Deep thoughts... (1 Viewer)

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My opinion

Just my 2 cents from another newbie:

I'm not a member yet b/c I don't see much Houston activity. I want to join the state club, just havn't due to other schedule conficts with the club events. It seems like it's primarily a Dallas club tho. The Houston chapter doesn't post much about their meetings or how to get new guys out to them. There isn't much going on with LSLC in this town as far as I can see. I know of 4 or 5 guys with FJ's at NASA alone, but none of them are members, probably for the same reasons as me.

IMO, you have to get info out to the troops. If they aren't informed, they won't show up, and new guys won't join.

Any Houston guys that want to chime in? Feel free.
 
You're right. Houston has historically been slow for LSLC. There's another Cruiser club there that's fairly active.
I know of at least 3 LSLC members in Houston. The 4 of you together would make a kickass chapter. :D
 
BrettinSanAntonio said:
Chris, the Terlingua Chili Festival is always the first weekend of November but the second weekend of November is good too (my traditional weekend). Let's do a big club trip. I'll leave the snake gathering tools at home.
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I really don't give a rat's a$$ when we go back to Terlingua....I just want to go. I'll go in September and November if someone wants to go with me. I don't know if it was timing or what, but a lot of people talked about how much they would love to go to Terlingua, but when it came down to it only 3 cruisers went....

My only issue in going wheeling lately is that I have such wonderful days off....Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday...woo hoo. Other than that, I'd go to all the dang events. However, I will try to make as many others as possible, only my vacation time is limited.

I guess I'm a 2, 3, 4, and 5 type personality.... I'm not much of a collector.


P.S. Brett.....bring the snake charmer kit....that was fun. If you don't, Todd will just shoot it from point blank range, with a shotgun, on rocky terrain.....and put an eye out.
 
Snake Charmer kit?? I have the one on the left. :D
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TinStar said:
My only issue in going wheeling lately is that I have such wonderful days off....Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday...woo hoo. Other than that, I'd go to all the dang events. However, I will try to make as many others as possible, only my vacation time is limited.
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I feel your pain. I work 6 on, 3 off. My schedule is all over the place but at least I usually end up with 1 1/2 weekend days off a month
CAS
 
I have said this before, and I will say it again.... I think the club should put on some beginner clinics.

Telling us beginners that you will take us on some easy trails is just not good enough. Heck, Aggie Hiway is rated easy, right?

I did my very first wheeling on Aggie Highway at Roundup last march. I bought a couple of how to books, read them, but they did a lousy job of preparing me. Bob Devereux rode shotgun with me to tutor me. I have owned my 60 for 22 years, read the books, and watched and photographed you guys wheel for years, but 10 minutes into my first real wheeling experience, Bob was yellinig at me to quit using my clutch and how to lug my engine. I had no idea that that was a necessary technique. None at all! How and when to use your pedals is so crucial. I learned a lot that day (but have probably arleady forgotten it!). But I can't learn that in a book, nor can I learn it by watching people wheel, nor can I learn it by following others and following the directions of my spotter. Wheeling just doesn't come as naturally to some of us as it does to some of you.

That is why beginner clinics are needed. Unlike leading a beginner friendly ride, a beginner clinic caters to the needs of the beginner and ONLY to the beginner... not only to his need to learn, but his/her need to overcome his/her fears. This is best done in an environment that is all about the beginner, so he/she doesn't feel pressure and can admit how inept he/she is. And only in a beginner clinic can you get out, go over the obstacle that you are learning on, then get back in your vehicle and try it over and over again till you get it right. This kind of learning environment, where the needs of the beginner rule, and where the opportunity to explain the basics, to demonstrate the basics, and then give the beginner the opportunity to repeat what he just learned till he/she gets it right, instill confidence and enthusiasm in the sport.

I know this because I have been the only mountain bike instructor for the largest mountain bike club in the country, the Dallas Off Road Bicycle Association (dorba.org). I have been teaching about 8 beginner and 6 advanced skills clinics a year for the past 3 years. These clinics have been hugely successful. And they are seen by our board as a great way to grow the membership. I see no reason why these clinics couldn't be done in conjunction with the TTR club. Oh, and taking on the job of leading a beginner clinic is actually a very rewarding experience. I liked it so much I developed my advanced skills clinics that focus on specific types of obstacles we face on mountain bikes. Leading the clinics actually rejuvenated my interest in biking. And I have learned a lot from them myself. Sometimes I have guest instructors to teach skills that I want to learn.

I too would like to see more mild rides. I don't want to alter my truck any more than I already have (maybe add some sliders). I do not want to damage my precious 60. And that includes getting scratches on it (pinstripes) from bushes and tree branches.

I think that the Big Bend Trip sounds great. That is my kind of wheeling. Going from point to point and enjoying the natural beauty and the history of an area....... and not just see how extreme you can get in a a 4 wheel drive park (not that there is anything wrong with that).

I also think we need to put more club flyers and old Toyota Trails magazines on Land Cruisers when we see them in our daily lives. I did that religiously, but have run out of magazines. Didn't there used to be some flyers on the old web page that we could print out for this use?
 
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You're right on point Chris.

Doc Troutman and I were discussing the need for instruction and mentoring for beginners during GSMTR. Speaking for Doc, he's very passionate on this issue. ;) I promised to help if he wants to lead a Newbie run at the next Round Up.

Another point you made is important to me as well. Folks are different. We all have to remember that some folks wheel hardcore, some lite, and some prefer to stay on the pavement.

I'm happy to help if Lone Star wants to prepare some basic Wheeling Rules or concepts. We can invite beginners to practise near camp in Clayton, Gilmer, or Katemcy.
Thanks Chris!
Happy Trails! N
 
chris777 said:
I also think we need to put more club flyers and old Toyota Trails magazines on Land Cruisers when we see them in our daily lives. I did that religiously, but have run out of magazines. Didn't there used to be some flyers on the old web page that we could print out for this use?
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I agree!!! I saw an urban camo painted 60 at the Walmart in Mesquite yesterday. It was lifted and looked trail ready. I don't know if it was a member rig or not, but I wanted badly to put a business card or flyer on it. If they are not a member, they should be.

I think that we need to prepare for new members should we decide to get flyers to put on rigs we come across. Have more trips planned, some clinics, and tech support. If people get the flyer and become interested enough to show up, we need to be ready to get them involved and have them enjoy being in the club.

Again, my .02 worth.. (once again it was 1.5 but I rounded up)
 
Y'all are right of course. We did a class once a few years ago in Clayton and it was well received. I am gonna try and put something together. Butch taught the previous class and he may still have the materials we used. I'm trying to think of a place not too far away where we could do this in an afternoon. That's easier (for me anyway) to plan out rather than a whole weekend. We could certainly do both though. I'm open to suggestions. Maybe an afternoon in Gilmer is in order.

The run we're planning to Clayton in the middle of July is an easy run. I've never been back there but I understand any 4x4 can run those roads. As with any run, if you get to a section you are anxious about, there are plenty of folks there to help. We do everything possible to keep damage from happening.

I also recommend going to Terlingua/Big Bend if Chris gets another group together. Or even if he doesn't, it's easy enough to go out there and explore.

And really, almost any TLCA event offers something for everyone. Another one I've attended that's a lot of fun for stock trucks is the Black Hills Cruiser Classic in July. I'm planning on going back to this one next year.
 
the best way to start a clinic is to start creating an outline. I also think that is would be good to go to some place that had specific obstacles... like going UP a ledge, and going DOWN a ledge. Each student should have a good spotter, and an instructor in the passenger seat. the passenger seat instructor would only need to get in there while that student is going over an specific obstacle, then the instructor could get into the next beginner truck in line. If the student does not do a good job, then he needs to do it over and over till he gets that obstacle right.

I went up a ledge at the entrance to Cotton Bales. I gave it the gas to bump my front wheels over the ledge, but didn't let off on the gas and got going too fast. Ended up with a broken motor mount. Everyone, including my tutor, just expected me to know to get off the gas between the front wheel bump and the rear wheel bump. Now I KNOW to get off the gas between the two. But how was I to know that before? I sure hope the next time I can do it right. I actually think that this technique could be practiced on a city curb. You could get your timing down. So don't think that we need to go to some cool place for a beginner clinic. A beginner clinic could be held on just a few acres if it had the right obstacles or the right obstacles were somehow manufactured. Not sure if this is feasilbe or not for our big trucks, but its an idea that should at least be considered. For my wheelie drop clinic, I created these ramps in Dallas on a small tract of land where we hold beginner clinics:

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see how I have my students progress from a 2 inch drop to a 2 foot drop in increments? that builds confidence. they get there timing right on the 2 inch drop and there is no penalty for failure. That is why a mere curb would work to get your timing right when teaching someone how to bump there truck up a ledge.

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i'd be down for helping teach something like this. was a time i taught lots of guys how to wheel, some who were out for the first time.
being cautious for and of the needs of the driver was always the top priority.
doc was one of the guys i helped get a feel, and john winstead. there are more. people who came out to icbm, and either didn't want to damage the truck, or who just had no idea of what they and the rig were truly capable of.
you guys want somebody to teach something like this, i'd sure like to offer my services.
you guys know what i'm capable of. and i still watch a newbie tackle his first obstacle, and get a big ol' kick out of it. even done this with nick, too.
if i can help put something like this together, let me know.
i was developing something like this for when the fjc came out, but i just couldn't get anybody that wanted to help me get it started. i'll do it again, if you guys like.
i had already lined up a toyota dealership that was willing to help spread the word, and can easily get them back on board. just say the word.
 
I'm working on getting us a place where we can do some simple obstacles and go over some basics of 4-wheeling. We have lots of good information that will get everybody off to a good, safe start and allow them to start gaining experience. The situation where you broke your motor mount is something that you just have to get a feel for. Every situation is different.

Part of the class will be to impart the understanding that damage and breakage is a common part of what we do, even on 'easy' trails and roads. So avoiding problems is one part of the class, and dealing with problems is another.
 
JasonH said:
I'm working on getting us a place where we can do some simple obstacles and go over some basics of 4-wheeling. We have lots of good information that will get everybody off to a good, safe start and allow them to start gaining experience. The situation where you broke your motor mount is something that you just have to get a feel for. Every situation is different.

Part of the class will be to impart the understanding that damage and breakage is a common part of what we do, even on 'easy' trails and roads. So avoiding problems is one part of the class, and dealing with problems is another.
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Wow, Great Thread.

Jason has hit on something that everybody needs to pay careful attention to. Dealing with problems when they arise.

Once you realize what the vehicle is capable of and lose the fear to test it's limits, stuff is going to break. Wheeling is fun. Fixing somebody else's broke junk is not as fun. Luckily nobody looks to me to fix anything. :grinpimp: We are fortunate however, that there are those in the club who can fix anything, and they usually get called in to rescue those of us who can't. Make sure you are not one to take advantage of them.

With that being said, part of the learning process needs to include what tools, spare parts, safety equipment, etc. needs to be with each vehicle and what might be divided up by the group.

Chad
 
For a location might I suggest we work on finding a someplace in the local area if possible.
Perhaps someone with a contact in the LR or Jeep community might have line on a location that could work.
I like Gilmer and it is a more than suitable location but I think it is a little far for a day trip.
I'll try to drive out to the Marshall Creek OHV area west of Grapevine next week to see if it might be a suitable location. (unless some else has been out there recently?)
 
When I was in Utah, living right next door to the mountains, I still had to drive 1-3 hours to get to the designated/legal off-road areas. We'd average 2 hours one way for each day trip. You just have to get up in the morning and get going is all, or leave Friday night and camp out then leave Saturday evening when it gets dark, so I could get to church the next morning.

I'd love to go check out BMRA some time this month. What's planned for June anyway?
 
when planning my bike skills clinics, I try to choose the closer trails instead of the far away trails. The reason is that I want to maximize participation and maximize the number of volunteers that show up. No one wants to go to all the trouble of putting on a clinic without getting maximum participation, because that way you are less likely to need to repeat it as soon. . Of course I realize that there might not be any trail coser than BMRA or Clayton. But if there is anyway it could be held on a piece of land nearby, with manufactured obstacles, or repurposed obstacles, I think you would have more pariticipation. The idea is to learn, having fun learning is ok, of course, and likely, but definitely secondary.

Is the area just west of 360 completely out of the question? I know lots of people wheel there. I wasn't able to read the article linked above at Toyota Trail Riders site about the current legal state of wheeling there, because it was password proteced. what does it say? I am under the impression that the trails east of 360 are the ones they were forbidding anwyone to wheel. I have noticed that the trails east of 360 no longer have those big No Tresspassing signs up.

There are some trail in the southwest intersection of 820 South and 35W. Anyone know about those trails?

also, if this beginner clinic has to be 3 hours away, doesn't clayton have more variety of obstacles?
 
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