Electric Wall Heater

[Ebag333]

I'm getting ready to replace some uber cheap baseboard heaters, and looking for something a little better. It's going to be going the baby's room (about 100 sq feet), so gotta keep the happy by getting something kid friendly. (Part of the reason why I'm not a fan of the generic baseboard heaters, little fingers tend to stick themselves or random items into places they shouldn't be.)

This would be the primary heat source for the room for now, down the road will eventually be superseded by a whole house unit (but would stay in place as secondary/supplemental unit).

Couple of thoughts:

• Current heaters are 220, so that's already been ran.
• Should have some decent features, doesn't have to be fully programmable but something better than a dial that doesn't heat consistently.
• As mentioned before, kid friendly.
• Something that doesn't look like it was invented in the worst of the 70's/80's would be nice.
• Hopefully doesn't break the bank. (Have found a few that seem to fit the bill, but $600? Seriously?)

Anyone got any recommendations for one?

 

[cruiser88]

Oh man dad loved these things but the power bill every month was enough to make a power house wanna go on shut down every month.

Personally I would not however they are safer than electric baseboard heat

 

[Ebag333]

Yeah, the costs suck big time. Had an electric bill that broke $400 last winter, thanks to doing major remodeling on the kitchen in the dead of winter (lots of in and out traffic). Doesn't help that I'm in a 1914 home with virtually no insulation and original windows.

I've been working heavily on insulating, every room I can insulation goes into the walls and ceiling. The baby's room has some of the best insulation in it (and the only new window) so a wall heater wouldn't be too bad in there, especially since it's a small room.

About half the house is heated primarily by a gas fireplace we installed last year (the month after our $400 power bill) so we're moving in the right direction, just a matter of coming up with the time and money......

 

[titanpat57]

Can you run a loop of hot waer baseboard?

Then just add on as you need....the electric is a quick fix, but that's about all it's got going for it.

I also agree about the scary hot thing, esp. with the lil' uns

 

[splitshot]

Can you run a loop of hot waer?

Need to add hops to get waer.

 

[Ebag333]

Can you run a loop of hot waer baseboard?

Then just add on as you need....the electric is a quick fix, but that's about all it's got going for it.

Quick fix is okay, but if price is similar I'm okay with a more effective quick fix.

One problem with hot water heating is that it doesn't appear to be particularly inexpensive. I'm not afraid to DIY (which could be a bad thing) so the install cost doesn't worry me, but everything else ain't cheap.

The advantage there I guess is once you have the base components it's easy to add on to.

Hmm....was originally planning on a gas furnace, but a gas boiler seems to be about as efficient. Just uber expensive.

I also agree about the scary hot thing, esp. with the lil' uns

Yup, which is why I'd like one that's programmable, so I can keep the temps low and only kick it up when really necessary.

 

[bigndn]

Why not one of those little radiant heat gadgets? Looks like a cube, cool to the touch, but heats a room very effectively I am told.

 

[Ebag333]

Why not one of those little radiant heat gadgets? Looks like a cube, cool to the touch, but heats a room very effectively I am told.

If you're talking about the ones that are sold on TV and are "400x more efficient than other heaters!" they're pretty much snake oil. Yeah they're cool to the touch, but they're just a couple of infrared bulbs and a fan.

If you're thinking of something else, post a link, I'd like to see it.





Anyone use radiant floor heat under carpet? I know that it's not nearly as effective as hardwood or tile, but cost should be pretty cheap and the would love it.

 

[cruiser88]

Soft heat?

Yea thats a good idea

Can you run a loop of hot waer baseboard?

Then just add on as you need....the electric is a quick fix, but that's about all it's got going for it.

I also agree about the scary hot thing, esp. with the lil' uns

 

[bigndn]

If you're talking about the ones that are sold on TV and are "400x more efficient than other heaters!" they're pretty much snake oil. Yeah they're cool to the touch, but they're just a couple of infrared bulbs and a fan.

If you're thinking of something else, post a link, I'd like to see it.

Anyone use radiant floor heat under carpet? I know that it's not nearly as effective as hardwood or tile, but cost should be pretty cheap and the would love it.

Not sure. My bro has one in his kids' room and swears by it. I'll ask.

Sent from my junk thru thin air

 

[BattleWagon]

1st off, take a look at your kids room, weather proof the windows, can lights, look at some storm windows or blinds. That will make the efficiency of your heating choice that much more effective as it is way cheaper to retain heat than it is to create it.

The cadet wall units are OK, just get one with a remote t-stat and a fan. The issue is that they do not do anything for bringing fresh air into your kid's room (which is important) so if you get one, just make sure you crack a window for a bit (sounds counter intuitive after I just recommended air sealing but at least it is controlled and you are drawing air from the right place instead of your attic, garage or crawlspace.)

The radiant options are gonna be tough because you'd need a spendy boiler and electric floor heat is inefficient. And again you are faced with the lack of fresh air or at least the filtration an exchanger nets you. Plus as you mentioned you want a thermal mass to retain the heat created and carpet without some sort of concrete or gyp isn't a good medium.

A good long term and short term option would be a remote mini split but you would want to install some jumper ducts in the walls so you could heat more than just your child's room with it. They provide heating and cooling and some have ERV or HRVs built in which provide efficient fresh air.

Post a pic of your home or at least some specs as far as windows, insulation (ceiling, walls, floor?) and vintage and I'll try and help more.

 

[Ebag333]

Good stuff BattleWagon.

House is 1914 vintage, but the room is an add on that was fairly recently redone. Has the only new window in it, most of the house has original windows except for a couple aluminum ones.

Not sure if outside wall is insulated or not, but doesn't feel cold to the touch and is the short side anyway. So even if it is not, not much heat lost there.

Floor is not insulated, but again that is not a big heat loss (10% or less of heat is lost through the floor on average).

Ceiling was not insulated until I filled it with loose fill fiberglass. Due to the construction of the roof, it was about 6" inches thick at shortest point, rising to about 3 feet thick over a 9 foot span. It will settle since it is loose fill, and yes I know 3 feet is WAY over the max recommended amount. I did that because we have NO access without opening a wall, so while the wall was open I did not want to waste the chance. Plus loose fill is cheap.

Fresh air isn't too much of an issue. Most 1914 homes leak like a sieve, and ours is no different. We keep the door open at least a bit, and will crack the window if necessary.


So, to sum up, not a whole lot can be done to further improve the efficiency of his room, at least not cheaply or easily.

The only reason I'm even considering electric heat is that is by far the best insulated room, and it is very small (about 10x9). I could get an under carpet radiant heat strip (about 4x6) and thermostat for a couple hundred bucks. With the door mostly shut that should keep his room pretty warm during the winter, and shouldn't be too terribly expensive.

I'm leaning towards the radiant floor heat until we install ducting and a furnace or heat pump.

 

[BattleWagon]

I would recommend a cadet style over the electric heat mat, especially if your floor is uninsulated. More than half the heat will be lost to your crawlspace as heat energy transfers from hot to cold and the delta from your crawl and subfloor will be greater than that of your room to subfloor. I think 3' of insulation in your ceiling is great, more the better as it is the easiest and cheapest of your 6 sides to insulate. Most heat lost is through air leakage (30-40%) focus on sealing your windows and doors. You could blow in insulation through your drywall, they cut a 6" hole at the top and fill it, I would highly recommend floor insulation as well. Hot air rises, heat itself dissipates by conduction and you're gonna lose a ton through the floor.

If this is temporary, I would just buy a little plug in electric radiator. Just noticed you're in Medford, Go Ducks (I grew up in Eugene, live in Portland now.)

 

[Ebag333]

I would recommend a cadet style over the electric heat mat, especially if your floor is uninsulated.

Is this what you're thinking of?

Electric Floor Heating by Danfoss LX : Pacific Northwest U.S. market

Looks like that is only for tile/hardwood, not carpet.

Most heat lost is through air leakage (30-40%) focus on sealing your windows and doors. You could blow in insulation through your drywall, they cut a 6" hole at the top and fill it, I would highly recommend floor insulation as well. Hot air rises, heat itself dissipates by conduction and you're gonna lose a ton through the floor.

The room is pretty air tight, when we keep it closed up it feels very 'stale' (unlike the rest of the house).

We're likely going to be residing the addition next year, if so we'll have the opportunity to fill with insulation and even wrap it.

Floor insulation is on the list of things to do, but pretty low on that list. We insulated a large amount of the floor and found it did little to reduce our heating/cooling expenses. It did make our feet slightly more comfortable though, so was worth it.

We also insulated two rooms walls (kitchen and a bedroom), and that helped cut our electric bill a bit, but was again more comfort than cost savings.

So far the biggest bang for the buck (by far) has been insulating the ceilings, have knocked out three rooms (two bedrooms and kitchen). Have one more room to go (another bedroom) that will get insulation added to the ceiling. Unfortunately, a good portion of the house isn't setup in a way that we can easily add insulation to the ceiling. Have a long term plan of insulating the roof after we re-roof, which would help keep our attic space warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer.

If this is temporary, I would just buy a little plug in electric radiator.

Yeah, that's what we're doing now. Not really thrilled with it as it's not programmable, fairly hot (not really hot enough to do damage, but hot enough to hurt), and not real stable if it got pulled over.

Just noticed you're in Medford, Go Ducks (I grew up in Eugene, live in Portland now.)

I love my Ducks!

 

[BattleWagon]

Is this what you're thinking of?

Electric Floor Heating by Danfoss LX : Pacific Northwest U.S. market

Looks like that is only for tile/hardwood, not carpet.

no I was thinking about this...

The Com-Pak Max: The professional's choice for smaller areas

has a remote t-stat and a fan.


what I think would be really great, especially if the house is not already plumbed for forced air would be a "ductless mini split." Super efficient, pretty affordable and you could add one or two more as you can, just make sure you complete the rest of your weatherization to maximize their efficiency.

everything you've done sounds great, nice job.

go ducks.

 

[Ebag333]

what I think would be really great, especially if the house is not already plumbed for forced air would be a "ductless mini split." Super efficient, pretty affordable and you could add one or two more as you can, just make sure you complete the rest of your weatherization to maximize their efficiency.

Looked at the ductless mini split. Would work for the main portion of the house as it's really open, but for the addition (two bedrooms and a bath) wouldn't work very well, too broken up.

I'd like to duct the whole house so I can install a whole house evaporative cooler. (Already have the cooler too, found one for $100 that's like new.) We run a small window evap cooler in the summer, dropped our monthly electric bill by about $100-$150, and our house is far more comfortable. Of course our alternative was a small window style AC unit (that's actually hard mounted into the wall), really expensive to run and pretty much only cooled the one room.

The goal is to duct the evap cooler to all the rooms, then have a whole house fan centrally located to pull air from the house to the attic. Get a double bonus of cooling the house and attic. Since we'd have the ducting in place, a gas furnace seemed to be the best bang for the buck for heating.

We can run ducting without too much trouble (easy floor access to all the rooms), but it's all just time and money, right?

everything you've done sounds great, nice job.

Thanks. It's been an adventure. We've had to redo pretty much everything PO's have done. I'm half surprised that the is still living there, especially after being pregnant with no kitchen (washing dishes in the bathtub, yay!). Though that one was her fault, since she did light it on fire.

 

[snowboardonsnow]

I'm a electrician (not that it matters) don't need to get into all the ways you CAN do it, we are about to have a baby so I know what getting the house ready feels like. Obviously heat pumping the the whole house is the way to go. But what you need for now is to just replace it with a base board of the same size. One of the child safe ones that are filled with fluid and protected from little fingers.
Cadets get to hot, regular base boards too. My wife made me yank the baseboards and put in force air with strip heat yikes don't wanna see that bill. Talked her into running the pellet stove one more year and using the forced are fan to circulate. Save up and we will throw in the pump next year. Baby is due in Dec! Our first.

 

[Ebag333]

But what you need for now is to just replace it with a base board of the same size. One of the child safe ones that are filled with fluid and protected from little fingers.

Got a recommendation on a brand you like?

Baby is due in Dec! Our first.

Congrats!

 

[snowboardonsnow]

Cadet has one I think called "soft heat" they may be longer for the same watts can't remember and you will probably pay a bit more. If you really want to be feel safe you can also put a 'child safe baseboard cover' over it. If you Google that you should find some stuff.

 

[Ebag333]

Sweet, found a bunch by 'em. Looks like those will fit the bill nicely.