage. Also see how much TQ a Turbo Diesel makes below 1000 RPM and above 4000 RPM. I have driven enough Turbo Diesel vehicles to know that the have very good attributes and also bad ones.
Very attractive for increasing your fuel range. Pain in the ass on daily driving, especialy if you like to drive fast and want to climb long big hills with a big load FAST. They can't rev so you are constantly stuck in a higher gear or lower speed.
So pick your poisen carefully, for every upside there is a downside as well. If you are used to a big gas engine, it is going to take quite bit to get used to a TD. Instant throttle response, hard power from idle and long hard TQ curves are a thing of the past, but you will get a good deal more MPG.
Ocelot said:4.7L iForce V8:
Engine Type: Petrol
Engine Capacity (cc): 4664
Engine Description: 8cyl/DOHC/4v
Maximum Power: 170kW @ 4800rpm
Maximum Torque: 410Nm @ 3400rpm
Combined Fuel Economy: 16.4 L/100km (14mpg US)
4.2L Turbo-Diesel I6:
Engine Type: Diesel
Engine Capacity (cc): 4164
Engine Description: 6cyl/SOHC/4V
Forced Induction System: Turbo
Maximum Power: 150kW @ 3400rpm
Maximum Torque: 430Nm @ 1400rpm
Combined Fuel Economy: 11.2 L/100km (21mpg US)
---
So there you have it, the diesel makes more torque, and peaks 2000rpm earlier than the Petrol, and gets way better fuel economy... There would be no reason to buy the gasser.
Interesting stats (Aus I believe),
I have the same power for the diesel, but 175 KW and 434NM for the V8 at the same engine speeds (and that was before the VVTi engine). Also the fuel consumptiom for the TD was 15L/100km. South Africa listing.
If I remember correclty diesel fuel has something like 10-15% more energy than gas, so don't count on too much there. FOr a similar vehicle driven the same dont expect a massive increase in MPG with a TD.
Diesels are a nice option, but be prepared to live with the flip side of the coin. Besides the FJ will never get the 4.2 TD (way too big). The one that will fit is the 3.0 TD, which in my mind is not impressive at all. Go read up on the Prado120 3.0TD tests and see if you are willing to live with it.
They need to market a LC 78 Munster in north america, and show GM, Crysler and Nissan, what a real off road truck is!
JEEP are like tampons, every pussy needs one!!!
JEEP are like tampons, every pussy needs one!!!
Ummm, since when did a high pinion 8" diff become comparable to "3/4 ton" drivetrain??
"Toyota engines tend to have less parasitic loss." So Calamari, have you measured this or something?? And compared to what??
When I talk about underpowered, I am not talking 1/4 racing times. I am talking about how the 4.7 is weak when it comes to towing power. My bro-in-law is a contractor with a brand new Tundra and he can't stand towing anything because of lack of power. Sorry, VVTi doesn't solve for the lack of displacement.
Don't get me wrong, I am excited for when Toyota comes out with a new, bigger displacement V8. I am not blasting Toyota as a whole, just the fact that the 4.7 is weak for its application. If you think I am crazy then go read the majority of magazines out there who all tend to agree that the 4.7 is in need of replacement.
Maybe I am just a different Toyota owner compared to the rest of you. Sometimes it seems like some of you think that Toyota can do no wrong. I just call it as it is. There are things I like about my Cruiser, and things I don't like. At least I can admit it.
"Toyota engines tend to have less parasitic loss." So Calamari, have you measured this or something?? And compared to what??
When I talk about underpowered, I am not talking 1/4 racing times. I am talking about how the 4.7 is weak when it comes to towing power. My bro-in-law is a contractor with a brand new Tundra and he can't stand towing anything because of lack of power. Sorry, VVTi doesn't solve for the lack of displacement.
Don't get me wrong, I am excited for when Toyota comes out with a new, bigger displacement V8. I am not blasting Toyota as a whole, just the fact that the 4.7 is weak for its application. If you think I am crazy then go read the majority of magazines out there who all tend to agree that the 4.7 is in need of replacement.
Maybe I am just a different Toyota owner compared to the rest of you. Sometimes it seems like some of you think that Toyota can do no wrong. I just call it as it is. There are things I like about my Cruiser, and things I don't like. At least I can admit it.
DBS311 said:
You want a tow truck, go get one.
I want a Land Cruiser for longevity, comfort and and off-road capability....so I have two.
I never expected a Land Cruiser to excell in towing just like I wouldn't expect a F350 to excell in wheeling.
For what it (the 100) was designed for it fills the bill perfectly in my opinion and overall sets the standard. Even with my 35's the truck has planty of power (for me).
I agree, for the Tundra, the 4.7L is underpowered. The 100 is no speedster either, but since it is so refined I honestly don't care about 0-60 numbers. On the 4Runner, 4.7L is a speedster.
However, on a work truck, I would def. want a big V8 and Diesel option. Toyota is lagging behind but will catch up soon.
There is good reason the full size diesel trucks (Ram, GM HD, etc) are popular work truck options.
However, on a work truck, I would def. want a big V8 and Diesel option. Toyota is lagging behind but will catch up soon.
There is good reason the full size diesel trucks (Ram, GM HD, etc) are popular work truck options.
Smart people don't buy gas trucks for towing, smart people don't buy V8's period. I can't think of a reason to have a V8 in a truck unless maybe you are hitting on the girl at the gas station. Toyota isn't stupied there a reason for everything they do. I just wish they would bring the real LC's back to north america!
DBS311,
If you think the 4.7 is underpowered for a 1/2 ton truck then you are probably like most people who don't understand just what a 1/2 ton truck is actually designed for. 1/2 ton trucks are NOT for contractors or heavy towing, unless the users have no real understanding of vehicle function and overload their trucks.
It sounds to me like your brother-in-law needed a working truck, not a Tundra. There are several heavy duty models that would meet his needs.
Hopefully Toyota will get a clue when they design the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and offer a larger displacement V8 and a diesel.
The 4.7 is not weak for it's application, it moves a 1/2 ton truck (Tundra), a 4runner, and even my Land Cruiser just fine. I compares favorably with other small V8's from Ford, Chevy, and Dodge.
I find plenty "wrong" with Toyota and I am willing to explore other brands too. I just keep coming back to my underpowered Toyotas whenever I stray. I find plenty "wrong" with my LC too, but I'm pleased they improve the vehicle with every generation. Can't wait to see the new 2007 model.
If you think the 4.7 is underpowered for a 1/2 ton truck then you are probably like most people who don't understand just what a 1/2 ton truck is actually designed for. 1/2 ton trucks are NOT for contractors or heavy towing, unless the users have no real understanding of vehicle function and overload their trucks.
It sounds to me like your brother-in-law needed a working truck, not a Tundra. There are several heavy duty models that would meet his needs.
Hopefully Toyota will get a clue when they design the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and offer a larger displacement V8 and a diesel.
The 4.7 is not weak for it's application, it moves a 1/2 ton truck (Tundra), a 4runner, and even my Land Cruiser just fine. I compares favorably with other small V8's from Ford, Chevy, and Dodge.
I find plenty "wrong" with Toyota and I am willing to explore other brands too. I just keep coming back to my underpowered Toyotas whenever I stray. I find plenty "wrong" with my LC too, but I'm pleased they improve the vehicle with every generation. Can't wait to see the new 2007 model.
Eric Winkworth said:
Hilarious! In case you hadn't noticed, North America has the best Cruiser ever. The UZJ100.
calamaridog said:
Haven't you heard? The BJ70 was the last real Land Cruiser.
FZJ80 or FJ40 would win my votes for the BEST cruisers ever (In the US market). True to form, and timeless in appeal.
The UZJ100 has an excellent reliability advantage over the competition, but little else. There are other SUV's with more luxury, more power, better towing, better payload, better ride, etc. IMO, the UZJ100 is the result of years of compromise. You end up with a vehicle that does lots of things WELL but nothing GREAT.... Just my opinion (after 5 days of moving to a new house, I am feeling a little opinionated )...
The UZJ100 has an excellent reliability advantage over the competition, but little else. There are other SUV's with more luxury, more power, better towing, better payload, better ride, etc. IMO, the UZJ100 is the result of years of compromise. You end up with a vehicle that does lots of things WELL but nothing GREAT.... Just my opinion (after 5 days of moving to a new house, I am feeling a little opinionated
)...
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I know that 1/2 ton trucks are not for heavy work or designed for heavy towing, but when the competition can tow several thousand more pounds and has a payload weight significantly better, then I think Toyota should step it up. 1/2 ton trucks are doing practically the same thing today that 3/4 ton trucks were doing not to long ago. Maybe Toyota is trying to stay true to the 1/2 ton roots, I have no idea, but when the Tacoma is knocking on the Tundra's door when it comes to specs, something is wrong.
expeditionswest said:IMO, the UZJ100 is the result of years of compromise. You end up with a vehicle that does lots of things WELL but nothing GREAT.... Just my opinion (after 5 days of moving to a new house, I am feeling a little opinionated
Never wheeling with you again.
Man, don't move again for years! You need to run Maverick Mountain in your Jeep and let me know what you think. That's an order!
I want to take my 80 up there though it sounds risky.Also off topic....what do you think of Desoto Mine Trail? Another 80 wann-do.
Hey John, I thought you would like that. Of course opinions are like ____
Smiley Rock trail is fun. I think you would like that one... Similar to Sibley Mansion but more challenging. There is also the Mingus Mangler. :eek
Smiley Rock trail is fun. I think you would like that one... Similar to Sibley Mansion but more challenging. There is also the Mingus Mangler. :eek
Riad said:
Altough gear ratio went from 4.6/4.9 to 3.7, 05 Xterras have a lower crawl ratio, 42.3 vs 33.5 because of their much lower 1st gear (4.4 vs. 3.6) and low range (2.6 vs. 2) and a much better highway ratio 2.8 vs 3.8.
That makes 05s more capable than 04s to me (plus rear locker)
Ocelot said:
You have not driven a modern diesel... They don't last long with out an alternator.
Trust me. I have owned a ford
About an hour running. It was a piece of junk. I have owned 3 powerstrokes. I sold the 01 Excursion and took a bath (I owned it outright thank goodness)I buy a toyota diesel ANY DAY. I won't buy American ever again if I don't have to. Part of the attraction to an FJ vs a Tacoma for me is that it is built in Japan. No american auto workers hand touch it. I am EXTREMELY bitter. My 01 Excursion was towed 12 times, my 04 F550 has been towed 3 times and my 05 GMC 5500 4x4 would not start Thursday.
I actually don't want my FJ as a diesel. Diesel here today is 2.79, gas is 2.49. It gets down to -40 here in the winter. Maintainence on the diesel is more expensive (more $$$ filters more oil) I walk to work so mileage is irrelevant to me. Gas could go up to $10.00 a gallon and it would not affect me to much.
Howard
Quality isn't job #1 anymore.
