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Electrical Problem With Starter

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by funkymm, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. funkymm

    funkymm

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    The first question I have is are the starters for an 1986 FJ60 & 1989 FJ62 the same. If so what would cause the engine to cut out between 600rpm & 1500rpm. When I changed from the 1986 starter which was bad to the 1989 I instantly had this problem. I also noticed that when the negetive battery cable is disconnected I still have the door buzzer that works which I know isn't right. Could I have and ignition system grounding issue? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Also above 1500rpm's the truck works fine at 600rpms it will idle.

    I figured I would add a little more of the symtoms. The truck will idle but it is a rolling type idle. Like it gets above a certain RPM then cuts out until the RPM's go back below another.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2005
  2. Fearnofish!

    Fearnofish!

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    The starter has nothing to do with the idleing. I bet while replacing hte starter a vacuum line came loose and is causing the intermittent surging of RPM. Maybe an advance line. That cutting back of RPM sound like a vacuum thing to me. And for grounding... not sure about negative battery connection being the quintiescential ground but the whole system is grounded out 3 or 4 times to the block and the frame and the body. There may be enough of a sink there for a low voltage ding-dong door thing keep on goin'.
    Good Luck
     
  3. Landpimp

    Landpimp GOLD Star

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    yes the starters are the same.

    and I agree with the above, ya prolly knocked a hose off when replacing the starter.
     
  4. funkymm

    funkymm

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    Not It

    Thank You! I will check it out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  5. funkymm

    funkymm

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    Ok, I checked it out and all of the vacuum hoses are connected properly. I am still getting the loping idle (Well more like it cuts out and isn't getting spark between 600 to 1500 rpm's). When I give it gas it will still run without missing above 1500rpm's. Could this have something to do with my coil. I have a DUI distributer which comes with a built in coil. Is it possible that it recieved a power surge which messed it up. Again I am still nagged about the door buzzer going off without the negetive batter post connected. I know for sure that it didn't do this until after the starter change.

    Again thank you for your suggestion on what it could be and any more help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  6. Fearnofish!

    Fearnofish!

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    So vacuum lines are right, looping idle between 600 and 1500... you had no problems prior to the starter install. Hmmm....

    I have that same dizzy and did not experience this problem. I also have recently replaced my starter. I am all smogged up too. Hmm...

    I am tempted to still say vac advance line but you checked that. For a future project you can seal up the vac lines so no leaks with vacuum grease (or a little chapstick on the trail). I doubt that the high energy ignition would do that. If it happens when it only warm or only cold I would say it may be related to a fuel delivery issue and not a spart issue. Maybe you put some weight on the air filter which put some pressure on teh carb body and you created a leak at the base which at the right vac pressure causes you to loose.... Hell, it could be anything like that. YOu could use a little soapy water to check foir leaks around your carb at idle. Seal up hte advance line iwth vac grease.

    What happens if you retard the dizzy a bit? You'll speed up the idle but does it take care of hte problem in hte middle? It may tell you if it is even realted to the dizzy.
    Sorry for hte rambling, thinking and typing.
     
  7. lovetoski

    lovetoski SILVER Star

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    This is a stumper...I don't know what the problem is, but from what you've said so far I keep coming back to the problem being related to the starter swap. That said, it might be worth checking to see of all battery/starter/ignition connections are clean, tight, etc. Is the starter grounded properly? Did the fusible get funked up? Could it be the idle cut-off solenoid? Do you have A/C? Is it the A/C idle up circut kicking in?
     
  8. funkymm

    funkymm

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    I agree the starter swap is when this all began to happen. The starter was functional in the FJ62 The connections appear to be good condition on it also. The starter is grounded to the frame and I used the same connector and grounding point as the original starter. How would I check to see if it is the idle cut-off solenoid and where is it located? I do have A/C and it is operational. The problem happens when the truck is cold or warm (At least partially warmed up because the point where it seems to loose power is right at the idle point). It possibly could be the fuseable link. Is it possible to have a faulty fuseable link that still will allow the starter and the other components to work properly? Would it be prudent for me to change this out and eliminate it as a possible problem?

    Thanks for taking the time to help me figure this out.

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  9. Fearnofish!

    Fearnofish!

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    IF the fusable link is out aint notin gonna run.

    If you put back in the old starter do you think it would turn over the truck a few times? YOu gain some insight. Clean your battery terminals and verfiy all your grounds? Perhaps the truck vibrates at a rpm that shakes ground but when it planes out stays connected. Kind of a long shot but ya know...

    You could also put back int eh old strater and bump start it to see if it'll repeat the problem.
     
  10. funkymm

    funkymm

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    I thought of that, but while taking the old one out I found the problem why it wasn't working. The clip that goes to the ignition from the starter was hanging by 1 strand of wire and when I went to remove the clip it completely seperated from the starter. I am tempted to circumvent the stock wiring to see if I can see if it is a bad ground issue. The batteries are brand new as is the terminals.

    Thank you for your response.
     
  11. Fearnofish!

    Fearnofish!

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    Check your starter ground to the frame as well. Or maybe the ground to the block. I have (from experience) lost hair over a low voltage problem that kept me thinking I had a bad alterntor when infact the block ground was corroded and couldn't see it for the little heater hose up front. :doh:

    So I am also guessing you replaced the starter wire? Correct gauge?
     
  12. funkymm

    funkymm

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    I am using the stock wiring. Now that you mention it the ground wire from the frame to the starter did appear to be corroded by the frame where it connects. I will remove and clean or replace this. The others appear to be in good condition and not corroded. I will post later with results from trying this fix.

    Thanks
     
  13. funkymm

    funkymm

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    I cleaned the ground from the frame to the starter and still have the same problem. I guess this makes me ask the question of whether I should try to circumvent the stock wiring?
     
  14. Fearnofish!

    Fearnofish!

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    The starter, battery, alternator, fusable link, and ignition are all part of a "harness" section called the ignition circuit (per my haynes manual). The problem could be anywhere in there or even in another area like fuel delivery. I would be willing to bet, however, that it's in the ignition path. I am sure it is a pain in the ash, but I would change out the new starter for the old one (and fix the wiring clip on the old before installing it). Honest, that's what I would do. If there's no change and you still have the problem then it is due to something that you broke or coincidentally failed during the first installation. Teh starter for the 62 may very well have some goofy wiring in it or perphaps the 60 has something built in that the 62 had in the "computer". Damn 62's. :mad:
     
  15. funkymm

    funkymm

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    Do you think that the ground issue could be because of a faulty SAFETY CANCEL SWITCH or CLUTCH SWITCH? Apparently the SAFETY CANCEL SWITCH allows the trucks to start on an incline without the clutch being engaged.
     
  16. Landpimp

    Landpimp GOLD Star

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    no such thing on a 60.

     
  17. Fearnofish!

    Fearnofish!

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    Second that. never seen or read about such a thing in a the haynes manual. My vote is still to repair the pos hookup on the old one and swap the new for the old and see if you still have the problem. It will at least give you insight if you accidentally damaged something during the install.
     
  18. funkymm

    funkymm

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    Thank you!

    I am just reaching I guess. I recently bypassed all of the wiring to the starter by running jumper wires and nothing appears to be bad. The weird thing is still the ground. I can actually get the starter to kick over (But only quickly) without the ground cable attached to the battery (Weird thing is the ground issue isn't there after I do this). I switched batteries, tryed the wire changes and I am still stumped.
     
  19. funkymm

    funkymm

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    Yep, doing this right now for my sanity. I will post with results.
     
  20. funkymm

    funkymm

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    Figured it out

    Ended up being the ignition module. Went and picked up a new one installed it and she is purring like a kitten.