Father & Son First Expo: NEWB, Need help

[fjatheart]

Okay, here is the skinny.

I'm 32 and my Dad is 62, we both have mildly built FJ-40's with lockers, winch, sliders, mild lifts, 33 inch mt's, etc. We've done Tellico, Uwharrie, and some trails around Chattanooga, but we've got he itch to travel cross country. WE DON'T WANT TO TRY THIS IN EITHER of our 40's

With that being said, we would like to buy an Expedition style rig or build one. We're considering FJ-80's, FZJ-80's, 100's or 3rd gen to 4th gen 4Runner's.

I know this is a loaded post with tons of opinions to come, but with a max of say $12k, could we find a rig or build a road worthy rig to take us from Nashville, TN to Moab and back? It's a dream from 13 years ago to venture outside of our Southeast US comfort zone. My Dad has never traveled any further than the eastern side of the Mississippi river. It would be a big deal to get him on the road for an adventure with the end point be Moab.

I currently have a stock '03 4Runner Limited, but it's the wife's and we just got it with 65k on the clock and she is not gonna let us have it. I had thought's of building this into a mild expo rig, but it's gonna be several years from now, IF she let's me.

SO, where the heck do I begin?! Are dependable, already build rigs on MUD or expeditionportal.com or anywhere else out there for $12k, give or take? Should we start from scratch??

Thanks and thanks for taking it easy on a NEWBIE.

 

[urbanmtb]

it's always cheaper and more rewarding to do it yourself. what kind of time frame are you looking at?

you'll love red rock country. too bad I just tossed my auto listing magazine I got down in moab a couple of weeks ago. I'm pretty sure there were a couple of decent deals in there.

 

[fjatheart]

We'd like to go this summer and if we cant build or find a rig by then, then would would look at December.

I agree on the reward of building your own, but this is more about the travel experience with my Dad.

I'll have to search around Moab.

Thanks

 

[NorCalBorn]

Looking at your proposed budget, I can say this..we did a 2nd-Gen 4Runner that's now a 5 speed and 3.0 that's in great shape. Not including the additional rebuild we did, we spent a little over $13k in total, with the baselining process, and it's b/c the thing was still cherry.. If you want to go ballsy, include a 3.4 swap. That will put you roughly around $16-18k for all out setup on an older not so cherry Runner with solid running gear and little or no gremlins.

For your other ideas, well, honestly, most equipped 80's are gonna blow away your $12k budget, unless someone is $-tight/desperate to offload for funds, and well, you can (possibly) find a 100 for $12k, but then you'll still want to get a hold of Christo @ Slee for some stuff. Not even including the baselining of either of those two choices so you can know it's gonna be reliable, not trust/hope it is.

I'm hoping this all makes sense?

If/when it happens be sure to start a thread in this part of the forum like everyone else does so you can hang out, play catch-up, and get some local knowledge from fellow Mudder's. ie: https://forum.ih8mud.com/trails-events-expeditions/272562-alaska-trip-thread-here-goes.html

 

[mikeprince]

Lets break this down into a a few big buckets: driving comfort and space, mileage, highway ride, mild offroad capablity, hard core off-road capability, and cost.

If either of you are over 6'1" or so then the 4runner and tacoma might start to be a little tighter. So something as simple as driver and passenger comfort could push you into an 80.

The 80 is not only a little bigger, the driveline is also a lot beefier. Upside is awesome ruggedness, but the downside is worse mileage. Throw a lift and bigger tires on, and it gets even worse. Run some calculations on the distances and see if that handful of mpg makes a big enough dent in your trip budget to make a difference.

I think ride quality will depend more on your final suspension setup and tires than initial starting point, but the IFS tacoma/4runner probably has a bit of an advantage both on the highway and on washboard roads.

All the rigs should do fine for mild offoading in nearly stock form. The 80 could be very inexpensively lifted with 50mm spacers and some 255/85r16 tires for a decent expo rig on the cheap. Bonus is that the 255 would probably fit in the stock spare tire location.

Hard core offroading usually means more cost so my assumption is that this is not a need, so it's not worth figuring out the relative costs.

Finally we get to the overall cost. A 150K mi 95-97 80 will set you back ~$7K. Baselining it yourself is another $1K or so, and lets add another $2K for a basic lift and tires. An 80 is pretty capable with these mild mods and should be fine for expo. Notice I've left out bumpers, sliders, and a roof rack. Do you really need those? Keep it low key, use all the space you'll have inside with only two people needing seats, and you'll probably be fine. Bonus if you get an 80 with lockers

A 90s 4runner or tacoma can probably be had for around $5-9K, which gives you $4-8K within you $13K budget.

Like I said before, you can blow a lot of money on accessories, but Toyotas are pretty good right out of the box, with the upper hand going to a locked 80, which is a high end Toyota on 1 ton running gear.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

An 80 is the truck you want for this adventure. A very mild build will get you everywhere you want, especially in Moab.

I'd recommend a good running 93-97 FZJ80, an OME 2.5 heavy lift and some 33 inch (285/75/16) tires. You could build this truck in a weekend. I'll bet you could get on the trip for under $10k. At the end of the trip you still have one of the best 4x4s ever imported to the USA which you could keep or sell for close to the same money you paid.

 

[fjatheart]

Lets break this down into a a few big buckets: driving comfort and space, mileage, highway ride, mild offroad capablity, hard core off-road capability, and cost.

If either of you are over 6'1" or so then the 4runner and tacoma might start to be a little tighter. So something as simple as driver and passenger comfort could push you into an 80.

The 80 is not only a little bigger, the driveline is also a lot beefier. Upside is awesome ruggedness, but the downside is worse mileage. Throw a lift and bigger tires on, and it gets even worse. Run some calculations on the distances and see if that handful of mpg makes a big enough dent in your trip budget to make a difference.

I think ride quality will depend more on your final suspension setup and tires than initial starting point, but the IFS tacoma/4runner probably has a bit of an advantage both on the highway and on washboard roads.

All the rigs should do fine for mild offoading in nearly stock form. The 80 could be very inexpensively lifted with 50mm spacers and some 255/85r16 tires for a decent expo rig on the cheap. Bonus is that the 255 would probably fit in the stock spare tire location.

Hard core offroading usually means more cost so my assumption is that this is not a need, so it's not worth figuring out the relative costs.

Finally we get to the overall cost. A 150K mi 95-97 80 will set you back ~$7K. Baselining it yourself is another $1K or so, and lets add another $2K for a basic lift and tires. An 80 is pretty capable with these mild mods and should be fine for expo. Notice I've left out bumpers, sliders, and a roof rack. Do you really need those? Keep it low key, use all the space you'll have inside with only two people needing seats, and you'll probably be fine. Bonus if you get an 80 with lockers

A 90s 4runner or tacoma can probably be had for around $5-9K, which gives you $4-8K within you $13K budget.

Like I said before, you can blow a lot of money on accessories, but Toyotas are pretty good right out of the box, with the upper hand going to a locked 80, which is a high end Toyota on 1 ton running gear.

An 80 is the truck you want for this adventure. A very mild build will get you everywhere you want, especially in Moab.

I'd recommend a good running 93-97 FZJ80, an OME 2.5 heavy lift and some 33 inch (285/75/16) tires. You could build this truck in a weekend. I'll bet you could get on the trip for under $10k. At the end of the trip you still have one of the best 4x4s ever imported to the USA which you could keep or sell for close to the same money you paid.

These are good things to think about. I'm 5'8 and my Dad might be 5'10, so I think we could fit fine in a 4runner, but the extra space of an 80 for sleeping and gear does sound appealing. I've never wheel anything as big as an 80, but I'm also use to tight, brush/canopy type trails. I know Moab and trails farther West are a bit different.

I also didn't realize the 80 has a 1 ton running gear. I like rigs that lean toward the over built side of things.

Thanks again for the "food for thought"!

If you guys happen to know of locked 80's lift or no lift, let me know. Thanks!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I also didn't realize the 80 has a 1 ton running gear. I like rigs that lean toward the over built side of things.

!

80's rule in Moab. With little brush and wide open trails the 80 just eats up the ledges and steeps. The solid front axle will out flex and is far mor robust than any IFS front end. It really would be perfect for your intended trip. The only penalty is burning 50% more fuel.

It doesn't really have 1 ton running gear. I don't know where that came from. It does have nice running gear and the FF rear axle in particular is a nice bonus. IT's 1/2 -3/4 ton equivalent. Look at real 1 Ton stuff and you'll see what I mean. No one would compare say a 14 bolt and an 80 FF rear for equivalent strength.

 

[askeyey]

My $.02 favors the build it yourself approach. There are a lot of nice expo rigs out there for sale, but the volume of unknowns about what the PO did would never make me comfortable.

For example, I have a loose wire on my truck that I haven't gotten around to fixing yet. It comes loose about every three or four months. When it comes loose the engine dies ( fuel pump wire). It takes me all of two minutes to fix but could take you hours to trouble shoot and diagnose. Image what else the PO could have done that could fail that he forgot to tell you about.

Build it yourself... get to know the truck inside and out and it will pay dividends out on the road when things act up.

Look forward to seeing what you decide.

 

[urbanmtb]

the volume of unknowns about what the PO did would never make me comfortable.

if you build it yourself you know what you do and don't quite trust. if you get one already built, it makes it hard to trust any of it until you've had it long enough and put it through its paces.

 

[stonemasoncruiser]

When i was in my 20s I'd say take the 40, it's an adventure!! So I did.
Then in my 30s an fj55 felt like a caddy in comparison.
Now that I'm 45 only the 80 will do. Total comfort and dependable.
In the past 25 plus years I've traveled, wheeled, and camped out of over
a dozen different vehicles, including multiple trips to Moab. By far my
favorite has been my 97 Fzj80 Landcruiser. 12k would easily fill your needs
in an 80.

 

[1leglance]

I will agree with most others that an 80 will fit the adventure nicely...
and agree with another poster than you should pass on the bumpers/racks/major mods and only do the things you REALLY need...
sliders/skids and a fridge
yeah I consider my fridge a must have, no ice to lug around, no soggy food, and ice cream in summer.

But in your case I would say that pulling the rear seats, fabing up a sleep inside setup, packing the basics and hitting the road is the best way to spend your coin.

Don't forget the pics!