Diesel gas argument

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When I was considering purchasing another 80 I had a couple of options I pondered. 1. A stock diesel 80 series. 2. A 6bt swapped 80 series. 3. A LS powered 80. Purpose of the vehicle was mostly a daily driver, tow decently, be nice and civil on the street just cruising. The first 2 options I almost pulled the trigger on.
I bought my 92 fj80 5.3 LS swapped 80 for 3500 bucks. It was a bare bones basket case swap, I should have just started from scratch. Anyway now its approaching being mostly finished I really enjoy it. It has a tundra muffler, so its quiet and sounds just like a new 5.7 tundra. All the detailed stuff works-AC, Cruise, emissions are hooked up, all the stock gauges and shift lights work etc. It is such a nice driving cruiser, and I still have wind coming in because I don't have all the trim back in so will get even better. I would argue that it drives about equally as nice as a new tundra. My first recorded mpg was 18. It is such a easy motor to work on, it blows the 1fz away when it comes to ease of maintenance and repair. My oil pan gasket is leaking, looking at it, it looks like it will take me an hour to do the gasket. Both valve cover gaskets are also leaking, thats about 20 minutes per side if your really slow. Their is so much more room in the engine compartment you feel like you could put some luggage in their. I did everything on this cruiser myself except for paint. All in, including purchase price, shipping it to my place from across country, having it painted, adding elocker axles, upgrading from 700r4 to 4l60e, adding all the details to the swap, I am into it grand total about the same amount as buying a stock 150k mile locked 40th anniversary 80 off of classifieds.
A LS swap is totally worth it. If you have doubts of your abilities to do the swap, just drop it off at Proffitts and have them do it for 25k. People buy trd pro 4runners for 50k all the time. Even a bare bones new 4runner is over 30k. A LS swapped locked 80 will run circles around a trd pro 4runner/tacoma, and be cheaper and more fun even if you pay for the swap to be done. A LS will have more things go wrong with it than a 1fz. But whatever goes wrong is a easy repair, parts are cheap/plentiful, and usually its not a catastrophic issue and can be driven on for a while. If my 5.3 ever does kick the bucket, I won't exactly be sad. Summit Racing has a built 6.0 LS rated 460hp long block for 3500 bucks. The external dimensions of v8 LS motors are all the same, and intake, accessories, headers etc will all swap right over. You can even go LS7 if your suicidal, and its the same size externally, but I don't think you could keep it straight on the road.
 
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To piggyback on that. You can essentially find anything you'll ever need, in a pinch, for an LS at the local Autozone. Its a worldwide platform so finding stuff to keep it running both stateside and overseas is an easy task.
 

scottryana

 
 
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LS is a very solid option. But like many have said it seems to lose some of it's "specialness" when you pull out a big beefy inline 6 for a plain V8. I am sure 350's are better in FJ40's but a poll in the 40 section would probably reveal that most would prefer to have the F/2F engine.
 
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One thing I don’t think people really consider is, in my opinion, some LS swaps are a downgrade in reliability. Sure they’ve come a long way, and the new ones shouldn’t have a problem making 200,000 miles. But the cheaper stuff doesn’t. 700r4 or 4L60 is not an upgrade by any stretch. I should say, this isn’t through my research for a swap. Just watching how long work trucks last. Never been impressed with gas GM engines or trannies.
 
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I love 2Fs, but that's where I stop with Toyota motors, those old motors are great tractor engines and are super easy to work on! I have seen numerous LS variants with more than 300K, all the while making more power and MPG than a 1FZ.

Heck I'll go one step further, I bet a 200k 5.3 still makes more power than a 1HDT thats brand new... (not that it matters)

Special'ness is probably in the "eye" of the beholder, purists be damned... ;)

I will also say this I work at 6500' and I live at 8500' so most motors are quite winded up here (unless equiped with forced induction), which is probably why we like bigger cube motors (in CO)... I would be willing to bet a 5.3 at elevation probably feels like a 1FZ at or near sea level...

Toyota auto's are great at the lower power they come behind... 4L60E and Toy trans are about the same in terms of toughness, other than 4L60E is alot cheaper and ALOT cheaper to hop up if needed... And it comes behind engines that have more output, and in vehicles that are heavier than an 80...

But I think its just fine to hate on GM all the same...
 
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I can speak to the 6L80e as that's what I'm going to run and have researched plenty;
Aside from heat-related failures (always run a beefy cooler) and tuning related failures from people removing Torque Management, mechanical failures generally only start to happen well above 450whp range.
Usually the 4-5-6 shaft in street/strip applications. A Circle-D or PATC billet shaft is $700.
After that 4-5-6 and 3-5-R clutches, again in street/strip applications. Couple hundred bucks in parts.

As for the LS3/L92, dropping valves does happen but it's somewhat rare. Swapping springs fixes this.

Back to the fuel discussion... :D
 
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There is no way a 4l60 is as tough as an A4xx, sorry but it isn’t even an argument. And sure, lots of GM v8’s have tons of miles. But how much has been done to them? My 1fz has 250,000 miles plus and has never been opened. One of our 3fe’s had over 400,000 with only a valve adjustment and venhad two other 3fe’s well north of 250,000 with no work. Same for the respective tranny’s. I’ve personally never seen a GM that can say the same without opening things up. Again, I should say these are work vehicles, not pampered DD’s. Now I’m not a Toyo nazi, I’m changing my 1FZ out soon, but I think there’s a good reason so many people are devoted to the LC.
 
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There is no way a 4l60 is as tough as an A4xx, sorry but it isn’t even an argument. And sure, lots of GM v8’s have tons of miles. But how much has been done to them? My 1fz has 250,000 miles plus and has never been opened. One of our 3fe’s had over 400,000 with only a valve adjustment and venhad two other 3fe’s well north of 250,000 with no work. Same for the respective tranny’s. I’ve personally never seen a GM that can say the same without opening things up. Again, I should say these are work vehicles, not pampered DD’s. Now I’m not a Toyo nazi, I’m changing my 1FZ out soon, but I think there’s a good reason so many people are devoted to the LC.
I wonder how well an A4xx would handle 400hp.
You've never seen a GM engine last 250k without being opened?
 
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Ask some of the guys running Cummins in front of them. Doubt they’re 400hp, but they sure outlast a 700r4 or 4l60 in front of them.

And no, I haven’t. Usually they get a new motor or a rebuild before then.
 
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No, you will not get 400k out of a LS motor or a 4l60e. 250k on a LS motor and thats about it, with some oil leaks developing and some coil packs going bad along the way. 4l60e mostly depends on what is in front of it and how its built and what components it has. It can be beefed up a lot with performance upgrades. My transmission had a basic rebuild, hopefully it will last me 100k plus. So that is a down side to going LS. Personally that doesn't bother me but it depends on what pro's and con's your looking for. So choose the motor swap that best suits you. A 6bt or 4bt should last 500k miles and get good fuel mileage, so that might be a better option for you if longevity is important to you. I personally think my 80 will be useful to me with a LS compared to the 3fe but I have only run a tank or two of fuel through it so I can't give a conclusive answer of my personal experience yet.
 

Tank5

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I recently purchased a 6bt Cummins/NV4500 converted 80 series, I have only had it for about a month now and love it for the reasons I bought it. I purchased it more out of a practicality and as an effort to consolidate vehicles. I purchased it to replace my 09 Tundra tow / DD rig and what was to be my fj45 trail overlanding rig. I don't tow a lot but needed something that would work for what I do tow and I also wanted it to work as a good overlanding / DD rig my wife will ride in. The 6bt 80 fit those needs. I really dislike changing out my daily drivers so it was important to me I get something I would hold onto for a while. Interestingly enough I did not care much for the Tundra. It was nice but just felt too modern and disposable to me.

I considered the imported Diesel 80's but did not feel like they would work as well for towing. I have also had a non-US Diesel before and hated that when it went down the wait period for replacement parts was usually long. I also couldn't rely on any local shops to work on it. The 6bt parts can be found much more easily in the us market and any good diesel shop should be familiar with it if I needed to take it in.

I also looked at an LS swapped 80 and a lot of the same can be said about them in regards to any good shop being able to work on it and parts availability. I decided the resale value (should I ever,) longevity, and simplicity on the 6bt was better.

So far I have gotten from 17.5-19MPG with the 6bt/NV4500/80 tcase with OD gears, 4.11s and 35" tires during mixed driving. When towing the 45 I got right around 14mpg. I just added 37" tires and have not run through a tank with them so I do not have any numbers but the 6bt is not phased by them. These numbers are not that much different than what I got with my 09 Tundra with a 5.7L with 35s and stock gears it got 18-19 mixed driving and 11-14 towing depending on highway speeds. The Tundra just felt huge to me and it would not fit down some of the forest roads I would like to drive on. It definitely felt a lot better when towing though which makes sense.

Gas or Diesel it is not that one is so much better than the other. I think it just comes down to the owners intended use and personal experience and preference. Well, I would include wallet size too, as in my experience a diesel rig in equal comparison to a gas rig always seems to cost more.

I have a dream to swap a 2uz into an 80 to have beside my 6bt 80 so I can have the best of both worlds. I know the 2uz does not compare to the LS in specs. but it is plenty for me as a DD and overlanding rig.
 

Tank5

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Has anyone done a 6bt swap with 80 transmission?
The original owner of the 80 I bought had built it with an Auto Trans. He ran it for about 12k miles and decided to have it swapped to the NV4500. I was told he did the swap just because he decided he would rather have the manual.
 

thatcabledude

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One thing I don’t think people really consider is, in my opinion, some LS swaps are a downgrade in reliability. Sure they’ve come a long way, and the new ones shouldn’t have a problem making 200,000 miles. But the cheaper stuff doesn’t. 700r4 or 4L60 is not an upgrade by any stretch. I should say, this isn’t through my research for a swap. Just watching how long work trucks last. Never been impressed with gas GM engines or trannies.
Driving LS powered work trucks that I couldn't care less about and only got oil changes when there was time for it is what got me off the Toyota reliability kool-aid. It's not the 80s anymore. GM engines are WAY up in quality and reliability and Toyota quality as a whole has tapered off. I really hate to say it, but s*** happens.

Two 4.8/ 4l60 2wd Silverados made it to 400k in my family. Both were work trucks on the highway a lot, but they made it with basic maintenance.

Anyhow. Fuel mileage.. with the 5.3 I see 15mpg mixed driving whether I baby it or romp on it
 

SNLC

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Here is what I have DD...

FJ60 with a v8
FJ80 with a v8
100-series, stock
5VZ Taco with a S/C and much more
70-series N/A diesel
Nissan Patrol turbo diesel

And now, I am DD a 93 80 with the 1FZ. I always avoided the 1FZ and now I have confirmed why. I don't like it. a TD is great but cost is high to get into one.

At the end of the day, v8 is the only way to go imho. They make Cruisers fun to drive, they get ok mpg, cheap and easy to work on, good power. I am not a fan of 90's era v8's though, got to me late 90's for me to even consider it. I just don't see any reason to do a swap to something with a dizzy and a funky FI system. Cost to do a swap though is relevant, it is not cheap unless you go the cheap route and even then still not real cheap.

80-series is just about my favorite platform for any Cruiser but man the 1FZ is bleh. I am going to nurse the one I have along for as long as needed and swap to a v8 as soon as possible.


Cheers
 

alia176

 
 
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Nothing sounds better than a V8. :)
No truer words have ever been said my brotha!! When I did the V8 conversion in one weekend, aka purchase a 4.7 4runner, I couldn't wait to do the exhaust/headers/etc. That V8 is so silky smooth with a set of DT headers and a free flow exhaust.
 
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